View Full Version : Why run without a brake servo?
Chris Hebden
23-11-2010, 13:14
Whats the benefits of running a car without a brake servo during?
Cheers Chris
phase i 16 v turbo
23-11-2010, 14:15
Whats the benefits of running a car without a brake servo during?
Cheers Chris
Depends what you are doing, you can use a pedal box with a bios, did this in my Anglia for a while.
markey b
23-11-2010, 16:16
good for building up leg muscles!
wouldn't want to on a car with a single master cyl running all 4, pedal box as stated above wont need a servo
to try it out, turn off ya engine and try and brake whilst in neutral, not the easiest thing to do
Tony Walker
23-11-2010, 19:57
On the normal braking system it would be a massive step in the wrong direction. you'l struggle to apply pressure to the discs.
SCHWARTZ
23-11-2010, 20:01
drive around with the brake servo pipe off then youll see.:D
drive around with the brake servo pipe off then youll see.:D
:eek:
Purple_rob
23-11-2010, 20:46
Ever driven an old car without a servo? A mini for example. It's a double foot job.
Ever driven an old car without a servo? A mini for example. It's a double foot job.
Yes I have thank you, no problem braking as well :) some renault 19s dont have a brake servo ;)
tiff_lee
23-11-2010, 21:49
Ever driven an old car without a servo? A mini for example. It's a double foot job.
Mine was pretty good once I pumped the pedal a few times first...
TNT ANDY
23-11-2010, 21:57
Mine was pretty good once I pumped the pedal a few times first...
Which begs the question - why not have one?
Another member on here has done a monster build and has not included a servo for one reason or another. He has included a bias valve to trim from front to rear as well, I cannot think why he would opt for no servo.
tiff_lee
23-11-2010, 22:30
Which begs the question - why not have one?
Another member on here has done a monster build and has not included a servo for one reason or another. He has included a bias valve to trim from front to rear as well, I cannot think why he would opt for no servo.
Well I was taking the p*** a little as I had to pump the brakes due to them being in a poor state (air in system) plus it was a non servo model 83 plate or some such but indeed it would beg the question why not have one and take what could be seen as a step backwards.
One example I could think of using a pedal box was on an Escort RS Turbo whereby the servo was mounted on the left hand side of the engine requiring a bar to transfer the action from the brake pedal to the servo which wasn't the best design due to flex etc. The servo itself couldnt be moved inline with the brake pedal removing the need for the transfer bar as the servo would foul the inlet however it was possible to fit a pedal box instead.
I was towed once in my R5 with the engine off (as it had blown :laugh:) and therefore had no servo assistance - it's a terrible idea to run without a servo on an R5 - I nearly hit the truck towing me several times!
Sure, some cars don't have servos out the factory but they're generally designed NOT to have one to start with..... :)
Chris Hebden
24-11-2010, 13:15
Which begs the question - why not have one?
Another member on here has done a monster build and has not included a servo for one reason or another. He has included a bias valve to trim from front to rear as well, I cannot think why he would opt for no servo.
This was kind of my point, i couldnt understand the reasoning behind anyone removing a servo. I know what a servo does to the brake pedal and i know how hard it is to break without a servo, so couldnt work out why in a competitive car a servo would be removed.
phase i 16 v turbo
24-11-2010, 13:22
This was kind of my point, i couldnt understand the reasoning behind anyone removing a servo. I know what a servo does to the brake pedal and i know how hard it is to break without a servo, so couldnt work out why in a competitive car a servo would be removed.
They are removed and replaced with a pedal box & bios which gives you more control over how the car brakes and can be adjusted throughout the race.
Chris Hebden
24-11-2010, 13:26
They are removed and replaced with a pedal box & bios which gives you more control over how the car brakes and can be adjusted throughout the race.
How did you find this over the standard vehicle set up?
phase i 16 v turbo
24-11-2010, 13:28
How did you find this over the standard vehicle set up?
Fun! Easy to do rolling burns outs. Needs to be setup correctly though.
Chris Hebden
24-11-2010, 13:57
What about the brake performance?
i dont run servo brakes on mine, as my engine sits behind me:laugh:
also room in front engine bay was cramped once the fuel tank was in place, as regards to brake feel , they are responsive ,with very little pedal travel,once four pots are in place should be superb:) you feel more if that makes sense, but to get full lock up you do have to apply pressure!!:laugh:
SCHWARTZ
24-11-2010, 18:09
i dont run servo brakes on mine, as my engine sits behind me:laugh:
also room in front engine bay was cramped once the fuel tank was in place, as regards to brake feel , they are responsive ,with very little pedal travel,once four pots are in place should be superb:) you feel more if that makes sense, but to get full lock up you do have to apply pressure!!:laugh:
are you using a pedal box then? Did you try/look into a remote servo at all?
TNT ANDY
24-11-2010, 19:15
are you using a pedal box then? Did you try/look into a remote servo at all?
My thoughts exactly.
TNT ANDY
24-11-2010, 19:19
I have driven 1 non assisted car in my time, and the brakes where terrible, I can only assume that non assisted brakes nowadays are not that bad then?
However
Are they as good as assisted?
By that I mean:
Are they as responsive?
Are they as sharp?
Are they as efficient?
From my own experience the answer to all of the above is no, what are other peoples views?
Adam 005
24-11-2010, 19:48
am i right in thinking lotus elise has no servo.F1 cars have on servo :)
SCHWARTZ
24-11-2010, 19:52
but F1 card would use a pedal box so there fore not need a servo wouldnt they?:scratch:
Tony Walker
24-11-2010, 21:50
Basically the 5's braking system is designed for use with a servo, so the size of the piston pushing the other pistons has been calculated by some very clever people to do its job WITH a servo, so to run a 5 without is nuts, and dangerous. Unless you have legs like an ape. Even then there is no benefit. Please if you do decide to do it, make sure you test it first and have no-one or thing in front of you lol. They will stop you, but you'll crap your pants.
i run a tandem master cylinder 50/50 split using the same brake line layout as the clio maxi
is there any real performance difference between a pedal box and a single tandem master cylinder and bias valve, apart from the extra room needed to fit , and the price, if its set up all right shouldnt be a problem,
there is a top bloke called Mell who lives round the corner from me, and he has a reliant kitten running 4wd ford running gear and standard brakes ,with a proven 270 bhp atmo duratec engine and at the last raf marham track day ,was hitting 170 mph on the runway straight,before braking into the bends, he has no issues running without a servo and his reliant weighs in at around the 850-900kg mark so can't really see any problems with a non servo set up if fitted correctly. (think its been featured in retro cars and ppc just for reference if anybodys interested :)
like i said earlier in the thread , with my engine sat behind me , running a 2.5-3m pipe to a servo unit was a no , and with limited space in the engine bay that was also a no,
maybe Andrew Warren or Scoff might have fitted it in in there cars i dont know, if they have please let me know how well it works and how they plumbed it in;)
if i had kept the engine in the front i would have kept the servo unit as mentioned above:)
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