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View Full Version : Couple of questions on Cam Timing.


Ashy
08-09-2011, 20:48
Right guys, couple of nice easy ones for you.

When timing up a 285 cam how far either side of full lift do you take you're readings? David Vizzard recommends 3 thou but I wonder what you chaps go for.

When using a vernier pulley do you still use the heavy washer under the head of the bolt? Or as the vernier is thicker can you leave it off to give more clearance inside the timing cover.

When checking for full lift it is the inlet valve on the cylinder at the water pump end of the engine isn't it? I never know which is 1 & 4.

When installing a vernier pulley should it pull up against the end of the cam when tightened up in position or is it locking on a taper?

Told you they were simple.

Thanks.
V Man
09-09-2011, 14:39
Bump!
Can anyone contribute anything to this, we were hoping to look at this later on!:scratch:
Dave Reed
09-09-2011, 14:45
When checking for full lift it is the inlet valve on the cylinder at the water pump end of the engine isn't it? I never know which is 1 & 4.

No 1 is the Fly wheel end, that's all I no about all your questions :crap:
raj
09-09-2011, 15:25
come on folks, i know there definitely a fair few members with a 285 cam fitted. i need this answering also.
V Man
09-09-2011, 15:25
Cheers Dave.
That's the only bit I knew too!:cry:
GTphil
09-09-2011, 15:26
I used the o.e washer when fitting my cam pully, however I used a cork timing cover gasket to give enough clearance otherwise the pully may catch the timing cover, other ways are to use a thinner washer or grind down the bolt head slightly or bash a dent in the timing cover itself.
V Man
09-09-2011, 15:33
Right guys, couple of nice easy ones for you.



When installing a vernier pulley should it pull up against the end of the cam when tightened up in position or is it locking on a taper?



Thanks.


Phil, do you know anything about this bit???
Matt Cole
09-09-2011, 15:49
IMO it's a must to use the washer, or another washer to spead the load / increase surface area when torque up.:agree:
V Man
09-09-2011, 15:55
Aye Matt I know what your saying but the vernier has a big spacer in the middle that would do that?

I'm not sure the vernier pulley is flush agains the cam as I'm not sure it is?

:confused:
Matt Cole
09-09-2011, 16:01
Aye Matt I know what your saying but the vernier has a big spacer in the middle that would do that?

I'm not sure the vernier pulley is flush agains the cam as I'm not sure it is?

:confused:

Ah right, so if it has a raised centre section then that should be good without the washer. If i remember, the camshaft face protrudes out enough for the pulley face to sit too. Does it line up with the crank? If so all should be good.
Ashy
09-09-2011, 16:16
bump..... anymore advise? Thought these were easy.... :confused:
fishead
09-09-2011, 17:26
thinner washer an cork gasket, the key on the vernier isnt secure, as in no washer an spocket not in exact right place the key will push through an fall on floor. the key or peg needs to be in the right place to locate into cam, all ones i have done have been quite a tight fit but should pull up good if its all in right place

prob makes no sence at all but hopefully may do when its infront of you
Ashy
09-09-2011, 22:11
thinner washer an cork gasket, the key on the vernier isnt secure, as in no washer an spocket not in exact right place the key will push through an fall on floor. the key or peg needs to be in the right place to locate into cam, all ones i have done have been quite a tight fit but should pull up good if its all in right place

prob makes no sence at all but hopefully may do when its infront of you

Yo, would of been a handy hint earlier today before we fitted it :crap:

So for those of you that one day find this thread in a search.... The cam doesn't pull fully up inside the vernier. The rear face of the pulley pulls up tight to the retaining bearing plate (not sure of the proper name).

We took measurements are 0.015", 0.010", 0.005" and 0.003" both before an after full lift and took an average of all 4 readings.

We didn't use the flat washer on the back of the vernier. But as mr Fishead said you need to be careful with the locating dowel which as it can be suhed out if the cam isn't aligned properly. The timing cover did need a slight tap to clear the head of the bolt.

We used the inlet valve on cylinder 4 (waterpump end) to se the timing.
GTphil
09-09-2011, 22:35
Glad you got it sorted, I couldn't remember how exactly it bolted up, and was a little pushed for time when typing the post earlyer.
raj
09-09-2011, 22:36
Yo, would of been a handy hint earlier today before we fitted it :crap:

So for those of you that one day find this thread in a search.... The cam doesn't pull fully up inside the vernier. The rear face of the pulley pulls up tight to the retaining bearing plate (not sure of the proper name).

We took measurements are 0.015", 0.010", 0.005" and 0.003" both before an after full lift and took an average of all 4 readings.

We didn't use the flat washer on the back of the vernier. But as mr Fishead said you need to be careful with the locating dowel which as it can be suhed out if the cam isn't aligned properly. The timing cover did need a slight tap to clear the head of the bolt.

We used the inlet valve on cylinder 4 (waterpump end) to se the timing.

sh1t.! sounds like too much messing around for me to do, ashy can you take a few pics if possible?

i'll end up fuking it up.
i havent got the cam and vernier to hand yet.
Ashy
09-09-2011, 22:43
sh1t.! sounds like too much messing around for me to do, ashy can you take a few pics if possible?

i'll end up fuking it up.
i havent got the cam and vernier to hand yet.

Its not too bad mate, I followed the instructions in David Vizzards book. I'll scan it in and upload it if that helps?
raj
10-09-2011, 01:13
Its not too bad mate, I followed the instructions in David Vizzards book. I'll scan it in and upload it if that helps?

yes mate, any tips/help/advice would be a great help:agree:

im surprised we haven't got this procedure in the articles section!
Brigsy
10-09-2011, 20:03
I used a thinner washer/cork gasket so the bolt clears the timing chain cover. Degree the cam as per vizards instructions :)
raj
10-09-2011, 20:51
I used a thinner washer/cork gasket so the bolt clears the timing chain cover. Degree the cam as per vizards instructions :)

i want this book, is it this one (http://www.amazon.co.uk/David-Vizards-Build-Horsepower-Design/dp/1934709174/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1315684170&sr=1-4).?
Alastair
10-09-2011, 21:29
i want this book, is it this one (http://www.amazon.co.uk/David-Vizards-Build-Horsepower-Design/dp/1934709174/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1315684170&sr=1-4).?

This is an excellent book...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Forced-Induction-Performance-Tuning-H691/dp/1859606911/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1315686512&sr=1-5
Ashy
10-09-2011, 21:59
THIS (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tuning-British-Leylands-Engine-motoring/dp/0854294147/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1315688296&sr=1-5) is the one I have
raj
16-09-2011, 12:24
ive just got my vernier today,
so regarding using a washer.... to me it looks like you wouldnt have to use one,
purely for the fact that the vernier pulley has a built in type washer (part of the vernier) if you know what i mean.
it seems just as thick as the washer you would use with a std pulley.

so why do folks add an extra washer on top of the built in vernier washer.?

i just want to be certain about this before assembling everything.
V Man
16-09-2011, 12:29
ive just got my vernier today,
so regarding using a washer.... to me it looks like you wouldnt have to use one,
purely for the fact that the vernier pulley has a built in type washer (part of the vernier) if you know what i mean.
it seems just as thick as the washer you would use with a std pulley.

so why do folks add an extra washer on top of the built in vernier washer.?

i just want to be certain about this before assembling everything.


We didn't use the extra washer although you probably could if you wanted to but you would be using more space in the timing cover.

It looks like James used a washer if you look at half way down this:
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?367149-172-Clio-into-an-R5-GTT/page18

:)
Ashy
16-09-2011, 12:45
We didn't use the extra washer although you probably could if you wanted to but you would be using more space in the timing cover.

It looks like James used a washer if you look at half way down this:
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?367149-172-Clio-into-an-R5-GTT/page18

:)

Didn't know you were a member on cliosport G?
V Man
16-09-2011, 13:20
Didn't know you were a member on cliosport G?

I'm not. I googled 111RE0030 and that thread came up (good read :agree:)!
raj
16-09-2011, 15:03
i think im going to fit the vernier without an extra washer, purely for the fact that the vernier has a built in washer of the same thickness as the std pulley washer.
V Man
16-09-2011, 15:31
i think im going to fit the vernier without an extra washer, purely for the fact that the vernier has a built in washer of the same thickness as the std pulley washer.
:agree:

Have you bought all the bits you need then?
raj
16-09-2011, 16:32
:agree:

Have you bought all the bits you need then?

yes,
cam, vernier pulley, timing disc & dti gauge