View Full Version : 5-225 Progress Pics
Matt Cole
12-11-2008, 13:20
For those that missed it the first time, heres a few progress pics. It still looks a mess but its work in progress, starts and ticks over. Still lots to do and up to now it works! :)
i l k e r
12-11-2008, 13:31
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
looks a tight squeeze there mate
loads of room in the 11 for that engine ;)
top job mate :agree:
:cool: Top darts.
You running a twin-scroll blower?
Get those cam pulleys cleaned :D ;)
Top job matey be good to see the finished conversion and how it runs.
dave-sbs
12-11-2008, 17:52
looking good fatty , cant wait to see it move under its own steam :D
Matt Cole
12-11-2008, 17:54
:cool: Top darts.
You running a twin-scroll blower?
Get those cam pulleys cleaned :D ;)
Lol yeah my garage seems to rust everything!! Yes twin scroll, lots of low end boooost!:D
Matt Cole
12-11-2008, 17:57
and a few more.................
not much wiring there is there?? wtf:eek:
Big Steve - Raider
12-11-2008, 18:27
LOL!!
I just love to look at photos like that showing all the hard work & effort involved in dropping a different engine into a car!!!
Top work Matt!!
You can get a load of those plugs needed to make the engine loom from places like Auto Electric Supplies (http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/), Triggerwheels (http://trigger-wheels.com/store/index1.html), Autosparks (http://www.autosparks.co.uk/index.php?content_page=home) or VWP (http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/cable/standardcable.php).
I made a custom loom for my VAG Clio running Emerald ECU & was very pleased with the results! I'm actually in the process of re-doing mine now & trying where possible to eliminate any remains of the original Renault Loom!
If you need any help let me know?
Steve
Matt Cole
12-11-2008, 19:14
Thats the bare bones wiring. Other stuff to put on yet, but yeah not looking forward to tidying it up!! Thanks for them links steve, probably just what i need. Going to build a main loom with a connector plug and then an engine loom to join to it. That way when the gear box blows up, and engines back out, the least thing to worry about is all the wiring!:D
R5TURBORON
15-11-2008, 09:28
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
looking good mate will have to have a drive up see how its going
Matt Cole
15-11-2008, 10:17
aye bob on up matey, will be good crack!:agree:
Andrew Cooke
15-11-2008, 10:19
have you got a LH strut top for that LH strut?
Matt Cole
15-11-2008, 10:39
Its incorrect for that side Andy. Briggsy sent me the wrong one the scab!:D So im running two of the same side untill i can correct it.
Adey aka Ewok
15-11-2008, 14:44
what gearbox is this running?
Rob@Backyardracing
16-11-2008, 11:01
Good work mate. :agree:
First post!
Does anyone know what management this is running??
Big Steve - Raider
17-11-2008, 18:04
First post!
Does anyone know what management this is running??
OE Renault I think?? :confused:
First post!
Does anyone know what management this is running??
Adaptronic.
rs250nut
17-11-2008, 20:07
Top job there matey, if I had access to that engine and box I would use it over my planed f7 all day long, is this the first conversion in to a five?
No, someone did it in Belguim a year or so ago.
Matt Cole
17-11-2008, 22:09
Top job there matey, if I had access to that engine and box I would use it over my planed f7 all day long, is this the first conversion in to a five?
Many thanks! I'ts a right ******* of a conversion as you can't use the 6 speed box due to it's length. I have modified the block to take the jb series gearbox. The block castings are very different to the 172/182. As far as im aware it's the first conversion to be done in a right hand drive 5 in the uk . Someone in belgium has done it (LHD) but its a lot simpler due to being able to retain the original turbo position as the servo and master cylinder would not get in the way of the down pipe from exiting the turbo, due it being on the other side. So you have to fabricate a twin scroll manifold which was another interesting job!:eek:
Matt Cole
17-11-2008, 22:12
No, someone did it in Belguim a year or so ago.
Yeah as stated, on a LHD 5 which is a lot easier due to the master cylider and servo getting in the way on the RHD 5.
rs250nut
17-11-2008, 22:13
Many thanks! I'ts a right ******* of a conversion as you can't use the 6 speed box due to it's length. I have modified the block to take the jb series gearbox. The block castings are very different to the 172/182. As far as im aware it's the first conversion to be done in a right hand drive 5 in the uk . Someone in belgium has done it (LHD) but its a lot simpler due to being able to retain the original turbo position as the servo and master cylinder would not get in the way of the down pipe from exiting the turbo, due it being on the other side. So you have to fabricate a twin scroll manifold which was another interesting job!:eek:
I take it that you would have to re-fabricate the n/s chassis leg to make it fit
Matt Cole
17-11-2008, 22:18
I take it that you would have to re-fabricate the n/s chassis leg to make it fit
Yes and widen the track or you would'nt get full lock. Apparently it would fit in a clio mk3 with about a fannys hair clearance, just to give you an idea.
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
You can get one in a Megane coupe just! ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEFbFxi1Fuk
225 is alive :)
Big thanks to Scoff for the help!!! :cool: Genuine Wizzard.:agree:
:agree::goodJob:Top job boys will be good to see this fully up and running :)
Matt Cole
30-11-2008, 21:38
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEFbFxi1Fuk
225 is alive :)
Big thanks to Scoff for the help!!! :cool: Genuine Wizzard.:agree:
Massive thanks to the Mr Ashy for getting stuck in and helping out big time to get it to this stage and for the Scoff for the amazing knowledge and who has shown yet again what this club is all about!!!:agree::agree:
From this point it needs a good sort out, wiring loom build and intercooler fitting, then a good road test and mapping. Fingers crossed it drives as good as it sounds!!:D
Adey aka Ewok
30-11-2008, 22:08
is that the turbo spooling i can hear? sounds good, bet you cant wait to get her out on the road, congrats man
Matt Cole
30-11-2008, 22:13
is that the turbo spooling i can hear? sounds good, bet you cant wait to get her out on the road, congrats man
Yeah, it spools from next to nowt!! If i had hair, i could blow dry just on idle!:D
Mudslinger
14-12-2008, 16:31
found this pic on my old hd :)
not sure if youve seen this before ?
found this pic on my old hd :)
not sure if youve seen this before ?
That is a squeeze with the turbo in it's orginal place
How's the car coming on Matt any more progress?
Matt Cole
29-12-2008, 23:21
Yeah seen that pic. Not possible on RHD unless the servo is moved. Its running james, just on with the loom and coolant pipe runs. 2 days work and i should be somewhere near.:)
Yeah seen that pic. Not possible on RHD unless the servo is moved. Its running james, just on with the loom and coolant pipe runs. 2 days work and i should be somewhere near.:)
Sounds very similair to where I am @ just can't be arsed to play in the cold weather going to do some more tonight when i get back from work. Be good to see this up and running fully matey.
Matt Cole
30-12-2008, 23:24
Sounds very similair to where I am @ just can't be arsed to play in the cold weather going to do some more tonight when i get back from work. Be good to see this up and running fully matey.
Ha you will have yours running and on the road before me chief. :sad2: Been on with it for 10 months now. Its been an adventure for sure!!:D
Matt Cole
05-01-2009, 13:20
Intercooler now fitted. Bit of a route but there aint much space in there!:D
that is going to be a beast!
Looking very tidy now that wiring has been sorted Matt :cool:
Good work :agree:
Matt that is looking fecking awesome buddy
:DFantastic work dude, when can I hire you to fitting a 225 lump in mine
Matt Cole
05-01-2009, 21:59
Thanks chaps. Will keep the update coming. Just been building up the loom, so hopefully that should get fitted at the weekend. Still got plenty to do but its coming together.:agree:
shoehorn springs to mind
:)
Matt Cole
09-01-2009, 21:40
:D
Matt Cole
29-01-2009, 17:00
UPDATE!
Well i reached a specific goal today, and that was a small test drive!!:eek: Took it up the industrial estate.........
WOW. It feels awesome!!:D Loads of low end torque. Took it up to 5psi as there aint an igniton map in yet, or a decent fuel map, boost seems instant, but hey im very very pleased with the way it drove as the gear box alignment was at question. I still have a list of tidying up, other stuff to wire in etc, so its still got work to do, but i reckon a couple of weekends and it will be ready for a mapping.
Still buzzing......!!!:yeah:
Penfold aka The Dealer
29-01-2009, 17:06
Well done mat! :agree:
Adey aka Ewok
29-01-2009, 17:14
cool beans cant wait to see this go
Top work matey can't wait to see this in the flesh, got any vids of being driven?
Duncan Grier
29-01-2009, 21:43
Excellent stuff! I remember Scoff sending me a clip of the VAG 5 the 1st time it started - big turning point!
1st time I drove it felt very special and worth all the research and effort.
Look forward to seeing the beast in the flesh ;)
great project great work matt ,happy days :)
Can't wait to see this blasting up santa pod, its gunna be interesting to see what it can do.
Whos gunna do your mapping?
Matt Cole
30-01-2009, 13:08
Can't wait to see this blasting up santa pod, its gunna be interesting to see what it can do.
Whos gunna do your mapping?
I've put Scoffs name down!!:D
Andrew Cooke
30-01-2009, 13:17
I've put Scoffs name down!!:D
I see 107mph traps in your future, he won't let you have more than that ;)
Proof that its alive :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jIzXCVam-I
Just awesome! Top, top, top work guys, cant stress enough how impressed i am with the work you've put into that.
What the other projects around atm i cant wait for this season, happy days ahead :cool:
Matt Cole
08-02-2009, 17:57
Done 30 miles in her today. Awesome throttle response even at this state of tune!!
Penfold aka The Dealer
08-02-2009, 18:11
Nice one, to have 220+ bhp engine in a 5 must be nice.
Should be very relaible aswell
Done 30 miles in her today. Awesome throttle response even at this state of tune!!
Awesome, next to Scoff's and Stu Clark's its gotta be up there with the best of em, can't wait to see what it'll do
Matt Cole
03-03-2009, 14:24
A couple of final piccies for you all. Done about 300 miles in her with nothing really going wrong (WOOD TOUCHED) I still have some wiring to do, gauges etc. Runs a little lean so need to increase the fuel map a little, but all in all seems spot on. Will do more ,a few more miles before a good mapping session. See what boost i can run and then hopefully a rolling road session for a rough power output/idea. :agree::D
Just read this! A lot has been done since i last read it... Niceone!! Glad its running ...hope to see this sometime :cool:
Big Steve - Raider
03-03-2009, 17:05
BEAAAAUUUTTTIIIFFFUUULLLL work Matt!!
Look forward to seeing this at the next event!! :goodJob:
all about the engineering skillz innit!!! :agree:
good luck an hope you get the slag runnin
sweet :):smokin:
Matt, That is looking awesome matey looking forward to hoepfully see it @ Nat Day 09:D
mr bean aka pete
03-03-2009, 18:42
looking really good mat thave you sorted ur oil leak out yet ? and i would make a cover to go where the top mount would be to stop anything flying into the cambelt area :scared:
:)great job there matt , like your project keep up the good work will be good to see it in the flesh:)
Matt Cole
04-03-2009, 13:04
looking really good mat thave you sorted ur oil leak out yet ? and i would make a cover to go where the top mount would be to stop anything flying into the cambelt area :scared:
Thanks chaps, looking forward to an outing soon. Bean, not yet, its not too bad. I will sort it once i have decided on a better clutch etc. As you can imagine it would be a nightmare to take it all back out!
Matt Cole
04-03-2009, 13:15
some mount pictures mainly for Ilker. :D
Top effort Matt. Good darts indeed :agree:
i l k e r
04-03-2009, 14:24
some mount pictures mainly for Ilker. :D
many thanks for the pictures Matt :agree:
the front ones will be easy for me as there's more room in the 11 bay, but the rear one will be a nightmare by the looks of it.
I can't use the original mount point as the 225 box sits much further to the right when looking from the front of the car :sad:
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/attachment.php?attachmentid=1564&d=1236172505
What car is the rubber mount off? looks a little like a cossie mount only ask as I am modifying my rear mount.
Attached pic of a cossie mount
Matt Cole
04-03-2009, 20:55
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/attachment.php?attachmentid=1564&d=1236172505
What car is the rubber mount off? looks a little like a cossie mount only ask as I am modifying my rear mount.
Attached pic of a cossie mount
Its a vibratechnics mount from a valkswagon i think. You could use that cossie mount as it does look similar.
Matt Cole
05-03-2009, 21:48
many thanks for the pictures Matt :agree:
the front ones will be easy for me as there's more room in the 11 bay, but the rear one will be a nightmare by the looks of it.
I can't use the original mount point as the 225 box sits much further to the right when looking from the front of the car :sad:
Ilker, have a look on the other thread Gaz'z megane with 225 lump. he will be using a similar rear mount setup that you may need.:agree:
R5TURBORON
08-03-2009, 10:16
looks sweet nice work let me know when u go santa pod :D
Good day today Mat, she pulls well :)
225 v's 238 below ;)
http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=407&pictureid=5090
Matt Cole
08-03-2009, 21:54
Well, me and the Mr ashy went for a bit of mapping today. Running just under 10 psi(previously 5psi). Got the fueling a little safer for the debbuging period untill the expert does his stuff.;) Its very lively, throws you back in the seat in 5th gear at 80 mph!!! lol, Its a funny drive, isn't as agressive as a gt on full boost, just very smooth with bags of torque all the way through the gears. Hits high speeds very quickly. Ignition map is very vague at the moment so definately improvements to be made there. Loving it more everytime i go out in it!:D
Matt Cole
08-03-2009, 22:00
In order of 1/4 mile top speeds:
1st Matt's 225-5
2nd Matts generator (just in view)
3rd Ashy's bodge
lol :laugh:
Racing for pinks on the 29th them marrow..?
"Ring Ring, Ring Ring", "Errr Ashy, its Matt, sorry not gona be able to make it to Pod on the 29th, the rabbits eaten my car keys!!"
I Can hear it now!! :coffee:
Rob@Backyardracing
08-03-2009, 22:15
Only just noticed its running.... aaarrrrrrrrrrrr where have i been..... TOP TOP work lad.... cant wait to see it out this summer...:agree:
So is there going to be some bracket racing this RTOC pod event.....:agree:
Matt Cole
08-03-2009, 22:23
Only just noticed its running.... aaarrrrrrrrrrrr where have i been..... TOP TOP work lad.... cant wait to see it out this summer...:agree:
So is there going to be some bracket racing this RTOC pod event.....:agree:
Hope fully Ashy's turbo will produce more boost!;)
FurioKid
25-06-2009, 23:39
Just seen this topic and really impressed with the work thats gone into dropping this engine in. would love to do something like this but wouldn't know where to start, great commitment :agree:
Matt Cole
26-06-2009, 13:37
Thanks, Hopefully be at National day!
glad its running mate , good work like the effort u have put it ,be a good runner that now:)
Matt Cole
06-07-2009, 13:11
Bit of an update.
Crank seal was leaking which has now sealed up ok. I was concerned about how deep the scoring was on the crank seal face:
I've also fitted a paddle plate and some decent brakes!!
Matt Cole
12-03-2011, 23:12
Well, about time for an update!:D Engine has been in for a few years, makes decent power, and has been a hoot. Unfortunately, the body work has started to deteriorate, so need to get cracking with the welder :scared:
Matt Cole
12-03-2011, 23:22
Few more pics. Im also planning on pulling the engine out, modify the bay and try and squeeze the 225 gearbox in.:D The idea being plenty more power which the j series i'm sure would spit its gearset out all over the road.
Here's hoping it will fit!;)
Matt Cole
12-03-2011, 23:30
Few more pics of the box and the ridiculously heavy dual mass flywheel:eek:. I'm not sure what to do with the flywheel as the solid steel versions available are a fortune. I'll look at modifying it somehow to reduce its weight and maybe make it one piece.
Engine as it stands now.
R5TURBORON
12-03-2011, 23:33
looking good mate you going national day this year?
Matt Cole
12-03-2011, 23:36
looking good mate you going national day this year?
Yes mate but just for the crack!:crap:
R5TURBORON
12-03-2011, 23:39
I will be there then FCS next day
I'm not sure what to do with the flywheel as the solid steel versions available are a fortune.
Can you not weld it solid?
Matt Cole
12-03-2011, 23:55
Can you not weld it solid?
Not sure marrow. Its got allsorts of gubbins going on in the middle! As said though, its bloody heavy, around 13kg.
Work of art matt great work, would love a 225 in mine, wouldn't mind having a look at it sometime :agree:
Adey aka Ewok
13-03-2011, 07:15
will a 172 fly wheel not bolt to the crank?
A Clio flywheel will fit the crank, however the overall diameter is smaller and the bell housing on the box is larger. So the starter motor would be unable to engage :(
Nice to see you making some good progress Matt if you need a hand give me a shout and I'll have a ride down, my rates are still the same, cups of tea and biscuits :D
i l k e r
13-03-2011, 15:41
Few more pics. Im also planning on pulling the engine out, modify the bay and try and squeeze the 225 gearbox in.:D The idea being plenty more power which the j series i'm sure would spit its gearset out all over the road.
Here's hoping it will fit!;)
good luck fitting that box in there :sad:
even if you manage to get the box in with lots of cutting, you'll have all sorts of trouble with the space for a steering rack :cry:
it would be worth to try and find out where ktec supply their solid flywheels from, as we all know what their profit margins are like :disagree:
good luck with it mate :agree:
Matt Cole
13-03-2011, 18:23
good luck fitting that box in there :sad:
even if you manage to get the box in with lots of cutting, you'll have all sorts of trouble with the space for a steering rack :cry:
it would be worth to try and find out where ktec supply their solid flywheels from, as we all know what their profit margins are like :disagree:
good luck with it mate :agree:
ilker. Is it the overall diameter of the box that caused you issues in the 11? It's only about 25mm longer than the j series by my measurements so I thought about chopping the chasis rail and reinforcing it. If the rack is an issue I guess there are alternatives to look at?
i l k e r
16-03-2011, 15:09
ilker. Is it the overall diameter of the box that caused you issues in the 11? It's only about 25mm longer than the j series by my measurements so I thought about chopping the chasis rail and reinforcing it. If the rack is an issue I guess there are alternatives to look at?
hey Matt,
if you're planning on using the megane driveshafts like I did, they will push the wheels outward so much that you can't get decent camber (read less than -5) without relocating the strut towers and this is on the R11.
the box will fit with some mods to the chassis rail but the differential casing is very bulky and it will hit the steering rack, if I can find a remedy for this I can actually get the car to a driveable condition (not finished) in less than 2 weeks time :(
Matt Cole
16-03-2011, 19:40
hey Matt,
if you're planning on using the megane driveshafts like I did, they will push the wheels outward so much that you can't get decent camber (read less than -5) without relocating the strut towers and this is on the R11.
the box will fit with some mods to the chassis rail but the differential casing is very bulky and it will hit the steering rack, if I can find a remedy for this I can actually get the car to a driveable condition (not finished) in less than 2 weeks time :(
Ilker, cheers for the info. I intend to use custom shafts so hopefully i can get the lengths to pretty much stock camber.
The diff casing does concern me a little. :( I might be able to get a few mm pulling the engine forwards. Not sure yet untill i measure up. After that i guess its looking at different racks and linkages.:agree:
With the VW 1.8T into R5 conversion I had to shift the rack back 10 or 15mm on the nearside for the same reason. Dunno how much your megane box will foul but you can run the rack at a slight angle without any detriment.
Matt Cole
16-03-2011, 20:19
With the VW 1.8T into R5 conversion I had to shift the rack back 10 or 15mm on the nearside for the same reason. Dunno how much your megane box will foul but you can run the rack at a slight angle without any detriment.
Aha!! Cheers Scoff, thats good news. Did you take any pics?
Aha!! Cheers Scoff, thats good news. Did you take any pics?
Nah, it was just me lopping the bracket down by 15mm and welding it back up, nothing picture worthy! The rack bolts up to the subframe at 2 points. the n/s end uses a formed metal bracket. I cut that off, chopped a bit out and welded it back up. I had to grind a bit of an angle on to the cast-allu o/s mounting point so that it didin't strain when I bolted it all back up. The rack sat at a slight angle then but the U/J was in about the same place so it didn't matter. It maybe only gains 8 or 10mm in the area of the diff but it was enough for the VW box.
i l k e r
17-03-2011, 17:41
With the VW 1.8T into R5 conversion I had to shift the rack back 10 or 15mm on the nearside for the same reason. Dunno how much your megane box will foul but you can run the rack at a slight angle without any detriment.
thats good to hear chief :agree:
in my case it's either a wider rack or ultra long track rods, it seems like a wider rack will be the better option as the diff casing fouls the steering rack boot where it's chunkier than the steering rack itself. On a wider rack the boots will be further apart leaving more room between the diff casing and the rack.
I will know for sure once I get my mitts on a megane steering rack :coffee:
Matt Cole
17-03-2011, 21:22
thats good to hear chief :agree:
in my case it's either a wider rack or ultra long track rods, it seems like a wider rack will be the better option as the diff casing fouls the steering rack boot where it's chunkier than the steering rack itself. On a wider rack the boots will be further apart leaving more room between the diff casing and the rack.
I will know for sure once I get my mitts on a megane steering rack :coffee:
Ilker, is the 5 rack the same as the 11's? ie the midle section minus the arms? Will the rack clear if its moved back as Scoff suggested??
Just gauging any issues before i sink!:crap:
Robclio98
17-03-2011, 21:27
Just awesome, love this build! :D
i l k e r
18-03-2011, 05:51
Ilker, is the 5 rack the same as the 11's? ie the midle section minus the arms? Will the rack clear if its moved back as Scoff suggested??
Just gauging any issues before i sink!:crap:
not hundred percent sure but I would say they're the same, I'll check and get back to you.
I don't know how the engine sits in the R5's bay but it would clear in the R11.
Matt Cole
28-03-2011, 13:19
Ok, found a spare 20mins to do a bit of visual / measuring up!:eek:
Duncan Grier
28-03-2011, 13:29
If Scoff is refering to the conversion in my old vag 5 I have finished pictures of various stages inc rack but not sure just how much use they would be over what Chris has already explained?
DG
Matt Cole
28-03-2011, 20:23
Dunc . YOur photos may certainly help with ideas etc. :agree:
Matt Cole
11-04-2011, 13:17
More parts to work with.....................new small turbo!:D
:eek: what a beast :cool:
Matt Cole
12-04-2011, 11:35
:eek: what a beast :cool:
Yes it is! I use it as a pillow:D
Yes it is! I use it as a pillow:D
Is that when you're in the dog house for spending too much money on the rust bucket :cooter:
P.S. Fancy a look to Jumbo Jungle on Sat / Sun?
Matt Cole
19-09-2011, 13:47
Ok, been a while so thought i'd update this thread with a little progress of the NDO gearbox fitting. Engine and box are in, mounts are in rough position. Just need to agree with myself that this will be the final resting place before i weld everything together!:eek: I have provision for 5 mounts, front right gearbox lower not shown as i'm not sure if it will be needed.
Some pics:
R5TURBORON
19-09-2011, 15:25
Looking good mate
Matt Cole
20-09-2011, 11:21
lets get craking matt :)
I'm trying matey, but spare time is like gold dust these days!:(
Matt Cole
25-09-2012, 13:07
Well its been a while and Scoffs rolling road day has helped a little with enthusiasm, so i thought i would unwrap some bits and make a start with the plans.................:agree:
Duncan Grier
25-09-2012, 14:15
I think you need a bigger i/c :D:cool:
Looks good, sure it will be worth all the hard work and you def need a fresh bit of enthusiasm from time to time to get stuff moving again
Enjoy :agree:
DG
Matt Cole
09-04-2013, 14:06
Small update pics. I have started the mounts. Engine is now sat where its needed with enough clearence all round. Hope fully me and the Ashman will get cracking this weekend! ;)
Matt Cole
09-04-2013, 14:17
and some more:
Woznaldo
11-04-2013, 11:07
Awesome work Matt, this car is really coming along. Love your work! :cool:
looking good mate!
i wonder how the BW is going to perform. they're pretty cheap but are supposed to do a good job!
i want to use one in the future too but if funds allow i'll probably go efr 7670 right away.
good luck with the build!
Matt-chew, did you pick up the half shafts yet?
Matt Cole
11-04-2013, 19:53
Matt-chew, did you pick up the half shafts yet?
Nope marrow, are we still on?
this is like a never ending story :)
How much power will the 225 box handle matt? From what i read the lads are upgrading to the vag boxes when looking for big power?
Matt Cole
11-04-2013, 23:03
How much power will the 225 box handle matt? From what i read the lads are upgrading to the vag boxes when looking for big power?
Seems to be plenty of decent powered meganes. Im led to believe rs tunings r26 had over 500bhp.
Vag boxes pah!:D
Matt Cole
30-04-2013, 09:37
Steady progress, engine mounts pretty much done and solid. manifold all welded up and trial fitted turbo to start fabricating the exhaust manifold.:D
Matt Cole
09-07-2013, 12:48
Quick progress shot of the exhaust manifold now tacked up.
andybond
09-07-2013, 13:11
to believe rs tunings r26 had over 500bhp.
and had the box rebuilt due to stripping 3rd gear ;)
Matt Cole
09-07-2013, 19:36
Wasting my time then?
andybond
09-07-2013, 21:23
Wasting my time then?
I am going to pop into RST this week ( possibly tomorrow ) Ill speak to Paul then
ETA :
I have spoken to paul this morning. His failed when the torque was around 430ibft.
Recommends using a VAG box.
Matt Cole
15-07-2013, 00:12
Ok. Thanks for the info. Which box does he recommend? Is paul suggesting that the vag box is definately stronger than the ndo? I know the o2j strips gears at high torque.
Matt Cole
15-07-2013, 13:10
All seems to fit ok. Im mocking up other stuff in the bay before everything finalised with welding up tight.:agree:
Looks great mate!
The 02m sixspeed gearbox handles a lot more! Reports of 800bhp+ without breaking.
Plus you have alot more clutch options.
I currently have a sprung clutchnet organic center with sachs sre pressure plate.
Will hold around 400lb/ft with stocklike clutch feel.
Be warned though, the 02m is known for rattles/chatter with a singe mass flywheel.
Mine does it pretty bad unfortunately....
Matt Cole
15-07-2013, 19:16
Cheers squire. Yeah im sure the O2m would have been the way to go. Hind sight etc. It was a choice I had but decided to go for the ndo as it fits the block as reno intended. Plus I already had the box. 400ftlb is more than enough for me for a start so happy with that. I also like the idea of eventually fitting the lsd from the r26.
See how it goes I guess. :agree:
andybond
15-07-2013, 22:27
Ok. Thanks for the info. Which box does he recommend? Is paul suggesting that the vag box is definately stronger than the ndo? I know the o2j strips gears at high torque.
o2m, but uprated internals.
Matt Cole
15-10-2013, 12:58
Small update, downpipe tacked up and drive shafts on.
Nad-5GTT
15-10-2013, 13:08
How ironic I have literally just read the whole thread and was thinking it's about time some updates were put up and you just have :) epic build. Have you finished the rust issues yet?
Matt Cole
15-10-2013, 13:12
How ironic I have literally just read the whole thread and was thinking it's about time some updates were put up and you just have :) epic build. Have you finished the rust issues yet?
Ha,im a slow worker mate, although things are speeding up again!:D
This is a different shell matey. I still have the white one and will replace all the panels when i finish this one.
This is like a massive iceberg this car. Glacial progression but beautiful to look at.
Matt Cole
15-10-2013, 19:13
This is like a massive iceberg this car. Glacial progression but beautiful to look at.
Cheers Trev. I'll take that as a compliment! :laugh:
Looking good Matt, I look forward to see what you get from the turbo :cool:
Matt Cole
16-10-2013, 19:57
Looking good Matt, I look forward to see what you get from the turbo :cool:
Cheers matt. Hopefully it will produce some boost!:D
Matt Cole
29-12-2014, 21:00
Thought I may as well show you a couple of progress pics. Should be ready for 2015!;)
Wow Matt that's looking good, Turbo is massive:agree:
is it as big as mikes james??:agree:
great work matt:agree:
lets av it ready for pod 2015 sir:agree:
Nice! Although that turbo looks a bit on the small side! :wasntme:
Matt Cole
29-12-2014, 21:35
Current engine spec is fully rebuilt and forged f4rt block with one off rods, clio 172 head fully rebuilt with new guides, supertec valves ( inconel exhaust and steel nitrides intakes) , catcam uprated springs, three angle valve seats. Catcam vernier, 182/197 cams with tweaked timing, Honda timing belt!
Lots of other bits I can't remember :crap:
is it as big as mikes james??:agree:
great work matt:agree:
lets av it ready for pod 2015 sir:agree:
Looks bigger and Mike's turbo looked massive compared to my little T28:laugh:
Matt Cole
29-12-2014, 23:32
Turbo is a borg Warner s200sx twin scroll, extended tip compressor and a 1.0a/r rear. Good for 600bhp!:D:D
only a tad bigger than the 3071r then:laugh:
Woznaldo
30-12-2014, 11:03
That's the Kim Kardashian of turbos. The rear end is huge!! :D
LeeR5GTT
30-12-2014, 11:18
Love this :cool:
Matt Cole
30-12-2014, 11:45
Thanks guts. ;)
It's slow progress but getting there now. :D
Looking good matt,although I thought it would be up and running:D
rabbitstew
30-12-2014, 12:18
Awesome work!
Matt Cole
30-12-2014, 19:47
Fitted fuel rail and attached dipstick. Also got bonnet to fit but only just!:eek: the engine sits upright and quite high to clear the ndo gearbox diff.
Steven Leece
30-12-2014, 20:05
Looks good Matt!
Loads of room under that bonnet!!
Matt Cole
31-12-2014, 16:11
Just picked up a drive belt from a Toyota aygo! This car is a heinz 57.;)
Fitted fuel rail and attached dipstick. Also got bonnet to fit but only just!:eek: the engine sits upright and quite high to clear the ndo gearbox diff.
Looking good Matt Chew. :cool:
B18ftMOJO5
31-12-2014, 20:26
Love this thread cant wait to see this car on the road.:agree:
Matt Cole
08-01-2015, 00:05
Fitted drive belt. All good for clearence now. Just need go make some sort of belt tensioner.:)
Matt Cole
11-01-2015, 19:21
Pulled together a down pipe and exhaust today. Seems to be enough room. I've gone for an 18" silencer to get it somewhere near tolerable.
3" under the car makes it sit quite low especially at the back under the sill as it exits before the rear wheel. Not sure if it's going to give me grief on thatchers British roads :sad2:
It's cabled tied up and tack welded for the moment. I will take it back off and fully weld up once I'm happy.
More pics to follow but here's a couple of it fitted:
Matt Cole
11-01-2015, 22:57
I'm aching from rolling under the car most of the day :cry:
Top work gonna be a beast of a car :agree:
rabbitstew
12-01-2015, 11:47
That exhaust looks like you thieved it from some scania lorry!
Quality stuff! gonna be a beast!
you going to route the wastegates back in or will it be a screamer?
Matt Cole
13-01-2015, 13:03
you going to route the wastegates back in or will it be a screamer?
Back into the down pipe Arthur.
The problem is im old, and screamers do not go with the image!:D
I have two flexi fittings to weld inline and prevent the discharge pipes from cracking.
Just ordered 880cc injectors too!:D
what's your power goal? iirc 3"would be sufficient to about 550bhp with wastegate routed back in.
i'm more of a fan of rerouted wastegates too, with screamers it just doesn't sound like a piston engine anymore:crap:
Matt Cole
14-01-2015, 07:44
what's your power goal? iirc 3"would be sufficient to about 550bhp with wastegate routed back in.
i'm more of a fan of rerouted wastegates too, with screamers it just doesn't sound like a piston engine anymore:crap:
Arthur,
Anything over 450bhp I would be happy although the spec should be capable of 600bhp!:)
It's funny you mention returning the discharges to the down pipe, I have not understood the correlation on max hp using this method?
Matt Cole
14-01-2015, 07:49
I have also been considering the best method of fuel supply. On my old set up I had a 3 port regulator, 1 supply from the tank, a return to the tank and 1 supply from the regulator to the fuel rail. It worked ok with the added benefit of only having one supply line to the rail and no return from the rail, ie no flow through the rail.
I could pipe it up with a flow and return through the rail but unsure of the benefit of doing this. Plus added heat is carried back to the tank from the engine bay.
Thoughts?
When having screamers a part of the exhaust gas doesn't have to go through the exhaust so you will be able to make more horsepower through the same exhaust
Matt Cole
18-01-2015, 19:29
Finished drive shafts today.:D
Matt Cole
23-02-2015, 23:14
Progress is slow but I have a bumper and intercooler:)
I've also nearly finished the waste gates discharge pipes back into the downpipe. It's a bit of a torturous route but hopefully should work ok.:agree:
Matt Cole
01-01-2016, 16:27
Cracking on for 2016, I had to pull the lump to finish making turbo and downpipe support bars. The Borg Warner is very heavy and I didn't want the risk of the manifold drooping when extreme temperatures are seen. I've also finished off my intercooler support box section and brackets.
Matt Cole
01-01-2016, 16:29
I've also finished the oil return setup and modified a starter heats held to fit it all nicely.;)
This is going to be such a monster!
I think I missed your pics in Feb last yr. AJ Tuning front bumper. Not many of them around these days :) Cool to mix it with a ph1 grille.
Matt Cole
02-01-2016, 22:08
This is going to be such a monster!
I think I missed your pics in Feb last yr. AJ Tuning front bumper. Not many of them around these days :) Cool to mix it with a ph1 grille.
It's sort of growing on me trev. I really didn't want to change the bumper but I have no room for a large cooler and standard bumper. I'm going to modify the bumper to incorporate the standard fogs and red strips. Will paint the whole kit the standard textured grey.
Looking forward to seeing this up and running :agree: looking very very nice. Keep up the good work Matt:agree:
Matt Cole
03-01-2016, 23:35
Well today was a long shift. Had a right ball ache fitting the waste gates but all done now.;)
Matt Cole
03-01-2016, 23:42
No idea why the pics are upside down!:mad:
Matt Cole
07-02-2016, 20:35
Quick update: lots of things fitted!;)
turbo ted
07-02-2016, 23:28
Looking good Matt that exhaust housing on the turbo looks huge mate :)
Matt Cole
08-02-2016, 12:36
Looking good Matt that exhaust housing on the turbo looks huge mate :)
:D cheers Rob.
Yes the Ex housing is physically big. The turbo is twin scroll with a 1.00 A/R housing. My thoughts are that the compressor side uses extended tip 56mm inducer, 76mm exducer coupled to a 10 blade exhaust wheel so should (in theory) boost quite quickly and shift some gas! The BW is comparable with the GTX3071r albeit out spools it based on the design.
I hope..................;)
Matt Cole
22-02-2016, 08:51
Started the wiring!:crap:
Started the wiring!:crap:
Always the fun part, you on Adaptronic? and then fun never ends when wired in you then need to calibrate the sensor's :laugh: and then base map although you might have that already as I think this has been run before but very different spec:agree:
Matt Cole
23-02-2016, 14:39
Always the fun part, you on Adaptronic? and then fun never ends when wired in you then need to calibrate the sensor's :laugh: and then base map although you might have that already as I think this has been run before but very different spec:agree:
Yes James on adaptronic 420. I need help setting up the crank angles in the table. I cannot remember how to do it!:cry:
Matt Cole
05-03-2016, 21:28
And here we have the engine and wiring nearly complete. Couple of auxiliaries to wire in from the adaptronic.
And here we have the engine and wiring nearly complete. Couple of auxiliaries to wire in from the adaptronic.
Looking good can't wait to see this.
Ref crank angles, you still using the previous map for this engine? if so then it's just a case of using a timing gun enter the value the light flashes same time as TDC mark passes enter the value into WARI wizard and it will do the rest for you
Matt Cole
05-03-2016, 22:18
Cheers James. Yes same map but different gearbox and flywheel. I guess I'm going to have to start from scratch. How do you find the angles? My old timing gun has died. The adaptronic 420b/c has the tables as you say but I'm not sure on what to enter as a start!:crap:
Cheers James. Yes same map but different gearbox and flywheel. I guess I'm going to have to start from scratch. How do you find the angles? My old timing gun has died. The adaptronic 420b/c has the tables as you say but I'm not sure on what to enter as a start!:crap:
Hmm, gearbox won't make any difference to getting it running its the flywheel tooth pattern
is it still 60-2 fly still?
Matt Cole
05-03-2016, 23:14
It's a Megan 225 patern solid flywheel so I guess still a 60-2
This install looks fabulous Matt :agree:
Matt Cole
06-03-2016, 11:33
This install looks fabulous Matt :agree:
Thanks Trevor. It's been a labour of pain and a lot harder than I first envisaged.:eek:
I've tried to keep the build cost down, so you won't see over the top priced parts such as tial gates etc and fortunes spent on bling.;)
Matt Cole
20-03-2016, 09:26
It's alive!
https://youtu.be/4K66-8KXlWs
:D
great work matt
you best get this to pod:wasntme:
Matt Cole
26-03-2016, 19:10
great work matt
you best get this to pod:wasntme:
Not quite Mick. Had to take the cat cams pulley off......:crap:
Not quite Mick. Had to take the cat cams pulley off......:crap:
why matey whats up?
Is that cracking I can see in the pic?! :confused:
Mick - My post in the magic sponge detailing thread today - I hadn't even noticed it was in articles. I just thought Pete had put a load of open discussion threads up in a new section. Apols :agree:
Matt Cole
26-03-2016, 20:20
Is that cracking I can see in the pic?! :confused:
Mick - My post in the magic sponge detailing thread today - I hadn't even noticed it was in articles. I just thought Pete had put a load of open discussion threads up in a new section. Apols :agree:
Yes cracked at the centre. I'm so pissed off!:mad:
Matt Cole
17-04-2016, 22:02
Well, catcams replaced my pulley with something much better.:)
Re timed and all back together. I've also modified the cover so I can play with the timing. At the moment it's set at 4 cam degrees of advance.;)
Matt Cole
21-09-2016, 07:24
Well, thought i would update this thread as it's nearly done. :) its been a really difficult conversion and one i would say.....never again.
Just needs an mot, tax and insurance:-
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It looks awesome :smokin:
Well done :agree: What would you say has been the most difficult part of this particular conversion?
With seeing all these excellent engine swaps, I am swaying towards doing an engine conversion in the future but would most likley look at f7r or f4r then turbo them
Awesome work Matt, I'd really like to see this in the flesh. It looks like it's been a mission and a half to get it fitted and up and running - well worth it though. Let us know how the MOT goes!
This just looks like an absolute animal and it doesn't look like other any GTT I've seen either. Fantastic effort Matt. You should be proud. :agree:
Get some more vids up when you can once it's on the road and all set-up etc. :cool:
Matt Cole
21-09-2016, 12:52
Thank you for all the kind words guys! :D I will of course get some updates etc. and keep you all in the loop. :agree:
Hopefully reading back through the history of this thread you may gather that the most challenging part was fitting in an NDO 6 speed gearbox. Yes, I know the VAG conversion is tried and tested and requires less work, but I wanted to keep it all Renault and no one else had attempted to do it. The diff is quite big and fouls everything, so quite a bit of modification to the chassis leg, sub frame needed to be undertaken. The engine is sat almost upright and forwards to clear the diff! The 172 head is married to the F4RT block which isn't a straightforward fit as some might say :crap:
I then had quite a bit of space for a full equal length twin scroll tubular manifold design. Its not the best in fabrication terms and I would like to improve on it in the future.
Matt Cole
27-11-2016, 09:59
As winter is now here I didn't think there is much point in taxing and testing the 5 as I probably wouldn't get much use. So over the winter I'm going to do a few further improvements mainly to the interior. I thought I would fill some more holes in the centre console :D:-
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this better be at pod or ill be very disappointed in you MR Cole!! pmsl:wasntme::wasntme:
Matt Cole
28-11-2016, 18:48
That's the plan Mick unless something horribe happens......:crap:
Matt Cole
14-01-2017, 18:13
Today I decided to look at the suspension a little. Heavy and hard acceleration can cause all sorts of grief for the wishbones. I decided to steal turbo teds idea of using drop links. Hopefully should prevent the wheels bouncing and offer a little stability on the wishbones.
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Matt Cole
15-01-2017, 18:46
Bit more today, decided to duct fresh air to the heater box. Hopefully this will improve diluting smells entering the cabin, due to having no bulk head.;)3094130942
Looks like one of the heater tubes from inside the car, love the idea!
Matt Cole
28-03-2017, 22:09
Couple of 100 miles done and I'm using it for work!:D
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Matt Cole
27-11-2017, 21:26
Seen a mention so decided to add more pics. I'm on with swapping to 172 hubs at the moment. Will update thread.
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dickiegtt
07-12-2017, 22:39
Please do. Well done on what is a truely great build, very testing but so worth it.:worship::
Like Trevhib said the look of the car is special and I love how you have kept it all Renault as well:agree:
evening Matt, trying to locate your 172 hub conversion, think you need to add it to this thread :-)
Matt Cole
13-05-2019, 20:26
Breaking GT driveshafts was inevitable, so on with a 172 hub conversion:
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Horrible things:
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And all fitted:
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The hubs are much bigger than the GT's. They also give about 7.2mm extra track each side. I machined the stubs down so that a GT shock could be fitted, but also drilled the shock mounting bolt holes from 16mm to 19mm, and then used the Clio shocker bolts. I had custom one piece shafts made up. I did fabricate my own initially and drove around on them to make sure everything worked as required.
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The Hi spec caliper rear bodies had to be changed to fit the 172 hub flange with new seals and recon pistons:
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Matt Cole
13-05-2019, 20:35
I wasnt happy with my original manifold so decided to fabricate a new one using a single 50mm wastegate with a divided collector.
New TS 50mm wastegate:
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and on with the manifold fabrication using sch10 pipework:
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The waste gate is left open ended (screamer) and exits under the car :wasntme:
Matt Cole
13-05-2019, 20:47
The fuel system needed an upgrade as having no decent tank baffle would make exiting a roundabout difficult with the fuel starvation. I fitted a swirl tank and upgraded all the fuel lines to 10mm ID:
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This set up is underneath the car in place of the reserve fuel tank. Im using a Sytec "044" equivalent. Its very noisy! You will see i added rubber mounts to the pump. These made a huge difference to the noise in the car.
Matt Cole
13-05-2019, 20:53
The one thing about this conversion is carrying the extra weight of the engine , box and turbo. It has a tendency to move. I had 5 mounts which were ok, but decided to add a 6th:
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The only issue now is i get increased vibration in the cabin. Its almost like its solid mounted! The engine is pretty much solid now with just enough give to allow some parts of the drive train a bit of an easier time.:)
Matt Cole
13-05-2019, 20:57
Although i dint have a problem, upping the boost might cause the engine to breath heavier. I needed to relieve the pressure by modifying the crank breather cover. I figured that running two large bore pipes would increase the overall volume for the gas to escape, but still keep the effectiveness of the oil baffles:
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The last image is work in progress showing only the one pipe to the catch tank.
Matt Cole
13-05-2019, 21:05
Picture of the engine bay roughly as it is today:
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The keen eyes amongst you might notice that the bulk head/firewall has been re-instated. Made a massive difference to keeping fumes out of the cabin.
Matt Cole
13-05-2019, 21:25
New exhaust time!! :D The 3" side exit was doing my head in and i didn't like the rear bumper having no tail pipe. I decided to make my own full 3" system all the way to the back:
Angle off the back box to go over the rear beam. Note the intricate shapes to make the fillet:
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Lots of bendy bits:
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Comparison next to an old scorpion i had lying around:
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Fitted onto the car and over the rear beam:
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One of the worst jobs ive had the pleasure of doing on the car!!!:cry:
Matt Cole
13-05-2019, 21:35
And a couple of pics for those that have not seen it complete. I took these for the agreed value insurance:
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The seats are from an Impreza bog eye. Not the easiest to fit at all :scared:
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Matt Cole
13-05-2019, 21:39
In April, it went for mapping to Lord Scoffs at EFI parts. Chris is an absolute pro and highly recommended:
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And the result was 441bhp at 21PSI :D
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Comments always welcome on the graph, especially the curve and power band. If i had more time on the rollers, we could have re-gapped the plugs and played with the cam timing, but essential, there is bags of turbo and injector left, so it could make more power. The only limiting factor will be the clutch. :agree:
dmiller1
14-05-2019, 18:14
:love:.:love::love:wow Matt, that car is stunning. I cant even imagine 400bhp in a 5
dickiegtt
14-05-2019, 21:47
Absolutely stunning work you are another legendary rtoc member and I am in ore yet again. I haven’t read through this since 2017 so I can’t remember what sort of power are you going for, surely that is enough and it going to hard enough to exploit it as it is on the road but loads of fun learning to master nevertheless :D what psi will that turbo go up to and you are getting 441bhp @ 21 psi now?
Matt Cole
19-05-2019, 12:51
Absolutely stunning work you are another legendary rtoc member and I am in ore yet again. I haven’t read through this since 2017 so I can’t remember what sort of power are you going for, surely that is enough and it going to hard enough to exploit it as it is on the road but loads of fun learning to master nevertheless :D what psi will that turbo go up to and you are getting 441bhp @ 21 psi now?
Hi Dickie,
I said anything over 400bhp was ok. The turbo can do 2.5bar easily, so another bar of boost would see it over 500 i imagine.
Yes 441bhp at 21psi currently. I think my clutch would struggle beyond this so leaving as is for now. :D
Matt Cole
06-10-2019, 13:41
All is very well. Couple of winter servicing jobs to do such as cam belt and dephaser. I have a small crack in the inlet manifold runner, so will need to get that sorted.:crap:
My next challenge is power steering options. Im looking at EPAS, possibly from a Clio 2 1.2/DCI. The issue is fitting the motor and top of column within the GT dash without hacking anything to extreme.
Ill be looking at options for this over the next few weeks. :D
Finally got to read the thread from start to finish :laugh: ... well done matey :)
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