front splitters and rear spoilers

[HAndy]

has anybody experimented with the above on a 5 gtt, or any renault model, i know the 5 is as aero dynamic as a brick,but there must be a reason why renault fitted them to the turbo 2 maxi production racer (rwd)and the clio maxi (fwd), also Tony H from prima used a clio type spoiler on his hill climb/type events renault 5gtt.

would these not help give more high speed stability and better traction,more for track use on longer high speed straights and higher speed corners,

thinking of perhaps fitting an adjustable rear wing to my car and making an adjustable alloy splitter that i can bolt to the front subframe with some tie rods attached to the splitter and bolted through the front slam panel something like this

http://www.carbonmods.co.uk/Products/Universal-Carbon-Fibre-Front-Splitter-Kit__CMUNSPLT001.aspx#


http://www.carbonmods.co.uk/Images/products/medium/stainless-steel-tie-bars.jpg

but without the expense, and perhaps the flex from a carbon fibre type, where an alloy plate or fibreglass covered ply splitter might work better /not flex

thoughts anyone:scratch:

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

Depends on what you want to use it for......Racing?

[HAndy]

just thought i add a few piccys i found

http://silverstone.fortunecity.com/studebaker/677/renault/riviera/renault5turbo2.jpg

http://www.riminituning.it/img/bott/rally/bolidi/foto_max/5turbo_4max.jpg

http://idata.over-blog.com/0/00/54/96/voiture2.jpg

http://renault.man.free.fr/sorties/wsrzolder2007/DSCF0010.JPG

http://www.motorimania.it/manifestazioni/auto_storiche/images_renault_5turbo/renault_5_maxi_turbo_11.jpg

http://images.forum-auto.com/mesimages/314508/bousquet%20r5t2%20charade85.jpg

this ones a bit extreme:laugh::laugh:
http://bmauclaire.free.fr/rallyes/La205/205_t16pikespeak.jpg

http://renault.man.free.fr/sorties/wsrzolder2007/DSCF0018.JPG

http://silkrallyradio.biz/images/ClioMaxicthru.jpg


have noticed that most of the turbo2's are using what looks like dam effect front bumpers

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

Note, different types of aero, for different types of racing.....some CFD programs can be downloaded off the net, then use the application for what you intend to use the car for.

[HAndy]

Depends on what you want to use it for......Racing?

hard track use :)

[HAndy]

something to pull the front of the car down at higher speeds ,and on the back which will help with higher speed traction/stability if that helps :laugh:

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

Get a CFD program.

[HAndy]

think ive found the solution to my question
http://toiletteam.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/294104_cfd5babe-d05f-4043-91b1-5f914b066db3_prod.jpg

joking aside got any links for free cfd's Matt

cant find any:scratch:

[HAndy]

[QUOTE=HAndy;191321]think ive found the solution to my question
http://toiletteam.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/294104_cfd5babe-d05f-4043-91b1-5f914b066db3_prod.jpg

and if that does'nt work ,i can always fit these bad boys:laugh::laugh:

http://toiletteam.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/spoiler_funny_03.jpg

[HAndy]

http://toiletteam.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/spoiler_funny_03.jpg[/QUOTE]

wiv da dulux in it:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

I bought a book written by Simon Mcbeath about aero, this had a simple cd rom with a CFD prog. included in the book.

But your right, there used to be a simple free program off the net..... Can't see any now!!! It was an American site, I'll try and find it.

Basically, the R5 is like a cater/field 7, hits an aerodynamic brick wall at 100mph, if you can evacuate the front wheel arches and stop high speed lift, it helps.
Cardboard box technology also helps at the rear. (tear the back out of a cardboard box and push it forwards, it naturally sucks to the floor, the same can be applied to the R5).

Fitting a splitter is fine at the front, but you will have to experiment with frontal protrusion and splitter heights to get it right.

Spoiler at the back, same problem as above, expensive to get right, probably some wool tufts could tell you more, if you get it wrong, it's an airbrake!

[HAndy]

thanks for the advise , will start with the front splitter and rake the suspension set up , then perhaps try the string/wool and tape at my local rolling road as they have a large fan there that would help simulate flow or a quick drive up the road perhaps with a friend side by side to see the effects :)

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

We used marine ply on one our GT1 cars back in 2001 to make a splitter, until we made one in carbon toward the end if that season, cheaper to mock up with that, or keep it.
If you extend the splitter under the engine compartment to where the subframe finishes, you should get some gain, especially with a spot of rake....
The underside of a 5 is too busy to use a diffuser at the rear, so you will have to use a wing on the roofline to get a force to the rear, but mount it pretty well, get rid of flex and poss. uplift......

[HAndy]

something like this ;)



http://88.198.21.167/atpic/628/35806/0/1848882/1024.jpg
http://88.198.21.167/atpic/628/35806/0/1848883/1024.jpg

how cool is that car:cool: i want one for christmas:sos::sos:

[Woznaldo]

Lets start getting serious

http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=1240&pictureid=14118

http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=1240&pictureid=14117

[modfather]

Lets start getting serious

http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=1240&pictureid=14118

http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=1240&pictureid=14117

:laugh::laugh: thats almost as silly as this 1

[HAndy]

note the depth of the front splitter though :)

[Woznaldo]

:laugh::laugh: thats almost as silly as this 1

That car set lap records for FWD time attack cars all over the US. Can't be that silly. FWD will need more downforce at the front to be able to put the power down, especially when you got 1200bhp!

[modfather]

That car set lap records for FWD time attack cars all over the US. Can't be that silly. FWD will need more downforce at the front to be able to put the power down, especially when you got 1200bhp!


its the spoiler that looks silly sat where it is :laugh:

[Woznaldo]

A few more wacky creations in my album:

http://www.rtoc.org/boards/album.php?albumid=1240

[modfather]

A few more wacky creations in my album:

http://www.rtoc.org/boards/album.php?albumid=1240


:laugh: wacky aint the word for it i would say crazy creations :laugh:

[Sam Fish]

I wold have a go with a splitter. Make the first one out of thin ply, And once painted black, it will look smart. My Dad fitted a splitter to very rapid Alfa, and it was attached to the subframe and all accross the front edge - well bolted. It created to much pressure from above that it split the ply and ripped it half off - that was with a shallow 'chin' too!

Fitted one to this clio (have a scroll down):
http://clio-motorsport.blogspot.com/

Apparently it make a difference above 50/60mph....

I would say if you want to give it a massive chin, its going to have to be damn strong, and reinforce the bumper mounts :agree:

The Mini challenge cars have an adjustable rear spoiler and drivers suggested that it made a small difference in making the rear stable in fast corners, but they almost all run with a flat wing as it was producing more drag than useful downforce. That seems the consensus.
A rear diffuser is meant to create downforce without the added drag, but is alot harder to achieve, needing a totally flat floor to really make a difference.

Correct me if Im wrong
:)

[Sparkie]

the front end of my turbo2 used to get a bit bouncy on certain surfaces, so i can only assume a front spoiler would have helped in rwd/rear engine applications.
dont forget the turbo 2 maxi's used to use the rear spoiler as an air scoop for the airbox in the back of the car....

[clee]

GTA gets very light on the front when low on fuel at high speeds ,tank being up front .I'm sure it would help to put a plank on .

[HAndy]

picked up a sheet of 9mm wbp ply from work today,to build a splitter with. 150mm extending from the front of bumper and extend 50mm past each side of the bumper(width ways ) and running past the wishbones underneath to bring flush with existing subframe plate,fixed to a steel frame work attaching it to the subframe and front bumper, covering it in resin and woven grp cloth/material, i can then move the splitter forwards/backwards to find best performance feel, will uprate front springs on the coil overs also to allow for extra downforce and add tie rods to the middle area,to help support and stop flex,


is this a sound plan or am i missing something:scratch:

bumper in picture below
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/os8472/HA%20RWD%20Project/30102010611.jpg

[Sam Fish]

Sounds mega strong.