View Full Version : bigger power bigger brakes
hi guys,
i know this has been discussed several times, but im at the that point where i would like to sort my brakes out.
i have purchased new front and rear calipers, and goodridge brake line kit.
now my question is whats the difference between ktecs big brake conversion and cgb big brake conversion and something like the one on ebay.
here are the three, your advice would be appreciated.
http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=27
http://www.cgbmotorsport.net/285mm-big-front-brake-conversion-521-p.asp
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RENAULT-5-GT-TURBO-BIG-BRAKE-CONVERSION-DISCS-EBC-PADS_W0QQitemZ360078907315QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item 360078907315&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1121%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318
now my question is whats the difference between ktecs big brake conversion and cgb big brake conversion and something like the one on ebay.
The price.
It has been discussed several times, and the general consensous each time is that standard size discs with good pads are adequate enough, even on track.
If you do want to go the 285mm route, you could save money by sourcing the discs yourself & asking Ricardo if he can get some caliper extenders made up again.
The price.
It has been discussed several times, and the general consensous each time is that standard size discs with good pads are adequate enough, even on track.
If you do want to go the 285mm route, you could save money by sourcing the discs yourself & asking Ricardo if he can get some caliper extenders made up again.
you say standard is good enough, but surely with more power you should want/need better/bigger brakes. :D
ive been trying to purchase just the extenders for a while with no luck. :(
so the only difference is price, im sure ive heard of problems in fitting k-tec's big brake conversion or maybe not!?
I was running fairly big power on my old GTT (proven over 200), all i did was put some DS2500 & some EBC discs on, never needed anything else, i know DS2500 are expensive but IMHO are one of the best upgrades you can do.
HTH
Steve
you say standard is good enough, but surely with more power you should want/need better/bigger brakes.
The keywords are 'good pads'.
Plenty of gtt track cars running std size discs with no probs, as did all the Cup cars back in the day.
*Yellow*
10-11-2008, 09:37
I was running fairly big power on my old GTT (proven over 200), all i did was put some DS2500 & some EBC discs on, never needed anything else, i know DS2500 are expensive but IMHO are one of the best upgrades you can do.
HTH
Steve
Not as much power as Steves..... same set up, pads etc and in 15 min race on track no braking issues at all.
Guybrush
10-11-2008, 09:38
i have purchased new front and rear calipers, and goodridge brake line kit.
like mart says, you shouldn't have any problems with the standard size brake setup.
get some grooved discs on and some decent pads. brembo used to do a set of discs for much cheapness, as for pads i use mintex ones now but have used pagid ones in the past with no problems.
[quote=Mart;19254]The keywords are 'good pads'.
so standard size grooved brembo discs and DS2500 pads, is this a good combo?
I use standard discs & good pads, more than enough power on the road/track. No need to spend any more money...
where is the best place to purchase the pads, cgb dont sell them.
Guybrush
10-11-2008, 12:31
where is the best place to purchase the pads, cgb dont sell them.
gsf would be my first choice, then eurocarparts, then your local motor factors.
since when would you look at cgb for service parts, i though they just knock out salvaged parts they've cleaned up or chromed?
Ill doubt you will get decent performance pads from a motorfactor shop, or if they can get them you will have to pay them a cut for ordering them in from tweeks etc, been there been conned before.
Demon tweeks sell the Ferodo ds2500 front pads, i got a set from there a while back. Between £60-70, might be able to get them cheaper eslewhere, i needed them asap & they had them in stock.
I use Mintex 1144, Cheaper & perform really well. Got them from rally design.
Guybrush
10-11-2008, 12:49
Ill doubt you will get decent performance pads from a motorfactor shop, or if they can get them you will have to pay them a cut for ordering them in from tweeks etc, been there been conned before.
Demon tweeks sell the Ferodo ds2500 front pads, i got a set from there a while back. Between £60-70, might be able to get them cheaper eslewhere, i needed them asap & they had them in stock.
I use Mintex 1144, Cheaper & perform really well. Got them from rally design.
Think you'd be surprised as to how sort of pads you can get from them.... (Altough DS2500's may be a big ask) :)
Tweeks :crap: Well expensive.
As far as im aware gsf & euro car parts only stock ebc (crap) pads these days.. the decent pads will have to come from somewhere else. Anything that's non stock for a motorfactors gets ordered in...at a price which usually always works out more than any mail order place.
Do GSF still stock/supply Pagid pads? They were a good road & track pad...
gsf do mintex extreme as well.
TTMDB1628X IS THE PART NUMBER.
Guybrush
10-11-2008, 13:21
gsf do mintex extreme as well.
TTMDB1628X IS THE PART NUMBER.
Thats what i use :agree::agree:
GSF used to sell Pagid a couple of years ago.
From reading some reviews, the DS2500's do sound the nuts tho :D
Andrew Cooke
10-11-2008, 13:28
big disks sound sexy, and with cheap pads they don't cost that much more than a decent standard disk with DS2500s, bang for buck the big disks don't get close. I wouldn't bother with grooves or holes, they cost money, and I can't see what they do.
I've just ordered new disks and pads for the micra, I figure it's time, they've been on there since 1989. Disks £3.25 each, pads £5.11 +VAT :cool:
Not a 5 but the GTA has tiny discs by todays standards ..................and weighs a hell of a lot more than a 5 .
Two separate circuits, servoassisted, hydraulically operated. Brake pressure limiter acts on rear circuit. Brake fluid level indicator.
Ventilated discs, 10.2in. diameter, 20mm thick
44.3 sq.in.
Ventilated discs, 10.2in. diameter, 20mm thick
44.3 sq.in.
Vacuum type, 7.0in. diameter.
I've put elliptical grooved fronts with DS2500 on the front and rotor grooved rears with std type Mintex pads on the back .They are excellent ,better than the BIG braked GTA guys I'm told after some 0-60-0 runs at Bruntingthorpe 10.4 compared to 14s for the others including a deisel 08 Megane thing :D They don't go off that much round track either .
All the big brake kits for the GTA require larger than the std 15" wheels so you're looking at about £3000 to do it if you have stds :eek:
It was a no brainer and seems to be the better option .
A wise person suggested that for BIG brakes to be of any real benifit you should also be uprating the master cylinder ???
These big break conversions still use the stock calipers, which is where the stopping power is in my opinion. So you'd be buying a larger disc for no reason...
James George
10-11-2008, 19:45
shame you can't get the pagid fast road pad any more, they were top value from GSF and worked well. the ferodo ds2500 stop really well, however I found at mallory they got soo bloody hot. on standard discs on track probably needed cooling ducts. surely bigger discs with ds2500 pads gotta be a good shout?
Andrew Cooke
10-11-2008, 19:57
shame you can't get the pagid fast road pad any more, they were top value from GSF and worked well. the ferodo ds2500 stop really well, however I found at mallory they got soo bloody hot. on standard discs on track probably needed cooling ducts. surely bigger discs with ds2500 pads gotta be a good shout?
Personally if I was serious about playing on a circuit I'd fit DS3000+ pads, to me the DS2500 is a fast road pad (and hillclimb of course). But you're right, on a track you could probably do with blowing some air in there. Big disks are more weight, it's going to be better if you can manage without using them.
James George
10-11-2008, 20:34
Personally if I was serious about playing on a circuit I'd fit DS3000+ pads, to me the DS2500 is a fast road pad (and hillclimb of course). But you're right, on a track you could probably do with blowing some air in there. Big disks are more weight, it's going to be better if you can manage without using them.
yeah the agree the ds2500 are great on hills, just was curious on the thoughts that everyone thinks std setup (albeit with good pads) fine on track as I felt I was gonna kill the brakes with heat in not so many laps. did the cup cars have brake ducts?
Andrew Cooke
10-11-2008, 20:36
did the cup cars have brake ducts?
yes
shame you can't get the pagid fast road pad any more, they were top value from GSF and worked well. the ferodo ds2500 stop really well, however I found at mallory they got soo bloody hot. on standard discs on track probably needed cooling ducts. surely bigger discs with ds2500 pads gotta be a good shout?
When i done rockingham last year in my gtt i had the ds2500 pads, had the discs glowing!
I think it was due to the turbines not letting enough airflow to the brakes, ducts would help. Still worked excellent though. A load of hot dust like stuff off the pads/discs went all over the slotted bits of the wheels, never to come off without sandpaper:laugh:
the Ferodos sound like a quality pad.......what about Carbon Lorraine ? , i know Adey runs them on his 172 and his experience has been really good......I know you can get Carbon Lorraines for the 5 aswell.....any thoughts ???
Cheers
The Ferodos i have a supplier who can get hold of them well so he says, does anyone know a part number of them as ive not got a Ferodo book :(
the Ferodos sound like a quality pad.......what about Carbon Lorraine ? , i know Adey runs them on his 172 and his experience has been really good......I know you can get Carbon Lorraines for the 5 aswell.....any thoughts ???
Cheers
Supposedly a very good pad. Adey was waxing lyrical about them at ND, and his car seemed to be doing the braking business all day without any issues.
K-tec are the UK official distributor for them.
The Ferodos i have a supplier who can get hold of them well so he says, does anyone know a part number of them as ive not got a Ferodo book :(
Right spoke to my mate and Ferrodo won't sell them to him, they leave Italy and arrive in the UK then get distributed to Demon Tweeks and Circuit Supplies Ltd (01525) 385 888. :(
Woznaldo
11-11-2008, 09:52
Considering the effect of unsprung weight on the handling of the car, here are a few weights of brake discs:
Std 5 GTT - 238mm dia 20mm thick - 4.3kg
Clio 172/182 - 280mm dia 24mm thick - 7.3kg
285 Big Disc - 285mm dia 21mm thick - 7.0kg ish
300 2 piece - 300mm dia 24 thick - 6.0kg ish (would need alloy caliper of 1.7kg)
I would guess that the std caliper would weigh in at 2.5kg each?
Brake ducts and tubing would weigh no more than 1.0kg but, are not part of the unsprung weight.
Food for thought.:D
Before Tweeks & the such like get their hands on them, they're distributed via:
Performance Parts Direct,
Unit 2 Hawley Trading Est,
Hawley Lane,
Farnborough,
Hampshire.
GU14 8EH.
Tel: 0845-3451487
Apparently :D
I have some DS2500 pads for sale, minimal wear as they didn't do that many miles...
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