Backyard Racing Boosted Civic [Archive] - Page 3

Andrew Cooke

29-07-2011, 08:01

Yeah, it's staggering how much fuel 2 of those can move. Mine will empty my 2L swirl pot in not many seconds. Even regulated at 3 bar they will suck the pot dry with the lift pump (the usual uprated GTT type) running flat out to fill it. I have to run the rail return to the swirl pot to keep the level up. A leak, anywhere in the bay would be game over. :(

It's normal to return the fuel to the collector (the downside being heating the fuel), but, the lift pump should have more flow than the injectors, after all it has to be able to catch up after sucking air. But then I guess you're not on full throttle for long :D. My system is only spec'd at 2L/min @7 bar so it's easy for me. You should see the lift pumps we make at work, I even have a mini dyno on my desk for motor power/efficiency curves :)

rs250nut

30-07-2011, 00:04

Its just the way the hose fits to the adaptors, pain to fit and im just amazed to what pressure they state they will take, just seems like the hose could pull out. Ok ive put them in a vise and tried to pull them out which i cant do, but i cant load them up to 100psi + or so which i guess we will be at.. Ill find out soon.. All my fittings are fast flow design joins, not swivel style...

How do you mean fast flow? Did you buy them from torques?

Rob@Backyardracing

30-07-2011, 20:18

It's normal to return the fuel to the collector (the downside being heating the fuel), but, the lift pump should have more flow than the injectors, after all it has to be able to catch up after sucking air. But then I guess you're not on full throttle for long :D. My system is only spec'd at 2L/min @7 bar so it's easy for me. You should see the lift pumps we make at work, I even have a mini dyno on my desk for motor power/efficiency curves :)

exactly why we chose to make a new tank and gravity feed the pump direct, seemed complicated and too much to go wrong with a lift pump and surge tank setup, we was worried about the lift pump keeping up, or 1 of 3 pumps failing.

simplest way is usually the best way :)

Rob@Backyardracing

30-07-2011, 20:26

How do you mean fast flow? Did you buy them from torques?

Yes from Torques, fast flow doesnt mean it will flow more, there the same bores just different fitment, take a look on ebay at there shop..

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l463/BackyardRacing_2008/Civic%20project/002-12.jpg

tank nearly done..

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l463/BackyardRacing_2008/Civic%20project/005-3.jpg

Rob@Backyardracing

02-08-2011, 22:05

Yay the other gate is here.. getting closer to a run...

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l463/BackyardRacing_2008/Civic%20project/003-5.jpg

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l463/BackyardRacing_2008/Civic%20project/002-13.jpg

Os8472

03-08-2011, 06:19

Not to be a downer or anything but your gunna make bugger all power with such a small turbo :eek:

5teve L

03-08-2011, 08:10

Looking good Rob, not far off now mate :agree:

Rob@Backyardracing

03-08-2011, 22:50

More honda spammmmmm...... :)

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l463/BackyardRacing_2008/Civic%20project/001-7.jpg

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l463/BackyardRacing_2008/Civic%20project/002-14.jpg

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l463/BackyardRacing_2008/Civic%20project/003-6.jpg

Scoff

04-08-2011, 10:20

Looks like you had a nose bleed while you were fitting the injectors :D

Rob@Backyardracing

09-08-2011, 00:14

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqFgSHTWMB0

rs250nut

10-08-2011, 00:35

Nice mate:agree::agree: will you be ready for the outlaw event? Sure looks like it now!!!!!

Brigsy

10-08-2011, 12:29

Awesome, cant wait to see it in action :agree:

Rob@Backyardracing

12-08-2011, 00:12

Nearly there now.. a little bit of weighting tonight before i dash of to Oulton Park for the weekend with work.. hoping to be on dyno early next week..
This is the car on its own...
http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l463/BackyardRacing_2008/004-2.jpg
With me in it before set up..
http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l463/BackyardRacing_2008/002-1.jpg
And the nearly finished result, need more balist yet and tweeks..
http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l463/BackyardRacing_2008/005-1.jpg

GTphil

12-08-2011, 13:22

:DYou fat *******!

Looking good! Should hopefully be along to watch this event, if the weather holds out

Rob@Backyardracing

16-08-2011, 22:00

All ready for the weekend, Car made 531hp @ 19-20psi boost.. leaving the tune there for now, Power is still climbing at 9k rpm but we are only going to rev to 9k at mo and let the motor run in a little... Im not after breaking records at the weekend or chassing Scoff just yet ;).. I just want to beat our old time but with not much effert..

Cheers for anyone thats helped or followed this thread.. :agree:

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l463/BackyardRacing_2008/Civic%20project/012-4.jpg

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l463/BackyardRacing_2008/Civic%20project/016-3.jpg

rs250nut

16-08-2011, 23:47

Nice one mate, im coming up with the missus to watch on sunday cant wait to see how this goes:agree: How much are the tickets on the gate?

Andrew Cooke

17-08-2011, 08:18

good idea to break it in gently ;)

9K... That's where Scoff will struggle, what's the stroke on your engine?

Rob@Backyardracing

17-08-2011, 09:16

good idea to break it in gently ;)

9K... That's where Scoff will struggle, what's the stroke on your engine?

that was gentle ;)

87.2mm stroke our motor, 83mm bore.

it carries torque fantastic, only dropped 20lb/ft at 9k from peak, hp was still climbing at the rev limit. standard cams too :)

the 1.00 a/r t4 turbine needs a few revs to get it going mind :D

Matt Cole

17-08-2011, 15:57

that was gentle ;)

the 1.00 a/r t4 turbine needs a few revs to get it going mind :D

You got me a little worried now Rob although i'm using the smaller unit BG S200SX twin scroll with 1.0 a/r.

I hope it's not going to be too laggy.:crap:

Rob@Backyardracing

17-08-2011, 19:09

Wups sorry, I mean its a 1.1 housing..

Rob@Backyardracing

18-08-2011, 11:42

voila'

http://www.youtube.com/user/BackyardRacing1

Matt Cole

18-08-2011, 11:50

Wups sorry, I mean its a 1.1 housing..

Ah thats better. How 'laggy' is it Rob? Would it be unbearable on the road?

GTphil

18-08-2011, 12:49

That's awesome! I love the way it just goes mental when it comes on boost!

Scoff

18-08-2011, 13:05

Ah thats better. How 'laggy' is it Rob? Would it be unbearable on the road?

I think it's going to be 6.5krpm + before it does anything worth talking about Matt !

Scoff

18-08-2011, 13:11

voila'

http://www.youtube.com/user/BackyardRacing1

Someone needs a bigger dyno :)

Glad it's getting there :)

Andrew Cooke

18-08-2011, 13:16

post the plot or I'm calling BS :D

Andrew Cooke

18-08-2011, 13:23

I think it's going to be 6.5krpm + before it does anything worth talking about Matt !

so if Matt keeps the standard rev limiter he'll be able to get rid of the intercooler ;)

Scoff

18-08-2011, 13:26

so if Matt keeps the standard rev limiter he'll be able to get rid of the intercooler ;)

..and use a 1 bar map sensor :p

Scoff

18-08-2011, 13:31

Lets hope you have more luck this weekend than this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e09XrkpTDqw&feature=relmfu

Matt Cole

18-08-2011, 15:08

..and use a 1 bar map sensor :p

Ha you guys!:upyours:

Not wishing to spam Rob's thread, but these Borg Warners seem to spool reasonably well for the size of them or so iv'e read/been told. They seem to be piopular with the Evo crowd, desperate to get away from laggy manufacturers turbos. If my thoughts are correct (very rarely) i would hope to have 1 bar by 3500 and max boost by possibly 4500? Thats with a 1.0 a/r divided backend. This i could live with and i guess all depends on getting enough revs.

Im very interested on how Rob's turbo performs and when it gets on full boost?

Scoff

18-08-2011, 15:31

Matt, which BW do you have ? I get 1 bar by about 5500rpm. Thats with a "little" 0.82ar T3 housing.

Matt Cole

18-08-2011, 15:36

Matt, which BW do you have ? I get 1 bar by about 5500rpm. Thats with a "little" 0.82ar T3 housing.

Scoff,

Here's a link and info to mine:

http://www.full-race.com/store/borgwarner-airwerks/turbos/borgwarner-s200sx-7670-turbo.html

Rob has it's big brother, i guess another animal entirely.:D

Scoff

18-08-2011, 15:46

Ah, not at all the turbo I had in mind. I take that back then, I think it should work fine. :)

Rob@Backyardracing

22-08-2011, 16:40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDXmYTWkGn0

Adey aka Ewok

30-10-2011, 19:54

Just spent nearly an hour reading this thread again, much going on with it now?

Also did I read that you ended up using the standard size vitara pistons in the over bored block? Still so tempting to do. Could pull 12s on the quarter for next to nothing:agree:

Rob@Backyardracing

02-11-2011, 08:13

well we went 10.6@137mph at the outlaw race, which was the cars 1st outing on the new engine.

weve not had it out since, it needs some upgrades, we hit 99% duty on the injectors, so need to go bigger, plus the gearbox was dropping too much rpm on the 1-2 shift, we need the integra gearbox, which is closer ratio, we have the civic vti-s 'box' which is poo :(

as for the D16 motor, we did 2, the first one was overbored and used oversized vitara pistons (75.5mm), but cracked a sleeve later in the year.

the 2nd motor we didnt bother boring (to keep the sleeves as thick as poss) and ran 75.0mm vitara pistons on that one, and never cracked a sleeve, even running really lean when we maxed the pump out and hit 100% injector duty.

i would deff stay standard bore and use standard 75.0mm pistons adey, and 12`s, pah!! it will go low 11`s all day. we ran stock inlet mani which was crap, cast turbo mani, and no where near big enough on the fuel side and went 10.9. id be totally confidant of going 10.5 if i built another d16.

Adey aka Ewok

02-11-2011, 11:09

Cheers for the info, just pricing things up, I think most of the cost is in the shipping!

Rob@Backyardracing

02-11-2011, 14:02

Cheers for the info, just pricing things up, I think most of the cost is in the shipping!

the civiclife forum classifieds would be your best bet mate, lots of parts on there, unfinished projects etc, its a very busy forum your sure to find what you want sooner or later

Scoff

02-11-2011, 14:14

Rob loves civiclife :p We need a ricer smiley....

Rob@Backyardracing

02-11-2011, 18:09

lol, not quite! i dont even like jap cars, but you cant argue with the engineering.

Scoff

02-11-2011, 18:15

Did you hear adam went 9.78 on Sunday ? 2 1/100's behind CPL.

Andrew Cooke

02-11-2011, 18:30

Did you hear adam went 9.78 on Sunday ? 2 1/100's behind CPL.

9s PAH, where are the 8s :D

Rob@Backyardracing

02-11-2011, 18:40

yeah did hear, noticed it was at the same mph as you ;)

Andrew Cooke

02-11-2011, 18:45

noticed it was at the same mph as you ;)

That'll be the "skill", there used to be a guy on here who had "skill"

Adey aka Ewok

03-11-2011, 21:40

Rob loves civiclife :p We need a ricer smiley....

Civic life, omfg! I forgot how childish some forums can be!

Scoff

03-11-2011, 21:53

yeah did hear, noticed it was at the same mph as you ;)

Maybe so, but I'm starting to think that the additional weight in those Honda's is helping a lot in their 330'. I'm confident I could not have gone any quicker in the 330' on Saturday, bar finding some way to speed up the 1-2 shift, yet the 2 Hondas manage to go that bit quicker. If I put in any more power to those gears I would be slipping. I need to stiffen or limit the rear suspension travel too, that might account for something.

Andrew Cooke

04-11-2011, 08:15

Maybe so, but I'm starting to think that the additional weight in those Honda's is helping a lot in their 330'. I'm confident I could not have gone any quicker in the 330' on Saturday, bar finding some way to speed up the 1-2 shift, yet the 2 Hondas manage to go that bit quicker. If I put in any more power to those gears I would be slipping. I need to stiffen or limit the rear suspension travel too, that might account for something.

it'll be a combination of weight distribution, wheelbase, and maybe C of G. It's possible that bolting a girder under the front bumper would make you faster. I don't think weight per-se would help unless it flattens the tyres out more?

Rob@Backyardracing

05-11-2011, 15:01

it'll be a combination of weight distribution, wheelbase, and maybe C of G. It's possible that bolting a girder under the front bumper would make you faster. I don't think weight per-se would help unless it flattens the tyres out more?

yes id have to agree with andy, i dont think the weight is helping them, but i bet they have more of it over the front wheels, certainly miller etc have a lot past the front wheels with forward facing turbos, and batterys right behind the front bumper along with tanks for charge coolers and balast. i know some are knocking on the door of 80/20 weight distribuiton. have you corner weighed your car scoff?

i say the weight is not helping becouse the N/A civics are lighter and faster to 60` and not much behind the 330` with no where near the power. the N/A guys average high 1.4x 60`s for the field

Andrew Cooke

06-11-2011, 09:05

wow, 80/20, surely that's not with driver installed? Either way that'll be a huge difference, I'd optimistically put Scoff at 70/30. I'm aiming for 65/35 in my 5 for hillclimbing, I'm at 63/37...

So without reference to all the sums I posted way back...

say Chris is currently 900Kg all up, 70/30 weight distribution, 240cm wheel base, 40cm centre of gravity, and under way can maintain 1G of acceleration before wheelspin.

statically he has 630Kg loading the front wheels
weight transfer at 1G will be 900 * 40/240 = 150Kg
so dynamic load will be 480Kg

So 480Kg vertical load will allow his tyres to pull 900Kg along at 1G, I'll assume that the load-traction effect is linear... (480/900 = 0.533)

so, add 50Kg 60cm forwards of the front wheel line at 20cm height... (I think the quote is "traction by GWR")
That will add 62.5Kg to the front axle and remove 12.5Kg from the rear.
New weight distribution = 72.9%

It's a bit early for this, but CofG will be lower by about 1cm, so now it's 39cm (?)
weight transfer at 1G will be 950*39/240 = 154Kg
giving a dynamic front load of 538.5Kg (at 1G)
(538.5/950 = 0.567)

0.567/0.533 = 1.06, so acceleration should go up to 1.06G, however, weight transfer will go up due to increased traction : 1.06*154 = 163 Kg, so real dynamic load would be 529.5Kg, bla bla bla, call it 1.05G at a guess :D is that enough to make up for the reduced acceleration in the middle section of the track?

bugger, just realised that the 950Kg also needs to be multiplied by acceleration, so that all washes out to ~ 1.045G... not that drivel I wrote before :laugh:

80/20 static would be 720Kg, weight transfer at 1G the same 150Kg, so a dynamic load of 570Kg (570/900 = 0.633, =19% more traction @1G..) bla bla again, 1.14G.

I've just put this lot into a spreadsheet to try to make it easier to change numbers, with my simple linear tyre model the total weight makes no difference to traction, it's all about the distribution, CofG and wheelbase.

eg, extending the wheelbase with a 1m long bar (from rear axel line) would take that 1G up to 1.07G... and 2m up to 1.12G

all according to my dodgy sums...

Tony Walker

06-11-2011, 09:38

If your not bothered about handling, im sure massive improvements could be made on the original torsion bar setup, its rediculously heavy, do regulations allow a redesign?

Scoff

06-11-2011, 12:59

Andy, thankyou, thats fascinating. I'm going to have to read that a few more times to absorb it properly but I get the jist already. Car is 920kg with me in it currently.

You know me, if it doesn't exist in the engine bay I havn't a clue, this is all very new to me so bare with me.

I can see that distribution makes a big difference. I can see that wheelbase makes a big difference too. So a question: will removing most of the travel from the rear suspension affect weight transfer much ? I can imagine that if the rear was 100% solid that during acceleration the rear end won't be able to squat. My mind wants to tell me that this will have the same effect as wheelie bars but I guess I'm missing something obvious ?

I had already planned to work on weight distribution over winter but this is giving me more encouragement to do it.

Tony, I havn't had a torsion bar installed for 5 years :)

Andrew Cooke

06-11-2011, 13:23

stiffening the rear will make no difference to weight transfer.

However, I'm lead to believe that it does improve the 60ft, I can only assume that's to do with stopping the car rocking fore and aft (maybe diagonally?) making the tyres bounce, or maybe it's just a feel thing? Either way, that's a very different effect to fundamentally keeping the weight on the driven tyres.

Dave Reed

06-11-2011, 13:56

I think you may find, that if you make the rear end solid, the front wheels may try and leave the ground! But still well worth ago, considering it wouldn't be that hard to knock up..
Wheel bars effectively increase the wheel base? well that's my thinking on it... You'd probably do more good if you made an anti lift kit for the front.. this could, at a guess, be quite easy, you could fit some (harness material, not sure what it is :) ) around the coils of the springs, maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't work.

I'm sure I'll be pointed right :D

And Andy, is there anthing you don't know :D

Scoff

06-11-2011, 14:16

Yeah, I tried near solid rear suspension last year when I turreted the rear and ran coilovers. It didn't feel that much better in the 60', maybe a bit more controlable if and when spin occured. BUT it felt lethal at the top of the track. It would bounce on the slightest undulation and I had some stomach turning moments after the trap. It got removed and I went back to a normal torsion bar.

The front suspension is pretty good already I think, it doesn't appear to move in the launch. They're very stiff springs which are working much better than the lesser springs I had before. I compromise on the damping though, it seems too stiff is not good, my take on that is the suspension needs to be able to deal with the transients in launch but really I've just set it to whatever works best.

Sorry for making a mess of your thread rob! :crap:

Dave Reed

06-11-2011, 14:29

Yeah I could see near solid rear ends being scary at the top end!!

I'm not sure if you've looked into it much, but, I'm sure you can get trick dampers that actually push down when accelerating, design specifically for FWD drag cars.. Not sure if it was BS from the guy I was speaking to though, he was foreign :D

Hahaha don't worry about Rob, he's a ricer these days, and as we own French cars we can ruin his thread, it's in the RTOC rules ;):D:D only kidding rob.

Loving the civic too Rob, looking purposeful these days :agree:

Andrew Cooke

06-11-2011, 15:04

And Andy, is there anthing you don't know :D

plenty, but I confuse everyone by using O level maths and physics using all the wrong units and terms to solve degree level problems, makes me seem like a flawed genius :laugh:

I'm sure that there is something in damping, but it's the icing on the cake and not the cake itself. Chris will find a lot more performance for a lot less money in the way that he always does.

Rob@Backyardracing

06-11-2011, 18:11

Yeah wheelie bars effectively lengthen the wheelbase I don't think it's the same as a stiff suspension setup, and they say the longer the arrow the straighter it flies :)

rs250nut

06-11-2011, 18:33

When I looked at buying a civic I started a thead on ht with a fair few people mentioning the longer wheel base eg being the car to go for, did I listen did I f**k. What poundage springs are you fast chaps using? 800lb-1000lb?

Rob@Backyardracing

04-03-2012, 22:11

Possible Sale of car coming soon!!...

Rob@Backyardracing

08-04-2012, 17:03

Ok, the time has come to sell our civic project.. Times have changed and other work commitments just mean there is no time or space to carry on with this car... Im going to sell it at a price ive been told by many in the drag racing game is too cheap and id be better of breaking it but i feel its a far price and im looking for Offers over £5,000..... This is the first place ive put the car up for sale...

Tony Walker

08-04-2012, 20:28

Does sound like a bargain for all those components and work. Good luck with the sale :agree:

rs250nut

08-04-2012, 23:30

Rob@Backyardracing

29-04-2012, 21:51

Well the Civic went to a new home last week.. I think i can say our drag racing days are over and cut short as that cars a 9second car.. I loved every minute of it and met some great people through it and i could say this club got more involved in to the sport.. As times moved on i just dont have the time to race the civic or fund it as now im deeply involved racing 2 porsches in the Porsche Club Champ and a chance to get my hands more involved racing a GT3 carrera cup soon...

Would like to thank Dean and Ant part of BYR racing, awsome mates, and also Scoff plus anyone else involved with us and drag racing over the many years...... :agree::agree::agree:

Dont worry i aint leaving the Club as i still have my PH1 GT :), time to blow the dust of the old girl i feel.....

Thanks all......Project Thread Finished....