View Full Version : engine rebuild/freshen up Pics etc
ok.. my other engines a little old in the tooth however when i purchased my car i was given a spare engine, problem being it had been kept outside, good thing being it apparntly has done very few miles and was in a car that was crashed hence he had it..
Anyway heres the pics
I think i screwed up as when removing the fly wheel the bottom end moved with the head off so therefore the liner seals probably shifted.. ah well
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y98/djinuk/010420071787.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y98/djinuk/010420071786.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y98/djinuk/010420071785.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y98/djinuk/010420071784.jpg
just a thought.. would a bucket of vinegar be ideal for cleaning up valves etc?
rs250nut
11-12-2010, 23:07
just a thought.. would a bucket of vinegar be ideal for cleaning up valves etc?
Wire brush attachment on a bench grinder,drill or an angle grinder is good for getting the carbon off valves. Vinegar will remove surface corrosion on rusty bolts etc.
sweet, wirebrush on drill it will be then, engine looks worse than i had hoped :( so much carbon and ****
Adam 005
11-12-2010, 23:25
those liners look done.bin them along with the rings in my mind.Head will clean up.Whats the cam and crank like:)
what exactly goes wrong with liners i presumed liners lasted pretty much until they cracked or similar.
honestly mate that engine's dead as it is. if you're lucky the block might live again with a propper clean and maybe the pistons and crank as adam says ?
I wouldn't worry about moving the liners! the lot will need to come to bits for a full clean and rebuild. The inside of an engine needs to be the cleanest bit of the car! The smallest speck of corrosion or crap floating about will score your bearings, cam, journals and kill your turbo in no time.
The liners look dead from corrosion as adam says.
aight scoff thats fair dues, im tempted to lift the engine out thats currently in the car and give that a rebuild instead , as it looks like this ones possibly been sitting around to long now.
just to add , i was unable to turn the engine over to tdc as the pistons got stuck where it met the corrosion on the liner, will this cause problems when trying to undo the rods to remove the piston/liner
Nah probably not, you'll remove the piston and liner as one lump then pull the piston out the bottom of the liner instead.
well stripped the bottom end down tonight, and kept the rods and caps in order etc... block is full of orange crap, a friend who work for lh group services offered to take it to work to clean out for me which is handy.
is there anything i should be paying particular attention to as when removing the pistons and crank there seemed to be lots of bearings kicking about and by the end thwere was just a pile.
I gave the crank glance over and there were minor marks but no grooves etc..
well stripped the bottom end down tonight, and kept the rods and caps in order etc...
Did you stamp the caps so you know which way round they go should you re-use them?
oh bugger nope, i have them in order as in 1234, but not which way round.. :cry:
oh bugger nope, i have them in order as in 1234, but not which way round.. :cry:
Ooops, some times you can tell by looking at the matching pairs and see if there any tool marks on them from when you split them... If not toss the lot in the bin :eek:
i fear it will be the bin then, they all came off pretty easilly so wont be any marks
modfather
12-12-2010, 21:09
i though that with the caps that the bearings will only go on 1 way (as there is a lip on 1 end of bearing) and that then they have to be matching the same way as the bearing on the rod. so the cap should go back on 1 way round for it to be the right anyway. even know the cap will fit on the wrong way round
i think thats what i looked at and decided it wasnt worth marking them up, could be wrong though ill check in a min..
just to show my understanding with a few pics.. i noticed the rods have these notices in them, and the bearings also to locate, i then presume that these go opposite one another so therefore this would tell you which way the caps go on..
forgive me if my understanding is wrong, this is my first time with a bottom end in bits.
few pics to show
the notches
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y98/djinuk/030420071790.jpg
beaing sat on notch
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y98/djinuk/030420071791.jpg
how i believe the rod goes back together
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y98/djinuk/030420071794.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y98/djinuk/030420071793.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y98/djinuk/030420071792.jpg
anybody able to offer any insight ?
Gttnutter
13-12-2010, 17:57
I'm sure the notches stay on the same side on the bearings along with the caps
you've got them opposite by the looks of the pictures
I think thats correct anyway?
also it was said on here that the notches face towards the back of the block however they may have been the other way round if changed before
If you didnt note that the you'll be pi$$ing in the wind with regards to the journels refitting them
nope i never made note, however im having the crank checked/reground with fresh bearings anyway so id imagine it should make any diffrence if they were on the wrong way before.
edit - also your correct i put them so they were opposites as i presumed that notch was designed to channel oil into the bearing, therefore i thought if they were on the same side it would starve one side of oil.
Cheers the post though rich all becoming more clear.
Adam 005
13-12-2010, 18:32
Have you kept the big end caps in order of which rod they came off.
yep the caps are in order, just not which way round..
so no1 rod still has no1 cap,
and 2 has 2 etc.. however not which way the actual cap sits, as in notch to back of engine etc.
the pistons will have arrows on them....these face the flywheel...
an that will tell you which way the caps should go if you look a the marks very closely you should see which goes with what.
and if you having the crank re-ground then it does not matter about the old bearings etc.
they will supply oversize with the crank.
:)
Adam 005
13-12-2010, 19:58
the notches face the back of the block.:)
Rob@Backyardracing
13-12-2010, 20:12
As said, notch to notch with the bearings, as long as the cap stays with the correct rod your fine...
thanks for the help guys, now all is fine , good job i didnt chuck these in with the scrap on the trip to the scrap man earlier today.
Going to take the bare block to a bead blaster at some point in the week, get it cleaned up and see how it comes out.
I wouldnt bead blast the block personally you could get a lot of swarf in it:crap: Chemical wash or something would be better imo:)
TrixNFlix
13-12-2010, 20:35
As brigsy says, fook bead blasting your block. It could end in tears :cry:.
Use something like marine clean, or some chemical degreaser.
Tape up the top and bottom of the block, give the outside a good blast so most of the big bits of crap are off then do the same inside, oil and water ways.
Some may frown at this , so you could do a proper job, and take all water and oil plugs out and then give it a good blast.
I just degreased everything, and pressure washed all water and oil ways, left to dry in the sun, or in your case by a radiator, then used canisters of compressed air to blast all oil galleries free of water.
aight man, the inside of the block is orange that was the only thing..
I have a mate who works at lh group services, they build train engines etc, il ask him to drop it in his parts washer.
modfather
13-12-2010, 20:48
I'm sure the notches stay on the same side on the bearings along with the caps
you've got them opposite by the looks of the pictures
:agree: the notches defo on the same side have a look at the piccy :)
awesome find there modfarther,
scott 5gtt
13-12-2010, 22:34
Dont bead blast the block mate i had mine done and i rhought it was free of swarf etc then 20 miles later no oil pressure due to immense scoaring of crank . Shells . Cam and block was ruined ask brigsy we aint seen anythin as bad lol. Second time round i used a parafin gun with 5 litres of petrol . Sweet.
how do i ensure the cam i remove is standard ???
Any particular markings on a standard cam ?, reason i ask is it also appears to have black valve springs, and from what i remmber the standards are red ??
UnstableCable
15-12-2010, 08:25
how do i ensure the cam i remove is standard ???
Any particular markings on a standard cam ?, reason i ask is it also appears to have black valve springs, and from what i remmber the standards are red ??
The ones i have seen that are not std. usually have a stamp on the end on the face that goes into the engine first and that faces towards the gearbox. To me just looks like a random jumble of letters but if you have a stamp then they can be used to help identify the cam.
I seem to remmber it has the initials 'c u'
UnstableCable
15-12-2010, 16:39
Standard cams have c u on them, either side of the hole on the end.
And a nice confusing "270" marked halfway along between the lobes :D
cool its a standard cam, also the springs are slightly red, just had to look closer..
Anyway going to order a rook of parts over xmas.
pistons & liners
oil pump
timing chain and tensioner
gaskets,
gearbox bush
timing chain & sump cork gaskets (to use with sealant)
ht leads
water pump
themmostat
water bump bolts
oil filter
sump seal
manifold studs and nuts
and a fresh clutch
probably a few more bits but thats so far, also having have most of a bottom end gasket set and head gasket set.
I spoke to cgb on the phone about there bottom ends, bob was explaining to me there engine builder actually scrapped a good number of the blocks as once cleaned up the area where the liner seal seats was pitted and therefore would not seal again, with this in mine i was very worried so gave this area a good clean up with a wire attachment, and they came up looking good, anybody heard of this problem, im in two minds whether to rebuild this block i have, one to save a few£££ and 2 so that i have the experiance of having build my own engine.
Also i noticed a few light gouges on the top of the block, i presume this wont be a problem as the hg will sort this.
2 mins with the drill and attachment gave me this, the orange sort of in the corner is just dust and wiped off after, i presume this is fine to reseat the liners onto.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y98/djinuk/IMG_0147.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y98/djinuk/IMG_0146.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y98/djinuk/IMG_0145.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y98/djinuk/IMG_0144.jpg
My plan is to wire brush the whole engine in this way to remove as much corrosion as possible, then i will send it to be chemically cleaned and all being well it will come back sweet as a nut ready for a lick of paint and fresh engine parts.
I've seen corrosion on the liner seal seat on a 21 turbo alloy engine block before.
Someone suggested chemical metal on the area, I didn't fancy it causing greif later on and instead scrapped the block.
The right mix of coolant helps, it tends to be where an engine has been run with water and no antifreeze in the coolant that this happens.
From your pictures all looks good though.
TrixNFlix
22-01-2011, 19:52
Yeah they look good from here. Make sure you put a smidge of silicone sealant around the liner rubber rings when you put the liners back in. How deep are the scratches on the top of the block Damian?
damian check this stuff out-
http://www.frost.co.uk/item_Detail.asp?productID=8393&frostProductName=Glyptal%20(946ml,%20US%20Quart)
:)
Yeah they look good from here. Make sure you put a smidge of silicone sealant around the liner rubber rings when you put the liners back in. How deep are the scratches on the top of the block Damian?
Good call the silicone, i did this on mine.:agree:
there quite light scratches to be honest, you can just about see them in pic 3,. That product looks good for the engine, bloody dear though for a simple product. Cheers for looking, ill continue to get the block cleaned up.
when you put the liner seals on, always put a smear of silicone over them. That way any corrosion in the block should be filled.... don't use rhodorseal/thixo/mastixo though, as you will never get the liners out again, without smashing them.
btw - if you put the valves actually IN the drill, you can clean them up alot quicker. - use sandpaper to scrape all the carbon off whilst running the drill/valve.
cheers for the advice there sparkie, as you know as take it all on board as its all i really have to go on :)..
biggest problem at the moment is im struggling to find anybody in the local area who can chemically clean the block, i may end up just doing it myself with some chemical, sooner not as i imagine it will stink!
mr muscle oven cleaner.
then wheel acid....
mr muscle hey, i may attack poundland and buy some !!.. somthing like wonderwheels i guess..
Cheers for the advice, i presume after using either of the above a hose down would definatly be beneficial with a thorough drying out and some compressed air.
is the only core plug on this engien the one at the end of the cam ?, just wondering if its worth knocking out to aid in cleaning and grabbing another one from renault.
Adam 005
27-01-2011, 19:55
is the only core plug on this engien the one at the end of the cam ?, just wondering if its worth knocking out to aid in cleaning and grabbing another one from renault.
no
no its not the only plug ?, no its not worth knocking out to replace? .. any kind of explanation would be greatly appreciated.
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