View Full Version : R21 Power potential?
:smokin:
Hi all
Just woundered if any R21 turbo owners could enlighten me on what type of power figures they have achieved from the car.
would a figure of 250 horses be achievable?
I have owned a R21 for a brief spell and she was a real road sl*t, thats for sure, but was running no more than standard boost and cam.
cheers all
hi m8 had a 21 for the last 6 years only to sell it last year and then go and buy my 11 turbo:rolleyes::rolleyes:
250 is more than achievable m8 if you take a look on the 21 owners club if there forum is ever back up and running then you will see that one of the belguim guys has had just a shade over 300 bhp i think :eek::eek::eek::eek:
twallwood
19-11-2008, 12:45
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
mine was 250bhp, great fun. never had a problem with it. the guy who built the engine is an rtoc member. http://www.rtoc.org/boards/member.php?u=258
he knows a thing or two about them! his 21t is running over 260bhp, lovely motor.
Thanks for the replys guys.
great food for thought!
bye_all_c_ya
20-11-2008, 23:40
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/member.php?u=258 (http://www.rtoc.org/boards/member.php?u=258)
also own a car from this member:)
rogerreno
21-11-2008, 22:29
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
:smokin:
Hi all
Just woundered if any R21 turbo owners could enlighten me on what type of power figures they have achieved from the car.
would a figure of 250 horses be achievable?
I have owned a R21 for a brief spell and she was a real road sl*t, thats for sure, but was running no more than standard boost and cam.
cheers all
I see your 21 is the best colour they came in!!! Have you still got it?? I've still got mine (BOB) and he's running a healthy 260bhp and 248lbft torque.
I've done a lot of work to the head and manifolds, opening the ports up quite a bit as this is the most restrictive part of the engine (as its basically a std 2.0L N/A head with different valve guides)
If your running any kind of cam i'd give it a bit more boost..no point fitting one if your not gonna give it anything else..I've got a mild cam in mine, also a bigger turbo, injectors and adjustable fuel pressure reg with more fuel pressure.
I usually run around 18psi on the road and in overboost mode will run 22psi.
It is there...you just gotta find it!!
Cheers,
Roj
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
I see your 21 is the best colour they came in!!! Have you still got it?? I've still got mine (BOB) and he's running a healthy 260bhp and 248lbft torque.
I've done a lot of work to the head and manifolds, opening the ports up quite a bit as this is the most restrictive part of the engine (as its basically a std 2.0L N/A head with different valve guides)
If your running any kind of cam i'd give it a bit more boost..no point fitting one if your not gonna give it anything else..I've got a mild cam in mine, also a bigger turbo, injectors and adjustable fuel pressure reg with more fuel pressure.
I usually run around 18psi on the road and in overboost mode will run 22psi.
It is there...you just gotta find it!!
Cheers,
Roj
hahhaaaaa ooo large one you are alive on the boards LOL :cooter::cooter::cooter::cooter::cooter:
took you long enough
Does anyone own a r21 turbo that visits these boards and lives in the nottingham/derby area?
I wouldnt mind a quick peek at a few engine dimensions etc.
I have a conversion itch that needs to be scratched!!!
:)
10 mins from J26 M1 driving the 21 ,'bout 6 in the GTA :coffee:
im on jnc 28
so not to far off.
pm inc
rogerreno
25-11-2008, 23:00
:)
10 mins from J26 M1 driving the 21 ,'bout 6 in the GTA :coffee:
I'm 5 mins from J22...and theres less oil on the outside of my engine!!! LOL!!!:p
Too shiny to stick to ? You had the clay on that as well I bet :cooter:
with regards the TXE 12 valve head, Will that fit straight onto the turbo lump?
Will it need any modifications to the inlet/outlet manifolds?
Will the car run on the standard renault ECU with a 12 valve head in exchange of the standard 8 valve? Or is it going to need a standalone ECU?
Is there any "real" gains power/torque/drivability to be had from using the 12 valve head over the stock 8 valve?
So many questions so little time!
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
The 12 valve head will bolt straight to the existing block. They are both J series engines so coolant and oil ways will match up.
I think the standard inlet manifold of the 12 valve could be used, however the exhasut manifold would definately have to be custom.
I imagine the car will start up on the standard management however it would need a remap to suit the no doubt larger fuel injectors, different cam profiles and improved flow of the 12valve head.
The standard 12valve exhaust valves would need changing as the higher cylinder temps may kill them.
Its still a rarity and I only know or 2 or 3 12 valve conversions that have been started and not yet completed.
Personally I'd stick with the 8 valve head, the cost of the 12 valve conversion would probably be close to sticking a cosworth or more cost effective engine to tune in.
THE MASTER
29-11-2008, 02:05
food for thought
why not chuck in a crank and rods from a 2.2 with a 12 valve head
long stroky and a big breather :coffee:
woolworth might have gone but we can still do the pick and mix
its all about the J numbers innit ;)
:cool:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HtMoUiME1E8
that thing is running about 400bhp innit
:cool:very cool:cool:
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
The world ice speed record cars wern't producing as much power as that Colin, the Supertourisme and Superproduction cars were though. Theres a few vids of Ragnotti driving them on youtube.
ok heres the idea currently on the drawing board.
A R21 engine/gearbox into a R19 16valve.
The bays have been measured up and the block would fit along with the gearbox.
But somehow the subframe form a 21 would also be needed by the looks of it.
Drive shafts i havent really got my head round what id need to do with these yet.
And the steering rack my pose a few issus.
Anyone more experienced in these areas of hybrid conversions that could throw some spanners in the work, or even pitfalls to look for etc.
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Into a 19 I'd go down the easier route of F7P/F7R/F4R turbo conversions.
The J series engine is normally mounted longitundinallt except I think in some saffranes. It also wont make as much power as a more modern 16valve engine like the F4R.
OK the 21 has the benefit of the UN1 box being quite tough but after 350lbft or so primary shafts are likely to need upgrading.
i'm with lewis, the R21 8v is an old unit, a 16v turbo will blow it away.
also, with a UN1 your shaft's will want to sit pretty far back. look at an R21 from the side and note how far the rear wheels sit back from the front. I don't know if you'd have enough room in an R19 bay ?
the engine itself will fit
what my wrry is the gearbox.
I have noticed how long the front of the R21 is, which is needed to incorporate the gearbox etc.
Ill have a better idea once i stick my head under the car. Hopefully this weekend.
I can safely assume then that noones tried this daft idea haha.
I have a few hybrid ideas.
This is the first avenue im exploring. Picking up an R21 doner car is far cheaper to do than turbo up and fit an ecu to a F7R currently.
Plus i do like the 8 valve engine..it has an appeal about it.
175 horses as standard is a nice boost over the pony f7p sh*t thats currently in the car. i forgot how much i hate the engine.
The other idea would be to ram a F7R engine and gearbox in, nice and easy straight swap. Could probably do that in an afternoon if it wasnt so cold.
But if your lucky you can buy an R21 for less than a decent F7R engine. Fair enough the R21 might be worse for wear and the engin on last legs. But it'd be far cheaper to fix up.
The big problem is the gearbox and the driveshafts/steering rack as far as i can see now..but give me a weekend to measure up the underneth of the R19 before i knock the idea on the head.
bones660
03-01-2009, 11:27
i say go for it . i love 21 turbo's and the engines . like you they have an appeal about them . don't know what . but they do . but to fit the engine in a 19 16v would be awesome . so go on go for it .
remember , everything is possible .
i know it is a popular conversion now . a 3.5 v8 into a bedford cf van . which i have done . but to see the size difference in the 2 engines . you would'nt think it possible .
so have a few:coffee::coffee: and some more :coffee::coffee: breaks then just hit into it . goodluck
rs250nut
08-01-2009, 18:21
I take it that this un1 gear bag you speak of is a trans axle type? Could this not be used in the back of a gtt with a crazy power f series engine?
Tiny Tim
08-01-2009, 18:24
I did have some pics of a gtt with a 21 lump in the back. It had a wide-arch kit on it as it needed the extra room iirc. The standard 21t UN1 would probably hang out the back and again, iirc, the Renault 5 turbos used a UN1 with a smaller bellhousing.
If you want a transverse 21T engine use a Safrane 2.0 Box. No guantees it will fit in the bay or work tho, but its the only direct transverse option.
Sod the UN1, its a heap of old oily slow shifting, gear grinding crap.
THE MASTER
12-03-2009, 22:15
If you want a transverse 21T engine use a Safrane 2.0 Box. No guantees it will fit in the bay or work tho, but its the only direct transverse option.
Sod the UN1, its a heap of old oily slow shifting, gear grinding crap.
un5 is sorta the same box but has 4 planet wheels;)
from owning a 19 16v as a daily whilst working on my 5 as was a little dissapointed at first but eventually enjoyed its comforts but just felt it was lacking in power, a bit heavy round the bends although fun. tempted to put the volvo lump in but then havin to sort the suspension etc put me off spendin too much on it. a few daily cars later i ended up with a 172, loads more fun, but lacking the space, interior and the boot. a few more cars later and i got the 21t, from the drive home it clicked, it is everythin i wanted the 19 to be! take one for a drive, could be a lot less effort than a conversion, esp if your plannin on an engine build anyway
i have owned an R21T i loved the car. it was battle scared just how i loved it to.
The idea was to slot this motor into an R19 cabriolet.
i love the cabs.
in the end we dropped a williams conversion into it. made a hell of a difference.
The F7p is a horrible engine in comparison.
in the end i gave in to temptation and purchased a trophy megane.
the car is incredible...apart form it being insanely thristy and breaking down every 5 minutes!!
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