View Full Version : R5 GTT 172 Project
Ok, thought it was about time that I added some information to the project section as to my recent start of a 172 conversion into the my little R5 the only reason for the conversion is I felt I ha got as much out of my C1J as possible and fancied a change so i have gone for a newer bigger engine with the intention to eventually turbo it.
Some pics in here http://www.rtoc.org/files/?path=Technical%20Files/James5%20-%20172%20Conversion/ (http://www.rtoc.org/files/?path=Technical%20Files/James5%20-%20172%20Conversion/) will add more as i progress. I plan to be up and running fully by January 2009 to attend a www.cliosport.net (http://www.cliosport.net) R&R day @ chobham
Many thanks to Scoff & Ashy for the all advice.
tonesGTT
22-11-2008, 14:27
Nice one bud. Im sure this will be cool when its done.
Happy b-day btw :beer:
Nice one bud. Im sure this will be cool when its done.
Happy b-day btw :beer:
Cheers matey:)
Good luck matey, getting the bits together is the hardest bit. Once thats done it'll be a doddle :) It'll be fecking loud tho if you do go for the sidey!! :eek:
Happy Birthday :agree:
Good luck matey, getting the bits together is the hardest bit. Once thats done it'll be a doddle :) It'll be fecking loud tho if you do go for the sidey!! :eek:
Happy Birthday :agree:
Cheers for the Happy Birthday:D
Got all the bits together now it's just a case as you say putting it together got myself a different fuel rail to use today whilst down the scrappie needs a little modifiing but should be good.
Going to see what the 172 lump is like with the powerflow sidey if it is really loud I may change.
Modified Alternator setup
looking good :)
you can use a 16v clio rail too. you'd still need to make brackets.
you not using standard injectors then ? I thought you were using standard managment.
looking good :)
you can use a 16v clio rail too. you'd still need to make brackets.
you not using standard injectors then ? I thought you were using standard managment.
Yeah am going to be using the standard rail and injectors when in NA form but just gathering bits for the turbo conversion when I come across them.
iv just sold 4 wossner pistons i bought when i was thinking of doing this , only got 100 quid as well:ashamed:
Cool, I'm interested as I'm doing the same starting in the next couple of weeks :)
All the alternator bracket stuff adds up, can't you just use the R5 GTT alternator and bracketory?
I may have to bite the bullet on the GTX front engine mount GTX front engine mount plate unless I can get lucky at a scrappy
Cool, I'm interested as I'm doing the same starting in the next couple of weeks :)
All the alternator bracket stuff adds up, can't you just use the R5 GTT alternator and bracketory?
I may have to bite the bullet on the GTX front engine mount GTX front engine mount plate unless I can get lucky at a scrappy
The Alt brackets and mounts have cost a fair few ££'s to be honest I could prob have done some PMT work as you could prob drill out the standard GTT front mount bracket to fit the F4R block.
But with the Alt arms / brackets it will prob be just a case of playing about with what you can get to fit if not you will need to go down the same line as me or the clio 172 cup setup which is similait just different brackets and costs alot more than I paid for the GTX versions.
Matt Cole
24-11-2008, 18:28
I wish i could have just gone and bought an alternator bracket for the 225 lump! Took me half a day of grinding and fettling to get something right and lined up to work!!!!
Looking good there bud, nice work
As Scoff pointed out to me when i powder coated my plenum, you need to make sure the contact points on the bottom of the coil pack are clean metal to metal :)
As Scoff pointed out to me when i powder coated my plenum, you need to make sure the contact points on the bottom of the coil pack are clean metal to metal :)
:ashamed::cooter: Good point matey
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Thats the nuts james. keep up the good work
Renault Part Numbers Used List - (Will add to the list once I find the rest of the Invoices:cooter:).
77 00 866 483 - £2.09 inc VAT - Cable Throttle body to Inlet Manifold Plenium Gasket,
82 00 268 626 - £37.06 inc VAT Clio 172 Fuel inlet Pipe,
82 00 031 832 - £44.17 inc VAT - Upper Alternator Block Adaptor,
77 00 718 613 - £23.50 inc VAT – Long Zinc Alternator Bracket (Adjustable),
77 03 101 094 - £3.90 inc VAT- Alternator long bolt,
77 03 101 073 - £1.56 inc VAT - Alternator Bolt washer,
Finally managed to sort out the phase 2 plenium with the phase 1 cable throttle body with some drill and tap work and fits perfect now, just got to get the engine in the car now:D
good to hear james keep up the good work:)
Andrew Cooke
01-12-2008, 21:22
What's the sticking out corroded thing on the front of the engine? do you need it?
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/attachment.php?attachmentid=569&d=1227871749
Adey aka Ewok
01-12-2008, 21:48
fuel rail guard, and no you dont need it really, ment to protect the plastic rail on a front impact in the clio
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/attachment.php?attachmentid=569&d=1227871749
How much for the bike???? :cooter:
Andrew Cooke
01-12-2008, 22:03
fuel rail guard, and no you dont need it really, ment to protect the plastic rail on a front impact in the clio
excellent:cool:
Andrew Cooke
02-12-2008, 21:19
who jiggered the ECU? Did you get a drawing showing which bits of the loom you needed or could ditch?
who jiggered the ECU? Did you get a drawing showing which bits of the loom you needed or could ditch?
Unfortunalty when it comes to the wiring / loom it's going to be a case of me playing with a multimeter and power probe:scared::eek:, wiring I am not to bad at all I need to prob get it running is permanent ecu live, ignition ecu live, cranking signal, fuel pump wire (from relay on 172 phase 1 engine loom) then the rest will just be the gauges,etc...
ECU apparently demobilised by RStuning according to the receipt will find out when I finally try to start the car if it works as I purchased it used.
James, shame your not closer by, I'd be pretty interested in having a nose inside that ECU, making some comparisons with a standard one!
Andrew Cooke
02-12-2008, 22:08
try and document what you do with the loom. You never know, it may be of interest to someone.
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
RTOC rent boys:sad2: So is this what you and fido get up to then:cooter::D
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
RTOC rent boys:sad2: So is this what you and fido get up to then:cooter::D
Come on Dave don't be shy you love it to ;):cooter:
James, shame your not closer by, I'd be pretty interested in having a nose inside that ECU, making some comparisons with a standard one!
I will open it up and get some pics uploaded in the next couple of days, I also have a standard phase 2 ECU aswell I will open and get some pics.
try and document what you do with the loom. You never know, it may be of interest to someone.
I am one step ahead Andrew and am doing a how to guide as I go along for the N/A conversion and will be noting all of it to help others out as I doubt very much I will be the last person to do this conversion.
And a big thanks to Scoff and Ashy for all the advice and help they have given me.
Nice one james. It's probably not a visible alteration, I'd be interested in knowing what the programmable devices are inside of it. Or, it may be really easy, and it'll be something visible :)
Nice one james. It's probably not a visible alteration, I'd be interested in knowing what the programmable devices are inside of it. Or, it may be really easy, and it'll be something visible :)
Well just taken both the ECU cases of to have a look the 1st pic is the Phase 2 ECU and the 2nd is the Phase 1 ECU both look different in layout but I can't see that it looks like they have been touched physically.
james, can you give me the make and part numbers of the ECU's you have ?
I've got a spare phase 1 ECU in the garage if you wanted to have a play?
Finally managed to sort out the phase 2 plenium with the phase 1 cable throttle body with some drill and tap work and fites perfect now, just got to get the engine in the car now:D
This is one of the issues I need to deal with.. I've got the later 172 engine with electric throttle body and need a cable operated one.. so did you use a volvo cable throttle body?
This is one of the issues I need to deal with.. I've got the later 172 engine with electric throttle body and need a cable operated one.. so did you use a volvo cable throttle body?
Hi mate I am also using a later engine 2004 plate I ended up using the phase 1 172 cable tb by drilling and tapping the phase 2 plenum. The volvo jobby needs the same modification to the phase 2 plenium but you also need to modify the accelerator cam on the volvo by welding the lower part of the gtt accelerator cable fitment on . Scoff has fitted one if you need advice I am sure he will help
james, can you give me the make and part numbers of the ECU's you have ?
Pic 1 is Phase 2
Pic 2 is Phase 1
I've got a spare phase 1 ECU in the garage if you wanted to have a play?
ooh maybe ?
james, can you verify there is a 29F200 device on the pcb, it should have 44 pins, probably made by AMD or Fujitsu.
ooh maybe ?
james, can you verify there is a 29F200 device on the pcb, it should have 44 pins, probably made by AMD or Fujitsu.
Just checked the phase 1 ECU and yeah AMD is written in it and it has 44 pins it is on the left of the big chip in th center.
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/attachment.php?attachmentid=600&d=1228260969
Same chip on the phase 2 aswell
But this time above the big chip in the centre
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/attachment.php?attachmentid=599&d=1228260969
Andrew Cooke
03-12-2008, 21:06
you gonna hack that ECU Scoff? http://bbs.scoobynet.com/images/smilies/norty.gif
thanks james. I could remove the immobiliser from that. that device is a flash/eeprom rom, it contains the immobiliser info.
ashy, if you don't mind me tinkering (and removing the immob) from that ecu then I'd like to have a go :)
you gonna hack that ECU Scoff? http://bbs.scoobynet.com/images/smilies/norty.gif
thats all that the tuners do, plenty of software about to do it, if you know where to look ! the software I have lists that ECU and the pcb pictures it has on file are the same as the ones james took. I haven't got a programmer for that fancy device though, my stuff is a bit old skool now. they're not mega bucks, I'd need to invest in one :)
james, it looks like both ph.1 and ph.2 are both hackable in the same way.
Andrew Cooke
03-12-2008, 21:30
thats all that the tuners do, plenty of software about to do it, if you know where to look ! the software I have lists that ECU and the pcb pictures it has on file are the same as the ones james took. I haven't got a programmer for that fancy device though, my stuff is a bit old skool now. they're not mega bucks, I'd need to invest in one :)
good to know.:innocent:
james, just to clarify. is it the ph.1 ECU that has been modified ? I'm reading that the sirius 32N (phase 1) ECU needs the rom editing aswell as an emulator making and installing. is there any sign's of phisical intervention ?
looks like the ph.2 is the easy one.
damn i didnt realise how much was involved in the 172 engine conversion, keep it full up 2date as im watching keen eyed :) best of luck
james, just to clarify. is it the ph.1 ECU that has been modified ? I'm reading that the sirius 32N (phase 1) ECU needs the rom editing aswell as an emulator making and installing. is there any sign's of phisical intervention ?
looks like the ph.2 is the easy one.
Yeah apparently the phase 1 ECU has been modified (it bloody should be) but I have got it in front of me apart and I cannot see any physical alterations to it:scratch::scared: Am getting a little concerned now. (Got to get engine in car and see)
The AMD chip number is
AM29F200BB
-70SE
0017FBB
1997 AMD
don't let it worry you james, it probably just means I havn't worked out how they've done it, yet. they have probably come up with a more exotic way of doing it, my way may just be the long way round so to speak.
The only way I am going to find out is when I plug it in to fire her up.:) Keep me posted on what you find out Chris:agree:
thanks james. I could remove the immobiliser from that. that device is a flash/eeprom rom, it contains the immobiliser info.
ashy, if you don't mind me tinkering (and removing the immob) from that ecu then I'd like to have a go :)
No probs i'll post it down with this adaptor!
Did you want the phase 2 1 aswell matey to play with??
ashy, stick that spare coolant sensor you have in too and I'll make you that converter we talked about.
james, that might be handy, I will do some more reading yet though because it's the phase 1 that I'm not sure about. If I get to a stage where I've bought a programmer then I'll give you a shout. :)
Well engine part in just won't mate up with gtt box will try again tomoz as bloody cold.
(Excuse the state of the rocker cover and the fuel rail cover which will not be staying will clean up rocker once I finally get it running).
Andrew Cooke
05-12-2008, 00:49
Well engine part in just won't mate up with gtt box will try again tomoz as bloody cold
you have moved the dowels?
you have moved the dowels?
I have removed the rear 1 as the front went on fine will remove the other over the next couple of days and see what happens apart from that it is pretty much in minus the inlet plenium as the bonnet wouldn't close with it on. Need to sort bonnet now:)
Andrew Cooke
05-12-2008, 13:10
I have removed the rear 1 as the front went on fine will remove the other over th next couple of days and see what happens apart from that it is pretty much in minus the inler manfold as the bonnet wouldn't close with it on. Need to sort bonnet now:)
you need to move both dowels, plus they are different to GTT ones, I forget how, but they are.
you need to move both dowels, plus they are different to GTT ones, I forget how, but they are.
I think this applies to me last night in the cold putting the engine in:rob:
Andrew Cooke
05-12-2008, 13:22
I think this applies to me last night in the cold putting the engine in:rob:
could have been worse, you could have been where I was; in a pub with an open fire. Actually, scratch that :laugh:
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Its looking good james. cant wate to see it turbo'd:)
LukeRobbo
09-12-2008, 23:41
Excellent project look forward to seeing it in action.
to take the engine out and the gearbox and mate the 2 together out of the engine bay
Best plan, be easier in the long run!
Can't wait to see this finished, gunna be fantastic, I know Scoff has done it already but his is an out an out drag car where as this will be used on the road, now that will be great
Can't wait to see this finished, gunna be fantastic, I know Scoff has done it already but his is an out an out drag car where as this will be used on the road, now that will be great
Cheers matey, Ashys done it before matey and his is used on the road.
Cheers matey, Ashys done it before matey and his is used on the road.
Ah didn't know that, still can't wait to see it up and running and hooning it round mallory at Nat Day next year
Best plan, be easier in the long run!
yeah, because the block is so big it's a pig to get it in and out with the gearbox on. I do it all in one too. even then its a bitch to get in without scraping stuff. leave all brackets off, alternator, manifold, rear engine mount, the lot!!
Going to go out now and have another go. It's so cold:( ohwell need it running as it's depressing seeing it sitting their.
Matt Cole
10-12-2008, 22:03
Going to go out now and have another go. It's so cold:( ohwell need it running as it's depressing seeing it sitting their.
Yer want to try it with a megane lump!!:D
Yer want to try it with a megane lump!!:D
I hope you're on a wireless connection from the garage!! chop chop, is it running yet?
Got the bar steward on:) But my engine crane will now not lift the engine high enough to get it back in the car:crap:. Ohwell enough for tonight will sort out crane in a couple of days I am fapping freezing now.
can you not just shorten your sling?
can you not just shorten your sling?
I have got the sling so short as it will go but for some reason it will not go as high as it used to when you pump the handle it does nothing it's as though know pressure to force the arm up anymore. Prob need some kind of bleed of lubricate replacement I have found the drain hole just no idea where you fill it up??? Clarke CFC1000 anyone got any idea??
Andrew Cooke
11-12-2008, 14:12
I have got the sling so short as it will go but for some reason it will not go as high as it used to when you pump the handle it does nothing it's as though know pressure to force the arm up anymore. Prob need some kind of bleed of lubricate replacement I have found the drain hole just no idea where you fill it up??? Clarke CFC1000 anyone got any idea??
turn upside down and fill the drain? you'll be low on fluid.
either low on fluid or the ram is knackered m8 had this with my one ended up getting the ram repaired by a local firm
Matt Cole
11-12-2008, 22:33
You need to keep the ram vertical and remove the rubber bung. Fill until fluid starts to come out of hole. Replace the bung and with the release valve kept open, pump the ram handle several times. keep pumping and release/close the valve slowly. See if it goes all the way up. When its up force the ram down while opening the release valve. That should bleed and prime the pump.:agree:
Got the fecker in @ last just come in as it is now raining, still got the driveshafts to put back in.
Kind of sorted the engine crane still dogey but managed away around it:)
Chris Hebden
17-12-2008, 14:10
Could you do me a huge favour and while you have the grill off measure the area infront of the rad as i am looking to put a grill mount in. If not thats fine i was planning on doing it at the weekend anyway! Looking really good by the way!
Picture 2 is of a Volvo T5 throttle Body
I need to change to the cable type throttle bodie, are there other throttle bodies that fit then? I've seem a couple on ebay one for an 850 and one for a v40 will either of these fit/do?
Cheers
Andy
850
http://i17.ebayimg.com/05/i/001/16/43/6b40_1.JPG
and the v40
http://i12.ebayimg.com/04/i/001/16/43/6efc_1.JPG
I need to change to the cable type throttle bodie, are there other throttle bodies that fit then? I've seem a couple on ebay one for an 850 and one for a v40 will either of these fit/do?
Cheers
Andy
850
and the v40
pm 4 you matey, the volvo TB will need accelerator linkage modifying / welding scoff uses this on his conversion both me and Ashy use the phase 1 172 TB on the phase 2 plenium
rs250nut
19-12-2008, 18:06
What size are valves on the 172 head?
Did you sort out the sprung bolts on the down pipe? I found one of them in my garage the other day, i could post it to you if you need it? I know it can be tricky without the little cups!! I could get you a second one made up aswell if you want a pair? Lettuce know marrow :)
Did you sort out the sprung bolts on the down pipe? I found one of them in my garage the other day, i could post it to you if you need it? I know it can be tricky without the little cups!! I could get you a second one made up aswell if you want a pair? Lettuce know marrow :)
I have got some very chunky bolts with some big washers just awaiting for a fellow RTOC member to post me some gtt ex springs as I have misplaced mine:( then all should be good exhaust is on at the mo without the ex springs.
Going to try and start some wiring tomorrow if I get some time
Ill get another cup made and send them down to you, got some old springs somewhere too, i'll see what I can dig out. PM me your address again marrow.
Ill get another cup made and send them down to you, got some old springs somewhere too, i'll see what I can dig out. PM me your address again marrow.
:cooter: pm your way matey:guitarhero:
Couple of update pics,
172 rad and fan in place (tight fit) looks like a slim line fan will be on the cards.
Many thanks to Ashy and Scoff for all the advice. Won't be long now as I have started the wiring so she should be started very soon.
Looking good matey, bet you cant wait to get it up and running... i loved mine when it was just NA. Went like stink and you could give it full beans without worrying about it blowing up!! Great on the track.
It is tight that rad, Mat C has one of those to go in with his 225, I bet he'll be interested in those pics!!
Gttnutter
24-12-2008, 11:56
looking good james..when are you hoping to turn it over?
I wish I could fit a rad as big as that. its getting there :)
Markey Mark (BD)
24-12-2008, 12:31
That is a chunky fan and shroud isn't it, the size of the rad doesn't look far off the size of my 19 16v one i have. I needed a slime line fan even with the volvo lump.
Scoff, you might be able to fit one in there if the intercooler was pulled slightly forward, thats one of the reason's why mines mount abit further out from the front panel.
Its looking good mate;)
Rob@Backyardracing
24-12-2008, 17:02
Good work James. Im loving all these projects on here :) some really good work going on in the club..:agree: keep it up chaps as its good to read....
is that a standard bonnet shut on there now mate?
Matt Cole
30-12-2008, 23:11
Looking good matey, bet you cant wait to get it up and running... i loved mine when it was just NA. Went like stink and you could give it full beans without worrying about it blowing up!! Great on the track.
It is tight that rad, Mat C has one of those to go in with his 225, I bet he'll be interested in those pics!!
I can't fit mine. Just not enough room. Alternator in the way. It may go in with some thought. Anyway, that rad does not look like a comfortable fit. If its fouling on anything i would make sure its securely fastened down. The plastic side housings on them rads are quite thin.
is that a standard bonnet shut on there now mate?
:ashamed:Yeah but no inlet plenium underneath, that is on the drivers seat awaiting arrival of 16v bonnet:D
:ashamed:Yeah but no inlet plenium underneath, that is on the drivers seat awaiting arrival of 16v bonnet:D
Been out and had a look at the bonnet today and to be honest looked at the standard bonnet it catches on 1 side of the inlet plenium with a bit of an angle grind I reckon I could get it to close with the plenium in place but then how much movement will there be from the engine with the standard bonnet angle grinded might be safer to use the 16v bonnet
Been out and had a look at the bonnet today and to be honest looked at the standard bonnet it catches on 1 side of the inlet plenium with a bit of an angle grind I reckon I could get it to close with the plenium in place but then how much movement will there be from the engine with the standard bonnet angle grinded might be safer to use the 16v bonnet
I was looking at mine today james, I have a solid rear engine mount which sits about 1" lower than the standard mount, it drops the whole plenum by about 0.5". I rekon with a the standard bonnet it would still catch the plenum (just) even with the throttle area machined down (which I guess is the bit you are talking about). with my engine on standard mounts a standard bonnet was a definate no-go. On my new engine mount (different gearbox) I've got it a little lower still, a standard bonnet might go.
point is, if you can be bothered making a new rear engine mount or modifying the black "V" shaped mount that bolts to the gearbox you might get away with it ? :)
I was looking at mine today james, I have a solid rear engine mount which sits about 1" lower than the standard mount, it drops the whole plenum by about 0.5". I rekon with a the standard bonnet it would still catch the plenum (just) even with the throttle area machined down (which I guess is the bit you are talking about). with my engine on standard mounts a standard bonnet was a definate no-go. On my new engine mount (different gearbox) I've got it a little lower still, a standard bonnet might go.
point is, if you can be bothered making a new rear engine mount or modifying the black "V" shaped mount that bolts to the gearbox you might get away with it ? :)
Cheers chris can't be arsed with any more work got a 16v bonnet on route cheers nayls
:D
bah, don't be lazy ;) I dropped mine down to try and keep the driveshafts parrallel with the floor, I had them perfectly level with the old gearbox. they sit a bit higher than I'd like now even after dropping the engine a little more. sump is actually lower than the subframe now, I'll have to be carefull on speed humps :D
bah, don't be lazy ;) I dropped mine down to try and keep the driveshafts parrallel with the floor, I had them perfectly level with the old gearbox. they sit a bit higher than I'd like now even after dropping the engine a little more. sump is actually lower than the subframe now, I'll have to be carefull on speed humps :D
Out of interest what front mounts do you use?
totally standard james, gsf ones.
R5 16v Bonnet now on so enough clearance for inlet plenium
Andrew Cooke
05-01-2009, 13:08
she's finished, ship her :agree:
Some more pics of progress to date some wiring to sort and need another cossie fuel pump:(:mad:
Pic 1 engine where @
Pic 2 Standard cossie pump against a phase 1 GTT pump
Pic 3 Modified T5 fuel rail with cossie injectors
Matt Cole
09-01-2009, 21:51
Nearly done mate. Days work by the looks of it.:agree:
R5 GTX front engine mount £26.00,
R5 GTX front engine mount plate £38.00,
I was looking for the GTX engine front mount from GSF but can only find one and it says all models was it a Renault only part? any chance of a part number :) and did you say it would be possible to fettle with the GTT mount plate so I could use the exisitng?
cheers
Andy
Car looks well :agree:
Those 16v bonnets are :badone: in the fitting and finish dep't though eh.
I was looking for the GTX engine front mount from GSF but can only find one and it says all models was it a Renault only part? any chance of a part number :) and did you say it would be possible to fettle with the GTT mount plate so I could use the exisitng?
cheers
Andy
The part was from Renault direct matey or if you have a local scrappy with some volvo F series 1.7 lumps in 440 etc..
7700716912 - Mounting Plate - £19.51 inc VAT
With ref to using the GTT plate not done it myself but you could prob place the engine in the car and place the gtt plate on the mount and drill an extra couple of holes into the plate so you could mount it to the 172 block may need a little more fettling than that. I purchased a new GTX plate from Renault but it was on delay for 2 weeks from france.
Car looks well :agree:
Those 16v bonnets are :badone: in the fitting and finish dep't though eh.
Have to agree do not like the 16v bonnet but it serving a purpose will hopefully look better once sprayed uptungy:)
can you re-drill the GTT mounting, I was doing it so often I made up a drill template for them. from memory one hole lines up. you need to tweek it a bit with a grinder to clear the bottom water pipe.
Prob could have had it running by now but stumped with the wiring and awaiting a brand new 044 fuel pump to turn up I will get their eventually.
can you re-drill the GTT mounting, I was doing it so often I made up a drill template for them. from memory one hole lines up. you need to tweek it a bit with a grinder to clear the bottom water pipe.
:agree: I did mine but I could only get 2 bolts in it! :disagree:
:agree: I did mine but I could only get 2 bolts in it! :disagree:
if I recall mate one of the bolts (left as you look at it ?) wants to sit on the ridge of the pressed plate. I ground the plate flat so the bolt could seat correctly. I get all 3 in like this.
if I recall mate one of the bolts (left as you look at it ?) wants to sit on the ridge of the pressed plate. I ground the plate flat so the bolt could seat correctly. I get all 3 in like this.
I decided to bite the bullet and order the part... for £20 it'll save me a bit of time :)
He recons the part will be in stock tomorrow.. we'll wait and see..
I decided to bite the bullet and order the part... for £20 it'll save me a bit of time :)
He recons the part will be in stock tomorrow.. we'll wait and see..
Have to agree that is pretty much why I purchased a load of new bits from Renault to save time.
You should get some pics up matey of your progress would be interesting to see how you are coming, are you doing this as a rear conversion or is it under the bonnet?
rear.. it would be too much work to do it normally ..if that makes sense :)
Still not running yet spent 2 hours with the car sorting incomplete bits out got perm live, ignition live, fuel pump is wired up everything seems to have power but I am unable to crank over as yet given up for now as to cold!
you can't get it to crank ? thats the easy bit surely :)
you can't get it to crank ? thats the easy bit surely :)
Starters buggered no noise or click going to try another starter I have as a spare that I know works:)
Well it's not the starter it's me being **** with electrics still can't get it to work:(
Well it's not the starter it's me being **** with electrics still can't get it to work:(
you need the battery bolted to the 13mm nut, a good earth to the block and a live to the spade connector when you want it to crank, thats it!
That's what I am going to do put some more earths on the block over the weekend
To wet to play outside with the car:(
So I have been in the shed and modified the alt bracket so it doesn't catch on the cross member
All left to do know sort engine earths and get some 12mm bore fuel line.
And a quick pic of the engine as she is at the mo
12mm bore line ? christ :D
12mm bore line ? christ :D
Yeah the cossie fuel pump has a 12mm inlet bore and an 12mm outlet
just reduce it down, alot of the bigger pumps are like that. 8mm line will be fine.
Keep up the good work james mate. you will get there in the end.:cool:
dave j gtt
26-01-2009, 05:28
8 mm copper pipe is cheap , sure its ok to use this, paint it with under seal when done . looks tidy.
Almost there just can't get the bitch to run at the mo :cry:
Starter engages, fuel pump sounding but nothing else is happening! oh well will try some more fettliong in a couple of days.
Going to check for spark if no spark looks like it could be my ECU not demobilised
does the fuel pump prime when you switch the key on ? does it then fire up again the moment you start cranking ?
does the fuel pump prime when you switch the key on ? does it then fire up again the moment you start cranking ?
Yes
No
I have the following which from what I thought is enough to get her running constant live, ignition live, fuel pump and starter motor the rest will be just gauges.
I have plenty of earths :D
i believe that if the ecu hasnt been decoded and u arent using the full 172 ignition system with key and everything then it wont work, the immobiliser will kick in. few people i know run this engine in their clios, i'll go investigate:)
yeah, could be the immo like coops is saying but I wonder if it would even let you prime the pump ? I would have guessed that it wouldn't do anything atall if it was an immo issue. maybe not ?
do you have a wiring diagram for it ? If you can post it up A) I'd find it quite helpfull since I don't have one and B) I'll go through it and tell you what I think you need to connect to what then you can compare with what you've done already
yeah, could be the immo like coops is saying but I wonder if it would even let you prime the pump ? I would have guessed that it wouldn't do anything atall if it was an immo issue. maybe not ?
do you have a wiring diagram for it ? If you can post it up A) I'd find it quite helpfull since I don't have one and B) I'll go through it and tell you what I think you need to connect to what then you can compare with what you've done already
I have thought about the ECU itself but it was supposedly demobilised by RS tuning which I am going to call up and see what they say.
With ref to the wiring the only guide I have got is attached which is an allocationf ECU inouts and outputs most of the work has been done by the use of multimeter, continuity tester.
172 Fuel pump relay -
Red - perm live
Yellow - ign live
white - output to pump
violet - trigger from ecu
According to the cliosport guys it should still crank if the immobiliser is active, just no fuel/spark.
According to the cliosport guys it should still crank if the immobiliser is active, just no fuel/spark.
yes but you said it's priming the fuel pump which tells me that atleast some of the ECU is awake.
if there was no immobiliser involved I'd have said look at your crank trigger to make sure it's OK and wired up properly, since if this doesn't work you won't get the pump running while you crank nor will you get a spark.
if there was no immobiliser involved I'd have said look at your crank trigger to make sure it's OK and wired up properly, since if this doesn't work you won't get the pump running while you crank nor will you get a spark.
Going to give RStuning a call on monday and see what they say ref the ECU has they demobilised it.:(
Just got some info back on cliosport ref the RS tuning ECU's -
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=390305
Apparently this member has heard of 'issues' with RSTuning decodes. They seem to require an emulator in addition to the decode almost as if the ECU will accept any imobiliser code, but it still needs *a* code, if that makes sense? iirc, both geesus and danlp6 had this issue
Beanie and I used www.ecuclinic.com (http://www.ecuclinic.com/) and it came back plug and play if it's any use to you.
I will speak with rstuning ans see what they say if not going to have to get it decoded properly with the ecuclinic
This is not looking good with the ecu:crap: scoff did you ever get to play with ashys phase 1 ecu if so what was the outcome
Well got some news ref the ECU from the bloke @ RS tuning whom done the work who is also a cliosport member. He confirmed that the ECU I have needs to have an emulator to get it demobilised appartently mine was virginilised:sad2:.
Anyone on here able to demobilise a phase 1 ECU???
I just get the starter wanting to go and the fuel pump primes that is it.
What do you mean by the starter wanting to go?
Does the engine turn over on the starter?
Starter is turning but no fuel or spark which is apparently what the immobilser does.
I am now consdering going standalone as I will have to do this in the future anyway just funds at the mo are a little low:(
Fancy a nice DTA E38 all mapped up with loom to suit a 172 ;)
Fancy a nice DTA E38 all mapped up with loom to suit a 172 ;)
I might, since there is a hammer with my ecu's name on it currently :laugh:
Well got some news ref the ECU from the bloke @ RS tuning whom done the work who is also a cliosport member. He confirmed that the ECU I have needs to have an emulator to get it demobilised appartently mine was virginilised:sad2:.
Anyone on here able to demobilise a phase 1 ECU???
That's a bit frustrating mate :(
Matt Cole
02-02-2009, 12:53
I might, since there is a hammer with my ecu's name on it currently :laugh:
There might be an E420b for sale if the 420c is going cheap?:D
That's a bit frustrating mate :(
Its a fecking pain in the arse it cost me over £100.00 to get that ECU and now to get it demobilised it's going to cost me over that :(. Should have gone standalone in the 1st place at this rate. Going to stick with the standard ECU for now and get it demobilised and when I go turbo hopefully go adaptronic.
Andrew Cooke
02-02-2009, 17:38
Its a fecking pain in the arse it cost me over £100.00 to get that ECU and now to get it demobilised it's going to cost me over that :(. Should have gone standalone in the 1st place at this rate. Going to stick with the standard ECU for now and get it demobilised and when I go turbo hopefully go adaptronic.
when you do that I might be interested in your ECU
There might be an E420b for sale if the 420c is going cheap?:D
it'll have had a hammer through it before I'm finnished with it ;) to be fair, I'm probably just asking a bit too much of it with what I'm trying to do with it and I'd need a top of the range DTA or better before I got anywhere near the features I want. I think I've found a solution to my issue anyway :cool:
Phase 1 172 ECU Demobilised (emulator) & group N map
is it running yet then... Chop Chop!!
Andrew Cooke
26-02-2009, 13:10
Phase 1 172 ECU Demobilised (emulator) & group N map
cripes, that all looks a bit delicate
allanr5gtt
01-03-2009, 22:32
well done with the conversion mate
seems you have to have a tungy grey r5 to have the conversion lol, 3rd 1 so far, many more to come im sure.
steves will b bak out this year, decided to get it bk up 2gether now so just the final bits to be done so shudnt b long now :yeah:
Had a little play with the R5 today as been out replacing brake pads on the Zafira GSI yet again (The thing seems to bloody eat them).
Anyway had the R5 battery on charge over night as I thought it was flat as I tried to start the car last night and nothing. So have given the battery a good few hours charge and to find out that this has made no difference = conclussion battery is fubbard going to try and jump with some leads later when i can be arsed now.
Only things left to do now is tidy up the wiring and connect up some of the dash gauges and obviously get a new battery.
Thought I would have another crack at the old girl tonight. Got the Zafira with Jump leads connected up and went for a turnover starter sounded but no fuel pump noise this is a little odd as it was at least sounding before I sent the ECU away going to go over my wiring to make sure all is OK:( anyday now she will be running
Blimey mate, is she still not going, you have the patience of a saint, i'd have thrown that ecu across the road, jumped in the Zaf & run it over a few times, then got onto Scoff or someone else about standalone :cooter:
If you need a hand you know where i am matey, i had all this with my old Rover when i stuck her on management, ballache, the map i put into the ex48 in the end only just got me to track n road :wasntme: Not that i'm offering to map anything like, just stand around drinking your tea :cooter:
Really getting tempted to get a sneaky project on the go:devil:
Keep it up matey ;)
Blimey mate, is she still not going, you have the patience of a saint, i'd have thrown that ecu across the road, jumped in the Zaf & run it over a few times, then got onto Scoff or someone else about standalone :cooter:
If you need a hand you know where i am matey, i had all this with my old Rover when i stuck her on management, ballache, the map i put into the ex48 in the end only just got me to track n road :wasntme: Not that i'm offering to map anything like, just stand around drinking your tea :cooter:
Really getting tempted to get a sneaky project on the go:devil:
Keep it up matey ;)
Patience has nothing to do with it nowadays its a lack of interest and when I get some interest I have a play then I loose interest again.
I am seriously considering going standalone but not sure if Lauren will let me spend much more on the R5.
Steve you know you want a project matey go on do it:D
Patience has nothing to do with it nowadays its a lack of interest and when I get some interest I have a play then I loose interest again.
I am seriously considering going standalone but not sure if Lauren will let me spend much more on the R5.
Steve you know you want a project matey go on do it:D
We'll end up having to rent a place together if i did mate, Lauren will kick you out & Kelly me :laugh:
I still may try though, just not sure which way to go, GTT with a different engine or clio turbo.. or something completely different..
Keep on with it though matey & if you fancy having a go sometime give me a shout, sometimes a fresh set of eyes can help (i hate wiring as well though:sad: )
steveR5GTT
07-03-2009, 16:32
looks like another nice conversion mate
keep with it defo great conversion to be done, neva had mine n/a as i brought mine with it already turbo charged, drives so smooth tho, mines runnin emerald management and neva had a single prob so mite be a worth while inverstment mate
all the best ;)
jesus in the seat of a 5
07-03-2009, 17:30
looks like another nice conversion mate
keep with it defo great conversion to be done, neva had mine n/a as i brought mine with it already turbo charged, drives so smooth tho, mines runnin emerald management and neva had a single prob so mite be a worth while inverstment mate
all the best ;)
bout time you gave that car to me....aint it..;)..stevO`..:wasntme:
steveR5GTT
07-03-2009, 17:39
bout time you gave that car to me....aint it..;)..stevO`..:wasntme:
ha ha nice try bud, cudnt sell it in the end, just didnt seem worth while so left it sat in the garage but found the love again so back to pod this year lol
drop me a txt mate ive lost ur number
best not clog up this thread chat on the say hello section just started thread on there bud :)
jesus in the seat of a 5
07-03-2009, 17:45
Definetely...sorry james , hope your gettin on better with the car today buddy...:)
Thought I would have another crack at the old girl tonight. Got the Zafira with Jump leads connected up and went for a turnover starter sounded but no fuel pump noise this is a little odd as it was at least sounding before I sent the ECU away going to go over my wiring to make sure all is OK:( anyday now she will be running
Chin up mate.. look on the bright side, I haven't even plugged on my sensors yet :)
isn't the fuel pump powered by a 4 pin relay with just a signal wire to the fuel pump relay? and then a live feed from the relay..
have you got a multimeter? I'm probably telling you how to suck eggs but get one of your probes on the signal wire and see if you're getting anything when cranking :)
Chin up mate.. look on the bright side, I haven't even plugged on my sensors yet :)
isn't the fuel pump powered by a 4 pin relay with just a signal wire to the fuel pump relay? and then a live feed from the relay..
have you got a multimeter? I'm probably telling you how to suck eggs but get one of your probes on the signal wire and see if you're getting anything when cranking :)
I have spent last night going around the car and sorting fuel pump problem turned out that the fuel pump live feed had a split in the circuit a bit of solder and heat shrink stuff and all is good took me long enough though to find where it was, I even took the fuel pump of to test that was ok.
Really need toget another battery as it is really fubbard. I turned the key last night I had fuel to the rail and the starter was sounding (Not enough power to get her to turnover though).
Really need toget another battery as it is really fubbard. I turned the key last night I had fuel to the rail and the starter was sounding (Not enough power to get her to turnover though).
Awsome, glad you sorted it.. so is it just a battery between you and getting the car on the road?
Awsome, glad you sorted it.. so is it just a battery between you and getting the car on the road?
Looks like the original 172 starter was fubbard (solenoid given up) I took it off and it would not work tried another good condition GTT uprated starter and that worked fine so going to use that. Going to put the working starter on tonight going to try cranking with the exisiting battery if not going to nick the battery out of my Zafira to get it hopefully running.
I hate electrics:scratch: - still got some gauges to wire up once finally running.
Fingers crossed it works if so they may be a video upload tonight (but knowing my luck something else will fail or I have not done correct:cartman:
:mad: Really getting pissed off now.
Fitted the R5 GTT starter to the car tonight and started the car all good fuel pump went starter sounded but it is not turning the fly (You can hear the starter motor spimming) moved the spacer to different places and still no difference even tried without it and it made no difference.
Had a look at it compared to my standard knackered 172 jobby and noticed that it is the same bolt fitment but the starter cog does not stick out as much as the 172 jobby
you sure that the pinion isn't just stuck in, ie it isn't jumping out to meet the flywheel when you crank ? are you able to grab the pinion cog in the starter and pull out outward (it should spring back in when you let go). Or, is it stuck fast ? may just be siezed up.
you sure that the pinion isn't just stuck in, ie it isn't jumping out to meet the flywheel when you crank ? are you able to grab the pinion cog in the starter and pull out outward (it should spring back in when you let go). Or, is it stuck fast ? may just be siezed up.
Pinion is definatly jumping out on the GTT starter when cranking and when I test it out of the engine bay aswell you can see it all working, and as you describe you can pull the pinion out by hand and it will spring back.
Out of interest what starter motor's are you other boys using on your 172 lumps??
mines a volvo jobbie... Used to have a 172 one on but it died!
Matt Cole
18-03-2009, 12:58
i rebuilt 1 out of two feked units. Seems to be lasting!
Andrew Cooke
18-03-2009, 13:16
hurry up and get it sorted James, you're scaring me about the magnitude of getting this swap running...
Andrew Cooke
18-03-2009, 13:20
Phase 1 172 ECU Demobilised (emulator) & group N map
I'm a bit lost, did you get RS Tuner, or ECUclinic to do this? I guess it's the same job for use with a fbw throttle?
hurry up and get it sorted James, you're scaring me about the magnitude of getting this swap running...
LOL it's just me being simple I have bitten the bullet and purchased a brand new 182 starter
I'm a bit lost, did you get RS Tuner, or ECUclinic to do this? I guess it's the same job for use with a fbw throttle?
It was RStuning who did it all in the end nice bloke called Paul cost about £130 just for the demobilisaton and I ran the RStuner unit for the Group N map from a friends RStuner unit
http://www.rstuning.co.uk/
With ref to the fbw ecu (phase 2) it doesn't need an emulator I believe it is all software changes
Andrew Cooke
18-03-2009, 14:06
It was RStuning who did it all in the end nice bloke called Paul cost about £130 just for the demobilisaton and I ran the RStuner unit for the Group N map from a friends RStuner unit
http://www.rstuning.co.uk/
With ref to the fbw ecu (phase 2) it doesn't need an emulator I believe it is all software changes
sweet, once I get the ECU in my hand (hopefully Sunday) I'll be able to give him a shout.
A 2nd hand 172/182 starter motor has turned up today :D which I purchased from the www.cliosport.net (http://www.cliosport.net) site. I tested it on my lunch break with the old jump leads to battery and power probe to solenoid and all seems good it engages and the motor turns, if the Mrs's will alllow me out to play tonight I will fit it and see what happens.
Do you know what size drive belt you used? I need a 835mm belt but can't seem to find one anywhere :(
Andrew Cooke
03-04-2009, 13:02
Do you know what size drive belt you used? I need a 835mm belt but can't seem to find one anywhere :(
I believe 827
I believe 827
As Andy says I ended up using an 5pk827 belt which I got from Halfords looked like it had been sitting around for a few years as the packaging was knackered. There isn't much play in my belt for manoverouring the alt about so you probably get away with an 830 matey try some local motor factors to see what they can get hold of.
I am led to believe that and Alfa Romeo 164 2.0 t spark and BMW e46 uses a 5pk830 belt? but I can't be 100%.
As Andy says I ended up using an 5pk827 belt which I got from Halfords looked like it had been sitting around for a few years as the packaging was knackered. There isn't much play in my belt for manoverouring the alt about so you probably get away with an 830 matey try some local motor factors to see what they can get hold of.
I am led to believe that and Alfa Romeo 164 2.0 t spark and BMW e46 uses a 5pk830 belt? but I can't be 100%.
Does the 5pk relate to the number of teeth on the pulley?
Does the 5pk relate to the number of teeth on the pulley?
Its the number of ribs / grooves and the numbers after is the length in mm
Its the number of ribs / grooves and the numbers after is the length in mm
cool thanks
I found a place that sells just about every length .. http://www.camskill.co.uk/products.php?plid=m28b0s0p0
wierd though I'm sure I counted six peaks on the belt - but I guess that works out as 5 on the pulley.. eek hope I've ordered the right one
cool thanks
I found a place that sells just about every length .. http://www.camskill.co.uk/products.php?plid=m28b0s0p0
wierd though I'm sure I counted six peaks on the belt - but I guess that works out as 5 on the pulley.. eek hope I've ordered the right one
The belt should be a 6pk matey but I have not been able to source a 6pk of the correct size but I will take a look at that link you have got and see if I can get a 6pk version
The belt should be a 6pk matey but I have not been able to source a 6pk of the correct size but I will take a look at that link you have got and see if I can get a 6pk version
I can find Dayco and Gates do a 6pk825 or Gates do a stretch belt 6pk831 ;)
I can find Dayco and Gates do a 6pk825 or Gates do a stretch belt 6pk831 ;)
I have already tried an 825 and it is doesn't fit to small
Andrew Cooke
03-04-2009, 18:04
since you're not driving the aircon or the PAS you probably don't need all those grooves.
Well have got the starter motor on and she now fires, but doesn't hold idle see video attached any idea's? She is defo getting fuel to the rail and obviously sparkies are firing aswell.
http://s252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/GTTJames/172%20conversion/?action=view¤t=MVI_4989.flv
Andrew Cooke
03-04-2009, 18:57
how are you setting the fuel pressure?
how are you setting the fuel pressure?
I have got a Bosch 3bar fpr on the fuel rail, or am I not thinking on the correct lines here:rob:
Andrew Cooke
03-04-2009, 19:06
I have got a Bosch 3bar fpr on the fuel rail, or am I not thinking on the correct lines here:rob:
possibly... it sounds like a lack of fuel to me, not sure what pressure the 172 should have?? I think it's normally set in the fuel tank, and only a single pipe goes to the engine - correct me if I'm wrong. What have you done with the reference pipe on the regulator - is there one? Do you have any leaks in the plenum?
possibly... it sounds like a lack of fuel to me, not sure what pressure the 172 should have?? I think it's normally set in the fuel tank, and only a single pipe goes to the engine - correct me if I'm wrong. What have you done with the reference pipe on the regulator - is there one? Do you have any leaks in the plenum?
I think the 172 run on 3bar fpr's as you say built into the tank, the reference pipe goes to the inlet plenium (the same way as Scoff & Ashys does). Not sure about plenium leaks all should be good will double check though
Andrew Cooke
03-04-2009, 19:14
I think the 172 run on 3bar fpr's as you say built into the tank, the reference pipe goes to the inlet plenium (the same way as Scoff & Ashys does). Not sure about plenium leaks all should be good will double check though
Ok, unplug that pipe, and block the hole in the plenum... the standard reg won't be referenced to the plenum.
Ok, unplug that pipe, and block the hole in the plenum... the standard reg won't be referenced to the plenum.
Fuel pump sounds a little dogey removed the fuel line to the rail and nothing looks like I am sending it back as it's new:laugh::crap:
Andrew Cooke
03-04-2009, 19:40
Fuel pump sounds a little dogey removed the fuel line to the rail and nothing looks like I am sending it back as it's new:laugh::crap:
just stick your GT pump on for a bit, it'll be Ok to get idling
Andrew Cooke
03-04-2009, 19:42
do you have any fuel in the tank?
do you have any fuel in the tank?
GTT pump went ages ago:crap: and i have 1/2 tank of 99ron stuff which i put in last week with 3 big jerry cans:D
GTT pump went ages ago:crap: and i have 1/2 tank of 99ron stuff which i put in last week with 3 big jerry cans:D
normally dodgy sounding pumps are sounding dodgy because they are dry. you have the fuel pipes (send/return/breather) hooked up right on the tank ?
Andrew Cooke
03-04-2009, 23:18
Ok, unplug that pipe, and block the hole in the plenum... the standard reg won't be referenced to the plenum.
and do this, checked the manual and the 172 uses a flat 3 bar reg, connect it like Scoff/Ashy when/if you go standalone.
and do this, checked the manual and the 172 uses a flat 3 bar reg, connect it like Scoff/Ashy when/if you go standalone.
To atmosphere it is then my friend:D
Well I have now replaced the fuel pump as the other one was definatly not working properly so I now have a nice flow of fuel to the rail. The injectors are also firing as I have the rail off with all bits conneted to see it squirted and all is good there, the engine is turning on the starter and the car is wanting to run but as soon as you take your hand of the ignition key she dies:confused: It's got to be something electrical.
:scratch::scratch:
Matt Cole
05-04-2009, 08:56
Check the TPS mate, have you tried half throttle, part throttle etc?? It sounds like not enough fuel is getting into the cylinders? It could be that the TPS or maybe TDC aint regestering to the ecu?? This is the problem with standard ecu's, you cant see whats going on. I would suggest getting the meter out and checking you have supply to the sensors. Other thoughts ....is the fuel pump running on after the key is released?? You could wire it to a switch to eliminate the possibility of the ecu telling it to shut off.
The injectors are also firing as I have the rail off with all bits conneted to see it squirted and all is good there,
:scratch::scratch:
Not smething I would reconmend doing, I did that on a hot day once and sh!t myself when one of them ignited!!
Not smething I would reconmend doing, I did that on a hot day once and sh!t myself when one of them ignited!!
**** I was trying to elimnate getting fuel, going to have another play later when I can be bothered it's going to be somthing simple I know it. I am going to look at my positive feeds as once you turn the key to start and then let go it dies a must be something to do with my constant feed
or ignition lives - maybe you have the ignition live for the ECU taken from the starter exciter or something wierd like that.
Hmm going to have another play tonight.:)
Been out for the last coupl of hours with my multimeter and wiring guide and still no joy what I have seems to be wired up fine, I even managed to wire up the GTT dash rev counter and oil pressure switch whilst trying to sort this out.
Don't know what to do now am totally clueless:scratch:
Anybody local good with elecs fancy taking a gander to see what they think a 2nd pair of eyes might help:cooter:
So does it fire up then stall?
Have you tried holding the throttle open? Is the pump still running constantly?
So does it fire up then stall?
Have you tried holding the throttle open? Is the pump still running constantly?
When you turn the key to start she sounds like she is firing and trying to run but then she stalls / die's
I have tried with the throttle open and tried pumping the accelerator pedal to which makes little if any difference. The pump is still sounding when the key is held to start:scratch: (got to put a switch inline on this to make sure as the exhaust is so loud when trying to crank can't always hear the pump)
Sounds like this
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/GTTJames/172%20conversion/th_MVI_4989.jpg (http://s252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/GTTJames/172%20conversion/?action=view¤t=MVI_4989.flv)
Andrew Cooke
05-04-2009, 23:05
Push a bit James, I'm planning on starting my swap over Easter, I need you running to sort out my problems :cool:
Push a bit James, I'm planning on starting my swap over Easter, I need you running to sort out my problems :cool:
I am really trying just got to a part which is now baffling me:(, I think I may wait for you to get yours in and running so you can tell me what i need to do:laugh:
Matt Cole
06-04-2009, 08:30
Wire the pump up to a switch then report back.
Sounds like this...
That sounds sooo close !!
Wire the pump up to a switch then report back.
:agree: Will try that later tonight.
Many thanks for all the advice guys more than appreciated:cooter:
That sounds sooo close !!
It is very close going to run switch to the fuel pump as suggested above.
Hows yours coming on??
It is very close going to run switch to the fuel pump as suggested above.
Hows yours coming on??
Well it's coming on.. I need to be ready for 10 may as I've planned to do a hill climb..
It just needs plumbing up which I plan to do this week and then it's onto the wiring that I'm not looking forward to - I plan to do that next week.. so hopefully I should be turning the key somewhere around the 20th, giving me a couple of weeks to iron out any issues although it's cutting things a little tight especially if I get nowehere with the mapping!!
:agree: Will try that later tonight.
Many thanks for all the advice guys more than appreciated:cooter:
Just thinking there aren't any pipes comng out the inlet/throttle bodie that you haven't blocked up.. or one way vlaves you've missed from the brake servo etc..
Just thinking there aren't any pipes comng out the inlet/throttle bodie that you haven't blocked up.. or one way vlaves you've missed from the brake servo etc..
Nah got a one way valve in place for servo, Just blocked up the carbon canister pipe as I left it open but made no difference.
I'll try this fuel supply switch 1st then go from there.
Good luck with getting yours running matey
I'm probably wrong, but could it be an air leak :confused: :scratch:
I've had similar sounding engines and it turned out to be an air leak. Just my 2p worth :)
Hope you get it sorted soon mate.
Andrew Cooke
06-04-2009, 18:45
I'm probably wrong, but could it be an air leak :confused: :scratch:
I've had similar sounding engines and it turned out to be an air leak. Just my 2p worth :)
Hope you get it sorted soon mate.
I think that's unlikely to cause that type of problem as the 172 uses a MAP sensor
I think that's unlikely to cause that type of problem as the 172 uses a MAP sensor
Well got the fuel pump on a switch and does give constant supply of fuel but still no start I have removed the plenium to note that where the coil pack sits my connections are a little rusty from where the water comes through the 16v vent so have cleaned them up need to get a couple of bolts to fit as 2 of them rusty as anything will play again tomoz
It'll either be a wiring issue or an issue with the ECU itself. I don't know how the 172's immo works usually, but if it's anything like some of the VW ones it might allow the motor to run for a second and then cut-out, so maybe the immo removal didn't take properly ?
It'll either be a wiring issue or an issue with the ECU itself. I don't know how the 172's immo works usually, but if it's anything like some of the VW ones it might allow the motor to run for a second and then cut-out, so maybe the immo removal didn't take properly ?
Anyone local got phase 1 172 that I can test my ecu on???
Andrew Cooke
06-04-2009, 21:23
it still sounds like fuel to me, that fuel pressure gauge sounds like a good idea, don't forget that it'll be 3 bar, so you'll need to use something like an oil pressure gauge as a boost gauge won't go high enough.
Did you unplug that pipe?
Andrew Cooke
06-04-2009, 21:31
Have you kept the OBD port? if you can borrow a reader (RSTuner for example) you should be able to see what's going on - maybe you're throwing an error up?
Have you kept the OBD port? if you can borrow a reader (RSTuner for example) you should be able to see what's going on - maybe you're throwing an error up?
Obd port never had the internal loom just the engine 1
Andrew Cooke
06-04-2009, 21:43
Obd port never had the internal loom just the engine 1
try and get the connector and a length of wire , it'll be worth it for times like this.
I almost just ordered an RSTuner for this very reason, then noticed that they're out of stock...
Obd port never had the internal loom just the engine 1
all the lines you need are available on the ECU plug, you'll just need to do a bit of wiring. I had the same thought, but didn't want to stress you out with more wiring :laugh:
all the lines you need are available on the ECU plug, you'll just need to do a bit of wiring. I had the same thought, but didn't want to stress you out with more wiring :laugh:
Going to get a fuel pressure Gauge and T piece so I can see what the rail is getting.
I hate wiring:mad: Oh why didn't I go standalone in the 1st place:scratch: (need to save some cash now as I think this would be best in the long run) but if I have fuel problems probably have the same problems
This is a whole lot easier than standalone, trust me :)
This is a whole lot easier than standalone, trust me :)
My ECU is definatly getting a constant live feed & ignition live feed.
I defo think this is fuel related! I thinkas soon as the injectors open the fuel pressure is dropping hence not running for long.
Also going to double check that I am getting a spark going to make sure all coil contacts are clean, whats the best way to test for spark on these engines?
Get a mate in the car to turn it over & hold the H/T lead with your hand :wasntme:
Get a mate in the car to turn it over & hold the H/T lead with your hand :wasntme:
So when do you fancy coming over:laugh:
Don't think I will be holding it in my hand:dearme:
try unplugging the TPS and the MAP sensor and trying it, maybe there is something wrong and they are throwing up errors. My guess is that if you unplug them the ECU will revert to a default setting that might let it run? Worth a shot?
try unplugging the TPS and the MAP sensor and trying it, maybe there is something wrong and they are throwing up errors. My guess is that if you unplug them the ECU will revert to a default setting that might let it run? Worth a shot?
Will give that a try tonight when I get in from work
Update
I am sitting in the r5 on the itouch (using the Internet) I have spark, i have 3.5 bar fuel pressure to the rail, she cranks, I have good battery charge, I have unplugged the tps and map sensor and this has made no difference at all. HELP
try sticking a few more earths onto the engine, use jump leads from the battery, get one onto the plenum... Clutching at straws i know!!
Adey aka Ewok
07-04-2009, 21:49
tdc sensor problem?
tdc sensor problem?
Good point, you wouldn't believe how many problems I've had wit the crappy reno crank sensors... Even bought the new blue sensor and plug but had no luck... Since swapping to a cossie type sensor i've had no more trouble :)
try sticking a few more earths onto the engine, use jump leads from the battery, get one onto the plenum... Clutching at straws i know!!
LOL I have already got 4 earth points will try the jump leads
Has the immobiliser definitely being taken off by ecu clinic, as a couple of the guys on cliosport doing the conversion had problems with the ecu not being decoded properly.
Just a thought as you seem to have tried everything else.
Good point, you wouldn't believe how many problems I've had wit the crappy reno crank sensors... Even bought the new blue sensor and plug but had no luck... Since swapping to a cossie type sensor i've had no more trouble :)
made no difference with the jump leads in place :(
Has the immobiliser definitely being taken off by ecu clinic, as a couple of the guys on cliosport doing the conversion had problems with the ecu not being decoded properly.
Just a thought as you seem to have tried everything else.
My ECU was demobilised with an emulator by RStuning http://www.rstuning.co.uk/ some pics further back in this thread somewhere but i am thinking it is ECU related.
I suppose even if I was to test the ECU on friends phase 1 clio 172 it work make no difference as the phase 1 would have the decoded key and the other unit required to get past the ecu???
tdc sensor problem?
Will buy a new one so I can eliminate it :D
Will buy a new one so I can eliminate it :D
Not likely since it runs for 1 second, I think ECU too. Try it on someone else's clio james.
Not likely since it runs for 1 second, I think ECU too. Try it on someone else's clio james.
Chris, I have a willing volunter with a phase 1 172 (cheers Ivan:cooter:) but even if i test it on the clio will the clio not have the decoded key and transponder thingy or does the ECU carry the same code aswell:confused:
Chris, I have a willing volunter with a phase 1 172 (cheers Ivan:cooter:) but even if i test it on the clio will the clio not have the decoded key and transponder thingy or does the ECU carry the same code aswell:confused:
unsure, I expect the key needs to match the ECU ? It might match the transponder which in turn gives the ECU the go-ahead. I don't know mate, but, if the ECU does the same on Ivan's car then it's certainly an ECU issue. Ofcourse, if it runs OK you will be non the wiser :cartman:
unsure, I expect the key needs to match the ECU ? It might match the transponder which in turn gives the ECU the go-ahead. I don't know mate, but, if the ECU does the same on Ivan's car then it's certainly an ECU issue. Ofcourse, if it runs OK you will be non the wiser :cartman:
I have just pm'd one of the blokes on the www.cliosport.net (http://www.cliosport.net) who has done the conversion into a mark 1 clio and uses a demobilised 172 ECU to see if he would be willing for me to send him my ECU to test it on his car if it works I know the ECU is fine and it's my dogey wiring.
Adey aka Ewok
08-04-2009, 07:20
i really wana do this engine swap but after reading this i think ill get an aftermarket ecu to control everything
The guys that did the conversion on cliosport had problems with rstuning with regards to decoding them. I think beaniemoo used ecu clinic might be worth giving them a call.
There's a guy on the coupe-club putting a 172 into a coupe and he's used rstuning to decode his I'll let you know whether his fires up or not.
The guys that did the conversion on cliosport had problems with rstuning with regards to decoding them. I think beaniemoo used ecu clinic might be worth giving them a call.
There's a guy on the coupe-club putting a 172 into a coupe and he's used rstuning to decode his I'll let you know whether his fires up or not.
That would be good if you could find out and let me know.
Again many thanks to everyone for all the advice and tips.
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