Millie's Clio 172 Engine Light on & hessitating?

[Big Steve - Raider]

Hi guys,

Thought i'd save myself the waste of time by posting this on Cliosport for no replied?! :rolleyes:

Millie's Clio 172 is apparently playing up today & the engine light is coming on intermittedly?

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn259/BigSteveT/IMG00059-20101130-1219.jpg

She has text me and told me:

"It feels like its is going to conk out! It has to have high revs and acceleration but is still very slow/juddery"

Any ideas guys? I'm thinking an engine sensor or something??

Looks like I may be outside looking at her car in the cold tonight! :crap:

[BigWilly425]

lambda sensor? does it have a separate emissions warning light?

[Andrew Cooke]

you're going to have to plug into the OBD port for a bit more info.

[Big Steve - Raider]

Right guys, she's just got home & the bloody thing sounds like it's got a Boxer Engine like an Impreza?? :confused::scratch:

It's kind of popping and not revving or idling as smooth as it usually would.

Kind of sounds like it running on three cylinders or something but it doesn't have individual coil packs so i'm not thinking it's having a coil pack breakdown but i could be wrong??

Any help/pointers would be appreciated!! :D

[Robbo]

i would plump for ignition leads
but dont quote me on that as i know nothing

[Big Steve - Raider]

i would plump for ignition leads
but dont quote me on that as i know nothing

Thanks Robbo, i'll go & have a butchers! :niceone:

[Alastair]

Thanks Robbo, i'll go & have a butchers! :niceone:


I'd plumb for an ignition / transducer issue in this weather too, good luck getting to the bottom of it!

[BriC]

you're going to have to plug into the OBD port for a bit more info.

:agree: Get the fault codes read

[Big Steve - Raider]

Just had a prod around and didn't see anything obviously wrong.

Nipped out for a drive round the block and when you're driving the thing's running rough as a badgers arse & the engine light is flashing??

Looked on CS :ashamed: and it's believed to be coil, plugs, leads etc?

[JRP]

Do they have coils like the v6 clios or what have you, i had one go on the v6 and it didnt drive well what so ever... and same warning light if i remember...

[JRP]

Just incase they do have coils

Diagnosing A Failed Coil



Diagnosis of a failed coil, or at least confirming one has failed, should usually be fairly obvious. The engine note will sound much different from normal, idle will be lumpy and the smootheness of the V6 will be lost. Some have likened the sound to that of a tractor. The engine will also be down on power noticeably.

Beware that due to the coil preventing firing of the spark plug, unburnt fuel can make it's way into the catalytic converter potentially causing damage. The details of how soon damage will be caused is sketchy but you should try and drive the car as little as possible or get the car recovered. Even better carry spare coils and carry out a roadside replacement or get the breakdown fella to fit your replacement coil.

An idea may be to use the diagnosis method below to find the failed coil and therefore the cylinder and remove the fuel injector connector. This has not been tried or tested though and so would be at your own risk.

[Brigsy]

One coil pack iirc jeep, might be dead leads or plug if it's off on a cylinder

[Big Steve - Raider]

Yep, One coil pack.

Whats the best way of diagnosing? Change which first??

Plugs ---> Leads ---> Coil???

[Brigsy]

Pull a lead off coil pack one at a time to find out which cyl is off, i think its inlet manifold top off to change leads & plugs

[Big Steve - Raider]

Beware that due to the coil preventing firing of the spark plug, unburnt fuel can make it's way into the catalytic converter potentially causing damage.

Foooook! Millie's got to use the car tomorrow to get to an exam in Cambridge??

Looks like i'll have to get the Raider out of the garage & tax it?! :cry:

[Big Steve - Raider]

Pull a lead off coil pack one at a time to find out which cyl is off, i think its inlet manifold top off to change leads & plugs

Would that not give the same results as it is at the moment?? :confused:

Off to try it now!!

Will report back!! :D

[Tony Walker]

plugs,leads or coil. Renault misfiring??? surely not.:eek:lol

[Big Steve - Raider]

Would that not give the same results as it is at the moment?? :confused:

Off to try it now!!

Will report back!! :D

Well that was interesting?? :confused:

When I removed leads 1 - 3 there was no discernable difference but it did struggle to start on a couple of them

However when I removed lead no4, i found that a small spark was leaping out of the coil pack & arcing onto the power cable feeding the coil pack itself?! :scratch:

I wedged a "Take a Break" magazine (well it is a womans car! :laugh:) in between the two to insulate the spark & then re-started the car to find that the spark was then jumping out of the coil pack and arcing on the Aluminium housing it was sitting in?! :scared:

WTF??

So possibly that might tell me that the coil pack could be borked??

[J8TRO]

Steve,

Are you not in the AA or RAC, call them out in this weather, that's what they are for. My wife had a coil pack go on her TT and they keep them as a stock item on their vans. I'm sure they would sort this out plus plug it in the diag for the codes.

If your not a member i'll PM you my details and you can just pretend to be me :)

[TrixNFlix]

yeah had this happen to my dads mondeo, yet he wouldnt buy a new coilpack for nearly 6 months.:rolleyes: Said he liked the throaty sound :sad2::laugh:Feckin tight ass

[Tony Walker]

AA charge the earth tho. euro list them to customers(non trade) at £63 for valeo or cheapo at £34. just as an idea :D Might be slightly different i didnt kno what year yours was.

[Tony Walker]

If its missing via an ignition fault(which it sounds like it is) then running it will dump fuel in your cat and melt it, id recommend not running it too much. deffinetly not driving it.

[J8TRO]

IIRC the coil pack on the Audi was £70 to £80 odd quid, yes a little more than i could have got it for from my local motor factors, but it was 8pm at night, dark out side and Stacey needed to be at work the next day.

My point was made cause the big man said Millie needed to be somewhere tomorrow.

It's been noted the 172 doesn't use individual coil packs so if its something simple they could fix it there and then, if it needs a part, chances are they might have it. Good luck either way buddy.

[Tony Walker]

I apologise if i sounded negative towards you pointing out the AA i just dont like seeing people spend more than they need, but you are correct its the best option if its needed for tommorrow morning, i didnt read that part :(

[J8TRO]

No worries, I get the AA free through my bank, its a good service to have when you need it most.

I would much rather have a look and get my spanners out first though:D

[car.crash]

you need to get it on OBD to see what error codes appear as stated before, it could be a number of things.

[mike r5 gtt]

well if ur anywhere near surrey i can clip it for u :D to make sure it is the coil pack, coz it could b an injector
and we prob have a coil pack in stock if u need it :agree::agree:

[Ashy]

Steve, the coil pack is earthed to the inlet plenum through little metal contacts which are under each of the bolts that secure it to the plenum. It might be a good idea to remove the coil pack, 4 torx screws one in each corner, turn it upside down and clean the contacts underneath, also wire brush the plenum where it sits. Maybe its started to corrode and isn't getting a good enough earth?

Worth a shot before you start changing coil packs.

[J8TRO]

What was the outcome Steve, did the raider get dragged out in all this salt? :eek:

[The new Bill J]

What was the outcome Steve, did the raider get dragged out in all this salt? :eek:

Salt - What's that? :scratch:

[J8TRO]

Salt - What's that? :scratch:

An ingredient in grit which they throw all over the roads in a failed attempt to stop muppets getting stuck. Which as a bi-product kindly eats away at our cars that little bit quicker.

Ever noticed the white coating all around the bottom of your car in this weather or am i boarder line telling you to suck eggs? :)

Would never take mine out in this weather, never mind Steve's Raider.

[The new Bill J]

:laugh: :agree:

There's no salt, or grit on the roads round here, just slush. Even the main roads haven't been touched :cry:

[J8TRO]

I knew you were being funny you fecker..........why didn't that one slap me in the face! :wasntme:

[The new Bill J]

I knew you were being funny you fecker..........

Same here, hence the thumbs up :p

[Big Steve - Raider]

What was the outcome Steve, did the raider get dragged out in all this salt? :eek:

BI*CHIN MOTHERF*CKIN JANKY ROTTEN RENAULT'S :mad: :upyours2::rant::badone:

Well guys, today has been a lesson in why new technology isn't always an improvement on the old!! Give me a frikkin Dizzy Cap & Rotor arm anyday of the week!!

Took the car to a local autoelectrician who diagnosed the car with his Snap-On reader & he suggested it was injector number 4 but the coil pack maybe gone also?? £47

So I get in touch with my main Renault man & he's surprised to hear an Injector has gone as he's never supplied one to ANYONE else in history & can't get hold of one for a few days.

Ring round various places to see if they've got one & no luck.

Checked Plugs & Leads & everything there seems fine so bought a new coil pack from Euro Car Parts £37

Fitted that & STILL NO BETTER! :cry::brickwall:

So now thinking I should get hold of some injectors & try them but at £50+ a pop i don't want to spunk too much more on it without knowing so got hold of a breaker who's got a set for £25

All the while Millie's now car-less & the poor old Raider is clinging on to the inside of the garage for all she's worth! :wasntme:

[Mart]

Pull the sparkplug & see what's what - Black/soot would indicate a weak spark (ignition), white would indicate a lean burn (fuelling).

[Big Steve - Raider]

Pull the sparkplug & see what's what - Black/soot would indicate a weak spark (ignition), white would indicate a lean burn (fuelling).

Did that matey & didn't see much difference with them all?

Didn't have my handy Haynes Manual guide but they didn't look particularly bad.

[James George]

May not be of relavance, but mine was running on three then missing intermitantly. It was HT had rubbed through against the upper inlet. In dark you could see it sparking. At the time scoured cliosport for problems and not many mentioned HT leads, their favorit was water temp sensor. If its the sensor the temp gauge goes haywire when it missfires. Quite a few on there with injector trouble also.

[James George]

Just pull fuel rail and injectors out to see if they work before you go shelling out on them. They come out easy enough once you got the fuel rail gaurd off. You could also disconnect the wire to them one at a time to see which one is giving you greif.

[Adey aka Ewok]

My old cup had a set of injectors done under warrantee cus it kept going into limp mode

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

What year Clio is it? (vehicle type is good enough for me CB22 or something like that)....I haven't changed many injectors on 172

[Big Steve - Raider]

What year Clio is it? (vehicle type is good enough for me CB22 or something like that)....I haven't changed many injectors on 172

It's a CB1C Clio Sport 2.0l on a 2001 Y. ;)

[Big Steve - Raider]

Just pull fuel rail and injectors out to see if they work before you go shelling out on them. They come out easy enough once you got the fuel rail gaurd off. You could also disconnect the wire to them one at a time to see which one is giving you greif.

How can you check they're working?

[Ashy]

I've got a few spares I somewhere in the garage, could post one down if required?

Let me know and I'll have a look.

[James George]

How can you check they're working?

un plug the wire to them one by one, find the one that makes no difference ie the cylinder thats not firing. you could swap the injectors about to see if the prob moves.
or take all of them out on the fuel rail and see if they fire.

still go with having a good check of the HT leads.

[Big Steve - Raider]

still go with having a good check of the HT leads.

The bloke at the Diagnostics place did that & when he disconnected no4 it didn't make a difference & so maybe the injectors are the problems??

Any ideas where I can get a set of plug leads tomorrow?? All the Renault dealers I phoned don't have any?

[James George]

The bloke at the Diagnostics place did that & when he disconnected no4 it didn't make a difference & so maybe the injectors are the problems??


if you swap the injector from no.4 to say three and the problem moves then you know what it is.

not sure if there is enough length in the HT leads to swap them about as that would be a far easier thing to try as well to see if one of them is knackered. think they aren't cheap either so worth knowing they are knackered first.

[Mart]

Did that matey & didn't see much difference with them all?

Didn't have my handy Haynes Manual guide but they didn't look particularly bad.

Define 'particularly bad'.

The plug(s) colour will always show up a problem, but if you reckon they look normal (grey/brown colour) maybe the problem lies elsewhere?

You're not confusing number 1 cylinder with number 4 are you? :D

[Big Steve - Raider]

Define 'particularly bad'.

The plug(s) colour will always show up a problem, but if you reckon they look normal (grey/brown colour) maybe the problem lies elsewhere?

You're not confusing number 1 cylinder with number 4 are you? :D

When I say Particularly Bad, I mean not one of them looked any different to the other 3. Not one was particularly sooty or black

It's the cylinder that's furthest away from the clutch so it's either 1 or 4 :D

[Mart]

Or white/light grey?

[Duncan Grier]

Great weather for playing with the car steve :( if I knew you could have taken my code reader or posted it to you.

Does sound coil / ignition / earth related but knowing the error code could help

Bit of fault by substitution required there I fear :D

DG

[Big Steve - Raider]

:yeah::yeah:I'VE FIXED IT!!!! :cool2::cool2:

Got hold of a second set of injectors (as instructed to do so by the guy who diagnosed it. :jerkoff: = me) and replaced the one on the very left of the engine & she's purring like a little kitten again!!

The engine light is still on so I would imagine I need to hold of a code reader to reset that... DUNCAN?!? ;)

If it doesn't involve applying another coat of polish I'm fooked! :laugh::wasntme:

Thanks to all you guys who helped me and suggested other things to try :worship::worship: