View Full Version : New stuff for 2011
It doesn't happen very often, but half an hour ago I was bored. To pass the time I decided to lift some of the progress pictures off my phone and post them here incase anyone gives a crap about what I've been up to for the last month :cartman:
For those that don't know, I own a 16v turbo R5 that I use to compete in whatever drag race events I can con my way into.
Engine wise I'm happy for now. This year it was making about 550hp from a garrett GT35/40R and quite a lot of boost. That was being fed through an old 02J 5 speed VW gearbox, hugely more capable than the original Renault gearbox but still I was able to smash gears on a couple of occasions. It also had the slowest synchro's at high RPM I've ever come across, so bad that I could shift quicker in my old citroen xantia diesel, so it had to go.
After much reading I decided to press on with yet another gearbox conversion. This time I've built a 6 speed Audi 02M (found in the Audi TT, RS4, Golf R32, etc). They're hugely stronger, have better bearings, better casing, bigger diff, bigger clutch, bigger output shafts, bigger inner CV's and most importantly they have synchromesh's that can shift gear above 7500rpm !
I built a gearbox from a mix of ratios and diff to suit my racing and set about installing it.
First up, the old 02J before I pulled it out:
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Scoff/02M%20conversion/1_old_setup.JPG
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Scoff/02M%20conversion/2_old_setup.JPG
I ordered a new 240mm billet flywheel from the USA, unwrapped it and set about welding it up. I milled off the weld to form a blank:
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Scoff/02M%20conversion/3_welded_flywheel.JPG
Then I drilled the renault crank stud pattern to fit it to my engine:
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Scoff/02M%20conversion/4_re-drilled_flywheel.JPG
I also bought a new SPEC drag clutch from the USA rated to over 600lb/ft, but forgot to take a picture of it.
Gearbox installed and a new solid gearbox-to-chassis rail mount manufactured and fitted:
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Scoff/02M%20conversion/5_02M_installed.JPG
Since the new gearbox is 6 speed I had to make some new gear linkages. I couldn't be bothered removing the old 5 speed cable shifter out of the car so I modified the 5 speed cables to accept some 8mm rose joints and then made it all fit onto the 6 speed mechanism:
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Scoff/02M%20conversion/6_02M_gear_linkages.JPG
Rear engine mount was made and the lot was bolted down again:
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Scoff/02M%20conversion/7_02M_installed.JPG
Because the new gearbox is so large compared with the old one it ment that nothing else would fit back into the bay. I needed to make a new exhaust manifold and downpipe to clear the bigger casing. This gave me opertunity to improve on the manifold design. I won't bore you with the details, but it should work a lot better:
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Scoff/02M%20conversion/8_making_new_exhaust_manifold.JPG
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Scoff/02M%20conversion/9_making_new_exhaust_manifold.JPG
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Scoff/02M%20conversion/10_making_new_exhaust_manifold.JPG
I also decided to chop up the front of the subframe and move the cross member down 120mm or so to mount the radiator lower down. This should give me adequate clearance for the new inlet manifold and larger plenum.
You may also notice I've chopped about with the bulkhead a bit, to give me more room for the new exhaust manifold. I was sick of not being able to get spanners onto stuff at the back of the engine, so that needless "boob" in the bulkhead got, er, mastected.
And thats all for now :)
Chris, I don't know what to say but that is bloody amazing, loving watching this project go through the changes and then hearing and seeing the results on the strip.
Keep up the good work:agree: think you have deserved a :coffee:
Superb work as always:agree:
SCHWARTZ
24-10-2010, 01:11
looks amazing hope this can get you into the 9's;):agree:
rs250nut
24-10-2010, 08:54
Nice work mister, how far over have you had to move the strut tops? I take it thats clearance for the wheels. I see your mate has just gone 10.14 in his Tigra. Esc should be good next year.
Adey aka Ewok
24-10-2010, 10:13
this is looking realy good bud well done :agree:
Woznaldo
24-10-2010, 11:05
Top work Scoff!! I love it when people take on projects like this and throw time and ingenuity in larger chunks than cash (some stuff is just easier/cheaper to buy).
I was wondering how the O2J was handling the abuse :laugh:, hope the O2M serves you better. Clutch sounds like it might be up to the job! The flywheel looks sweet too.
I don't know if you have already but, do you measure any vibrations of the gearbox after you've fitted it, to check the alinement is true and not throwing any bizarre harmonics into the mix? It would of course require some kind of analysis equipment which would be common place in aviation but, probably not in the automotive world.
I suppose checking the internal condition of the O2J would give a pretty good indication of haw things are holding up?
I'm waffling now.......
Top work!:agree:
Top work Chris, think I'll be stripping mine down in the next couple of weeks. Just waiting for a few parts, need a hydraulic clutch pedal and suitable pipework, then the timing and aux kit.
Then hopefully next year with the stronger box I'll get it on the strip and lose my virginity :D
Are those vvt delete cams that I spy there?
THE MASTER
24-10-2010, 12:11
pure brilliace :smokin:
TNT ANDY
24-10-2010, 12:22
I was going to do this to mine.
But I'm absolutely ******* useless at everything. Best left to 'The Scoff'.
Nice work Scoff - Like Coll' says - pure brilliance.:agree:
i l k e r
24-10-2010, 12:48
top work chief :agree:
more info about the flywheel would be nice :sos:
Rob@Backyardracing
24-10-2010, 12:49
Storm a 9sec pass once you sort that box.. :) :agree:
I like how he makes it sound oh so simple :laugh: " found a box .made it fit then made everything else fit around it " :smokin:
Awesome as always mate, hope it all works as planned :agree:
Dave Reed
24-10-2010, 14:08
Wow, that is truly amazing mate!! Wish I had half your skills :cry:
Oh i was wondering how to do that:confused::scratch: :)
Markey Mark (BD)
24-10-2010, 16:31
Cracking work mate, looking forward to seeing it run again next year and even poss running with you lot in the ESC. :agree::)
Looks amazing carnt wait to see it run!:agree:
Rob@Backyardracing
24-10-2010, 18:35
oh, new exhaust mani looks good, no divided t4 then, or might you still chop it up if the sums work?
some speedy work too that for such a big conversion, would take a mortal a year that lot :D
Matt Cole
24-10-2010, 20:19
Utter brilliance!!:D Puts me to shame on even the simpler things i need to do!! Hope it all goes to plan Scoff, and lets see 600bhp on the motorscope rollers next year!!:agree:
Top work Scoff!! I love it when people take on projects like this and throw time and ingenuity in larger chunks than cash (some stuff is just easier/cheaper to buy).
I was wondering how the O2J was handling the abuse :laugh:, hope the O2M serves you better. Clutch sounds like it might be up to the job! The flywheel looks sweet too.
I don't know if you have already but, do you measure any vibrations of the gearbox after you've fitted it, to check the alinement is true and not throwing any bizarre harmonics into the mix? It would of course require some kind of analysis equipment which would be common place in aviation but, probably not in the automotive world.
I suppose checking the internal condition of the O2J would give a pretty good indication of haw things are holding up?
I'm waffling now.......
Top work!:agree:
Honestly, no idea buddy, you're thinking well ahead of me :) I did spend a lot of time with alignment first time round though. This time I'm re-using all the old VAG clobber, the new 6 speed bolted right on so it should be no different to before I hope.
Nice work mister, how far over have you had to move the strut tops? I take it thats clearance for the wheels. I see your mate has just gone 10.14 in his Tigra. Esc should be good next year.
Nah, nothing to do with clearance, it's a camber thing.
I was at pod again today with glenn and specky. Glenn testing his new tyres (working OK, but track was poor at the end of the day by the time we'd ironed out the new settings). Specky managed a new PB, 10.04 @ 143 :)
Are those vvt delete cams that I spy there?
Nope, just an old exhaust pulley I did in the lathe to fit on the inlet cam. I had to do some other fangled stuff to block the de-phaser oil supply, but otherwise pretty straight forward. I was getting play in the de-phaser, making it hard to time up.
top work chief :agree:
more info about the flywheel would be nice :sos:
What did you need to know ? It's just a VAG steel flywheel from SPEC in the USA. I figured steel would be easier to machine (the old cast one was a pain in the ass to do and then had to enlist the help of Ashy to lighten it) and should be a bit safer at high rpm's I hope.
oh, new exhaust mani looks good, no divided t4 then, or might you still chop it up if the sums work?
some speedy work too that for such a big conversion, would take a mortal a year that lot :D
Re manifold, well, I thought about that and planned for the future this time round. I broke the rules a bit and stacked complementing cylinders vertically such that I could, in the future, cut the flange off, slip a divider in and weld on a twin-scroll flange. I'm not sure I'm going to have the RPM to go spooling those big 1.0+ a/r twin-scrolls any time soon, but at least I have that option.
lets see 600bhp on the motorscope rollers next year!!:agree:
Ah well, remember matt, that day I had my old 1800cc, standard cammed motor in. I think if I'd have gone back this year with the 2L setup I'd have seen that 600 BSHP and then some :D (Bull Sh1t horse power). I'd be happy with a real 600hp at the start of next year. I should be able to squeze that on the current turbo. Then I have a bigger compressor in the pipeline that should really get things cooking.
Matt Cole
24-10-2010, 21:06
Ah well, remember matt, that day I had my old 1800cc, standard cammed motor in. I think if I'd have gone back this year with the 2L setup I'd have seen that 600 BSHP and then some :D (Bull Sh1t horse power). I'd be happy with a real 600hp at the start of next year. I should be able to squeze that on the current turbo. Then I have a bigger compressor in the pipeline that should really get things cooking.
Scoff, BS figuers or not, it looks nice on a printout!!:D Talking of gearboxes, i was looking at suitable van gear boxes to bolt to the 225 block but only 5 speed due to length limitations. An early Nissan box iv'e been looking at has the same NDO bolt pattern and would allow a 240mm clutch and flywheel combo to be used. I guess the box would be suitable for big torque coming from a 2 tonne van:D. Not sure what the gearing would be like though...................
Big Steve - Raider
25-10-2010, 08:44
:goodpost::goodJob::worship:
i l k e r
25-10-2010, 14:23
What did you need to know ? It's just a VAG steel flywheel from SPEC in the USA. I figured steel would be easier to machine (the old cast one was a pain in the ass to do) and should be a bit safer at high rpm's I hope.
how did you manage to weld it without warping it? did you use a mig?
cheers
wot can i say your the man :cooter: keep up the good work son :D
I like how he makes it sound oh so simple :laugh: " found a box .made it fit then made everything else fit around it " :smokin:
:laugh::laugh::laugh: Was thinking the same thing:laugh:
Threads like this are just brilliant:agree: - for the new kids on the block like myself, who struggle with the basics...........these kind of projects are great inspiration!!
As for not wanting to bore us with the details - BORE ME:D:D - Its been a great learning curve so far and threads with "good" information are always interesting to read!!!
Keep the updates coming Chris:agree:
DK DEVELOPMENTS
25-10-2010, 19:56
Well done buddy you have got a great tallent for tuning and fabrication
Andrew Cooke
25-10-2010, 20:15
what's the oil filter? Oh, I suppose and why that one?
what's the oil filter? Oh, I suppose and why that one?
how does "because it was cheap" grab you ? :laugh:
It's a standard diesel F block filter I think, but of a reputable brand. I ditched the cooler long ago, it seemed a bit pointless in a drag car.
Epic build mate, hats off to you, your 5 is one hell of a weapon!
Duncan Grier
27-10-2010, 13:58
Chris glad you have found a suitable upgrade - loving the work and you do kind of make it look easy :D - not a cable tie in sight ;)
Can only imagine that car is becoming a bit violent to drive and not for the faint hearted!
What have you done for a diff in that box?
DG
Can only imagine that car is becoming a bit violent to drive and not for the faint hearted!
What have you done for a diff in that box?
DG
Its standard for now duncan, I don't feel I'd benefit from one with the big drag tyres. it'd make life a sh1t load easier in the burn out though, currently a bit of a pain trying to get both wheels to light up at the same time. If the box holds out then I'll put one in over summer.
Alastair
30-10-2010, 10:35
Stunning car, amazing level of intelligent work gone into it. Good luck for the forthcoming season :agree:
Progress has been a bit slow past few weeks with work and other cars to deal with but managed to spend another chunk of time on it this weekend.
First up was hydraulic clutch. I used Michael Teirney's idea and mounted the master cylinder vertically in the bulkhead having added a linkage to the top of the pedal:
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Scoff/02M%20conversion/11_modified_clutch_pedal.jpg
Mini master cylinder mounted:
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Scoff/02M%20conversion/12_master_cylinder.jpg
The pedal mech and cylinder work perfectly, but unfortunately it seems there may not be quite enough volume in the cylinder to fully disengage the clutch. IE, slave cylinder wants more fluid. You can fully compress the master cylinder and it's enough to "flip" the springs in the clutch, and sure enough the clutch is disengaged but I think it might want to drag a bit. So for now it'll do, I won't know if it's a problem until it's running again.
Then I finished the manifold. Getting the last runner in was a bit tricky since I had to leave enough space for the downpipe plus it had to navigate the huge gearbox and whatever else is down there. They are all equal length within 1/4", resonance tuned. The keen manifold makers amongst you might spot the odd collector order. Done so I can divide the ports should I want to go twin scroll in the future.
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Scoff/02M%20conversion/13_manifold.jpg
Then I got the wastegate and dump pipe done. This time it sits below the turbine housing:
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Scoff/02M%20conversion/14_wastegate.jpg
I started on the downpipe too but didn't bother taking any more pictures. I'll do that next week.
scoffsport exhaust work of art :)
Rob@Backyardracing
15-11-2010, 08:13
what gate is that? 60mm? looks like a precision gate, but they only come in 44mm i think.
did you make your own collector too, or buy it in? looks very pro anyhow :)
p.s you should condsider doing those manifold for conversions for people, the yanks charge crazy money for theres, i bet yours is as good :)
http://www.full-race.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_716_754_724&products_id=1235
$1425 + shipping + import tax! ouch
Rob it's a turbosmart pro-gate 50, thought I told you last week ? collector is made from tube, just the flange I bought.
dave j gtt
08-01-2011, 19:01
Epic stuff :cool: Quality :smokin:
Chris Hebden
09-01-2011, 16:50
Blooming marvelous mate!
Cheers, its on hold for a bit while I move house but hoping to resume in Feb. Collected a few more bits in the mean while, nothing of any great interest though :)
Excellent work as always Scoff, Manifold is very nice :) Loving the use of Mini Parts aswell :D
Chris Hebden
09-01-2011, 19:31
Scoff, what were the bolt patterns on g/b compared to block like? Did you have much work to get them to line up?
Scoff, what were the bolt patterns on g/b compared to block like? Did you have much work to get them to line up?
compared with the old 02J ? they are the same, more or less. If you ment how did they compare with the renault bolt pattern then they're totally different - the VW pattern is a lot broader meaning the new bellhousing overhangs the renault bolt pattern.
Bit of an update, progress is slow because I'm getting ready for a house move but I found some motivation today to machine up the injector bosses for the new inlet manifold. Thanks to clee for having the backplate with integral trumpets made for me. I made a demo runner too, it all fits pretty well. Hopefully tomorrow I can finish the other runners and start tacking it together.
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Scoff/02M%20conversion/inlet-manifol-bits.JPG
compared with the old 02J ? they are the same, more or less. If you ment how did they compare with the renault bolt pattern then they're totally different - the VW pattern is a lot broader meaning the new bellhousing overhangs the renault bolt pattern.
Bit of an update, progress is slow because I'm getting ready for a house move but I found some motivation today to machine up the injector bosses for the new inlet manifold. Thanks to clee for having the backplate with integral trumpets made for me. I made a demo runner too, it all fits pretty well. Hopefully tomorrow I can finish the other runners and start tacking it together.
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Scoff/02M%20conversion/inlet-manifol-bits.JPG
You making two of those and we'll go halves on the development costs? :D
development costs = 2x sheet of A4 and an HB pencil :p
Rob@Backyardracing
16-01-2011, 00:04
development costs = 2x sheet of A4 and an HB pencil :p
lol...
What is best size plenum you can fit?
lol...
What is best size plenum you can fit?
4.5ltr at a guess. The only bit I sat down and designed was the parts you see in the picture. making the plenum will be a bit on-the-fly once I've got the rest inplace :)
looks good, is it all from stainless?
rs250nut
16-01-2011, 12:10
4.5ltr at a guess. The only bit I sat down and designed was the parts you see in the picture. making the plenum will be a bit on-the-fly once I've got the rest inplace :)
Will the plenum be of a tapered design or do you have enough room to mount the throttle in the middle?
It'll have a bit of a taper jon, end fed from behind the o/s headlamp, but I'm going for volume inplace of a sharp taper. My boost run is only 60mm, I think I would need to increase that and the size of the throttle if I wasn't going with volume.
Andrew Cooke
16-01-2011, 13:48
looking good Chris. 60mm? just as well you're not looking for much power ;)
Matt Cole
16-01-2011, 16:26
Looking good Scoff. :agree: I'll be looking at my manifold eventually in 2019 possibly! I think the existing is something like 40mm dia. Not sure on the volume but its piss poor. Im also using a 70mm throttle body which may have something to do with slight hesitancy on initial throttle?
I guess its worth building something with a little more capacity!:eek::agree:
looking good Chris. 60mm? just as well you're not looking for much power ;)
I know, I just can't help but think it'll make no difference. Compressor outlet ID is 55mm. I can see that it would make more difference if I didn't have a lot of volume in the plenum. Maybe I'll go upto 73mm boost hoses and 80mm throttle sometime in the year so I can see what difference it makes.
Matt, could be - the big throttle makes it harder for the ECU to judge transient throttle enrichments. Your older ECU has only a 2D throttle pump effect, newer hardware and firmwares have a full 3D map-prediction system that means you can have the throttle response of an OEM :)
looks good, is it all from stainless?
it's all allu mate. :)
Looking good Chris, I wish I had the tools to do stuff like that.
Can't wait to see this in action later this year, any idea on when you want to start testing @ pod?
Looking good Chris, I wish I had the tools to do stuff like that.
Can't wait to see this in action later this year, any idea on when you want to start testing @ pod?
The plates are CNC steve, I made the injector bosses on the lathe and runners by hand.
I started tacking the inlet manifold together today. Hopefully I'll get the plenum and throttle done tomorrow ready for welding next week. Turns out the throttle is 65mm and I thought it was 60mm so I had to re jig a few parts to cater for that.
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Scoff/02M%20conversion/inlet1.JPG
When your disappointed with your first attempt and decide your gonna make a new and improved MK II version, I'll be more than happy to take your "cast off" for mine :D
work of art:cool:
looks far better than mine:cry:
dave j gtt
12-02-2011, 20:31
Nice work :cool: You in your new house yet? hope not if thats your new kitchen worktop or is that just the garage :wasntme:
Hope all your plans come together nicely and you get to max out this year on the power you were making last year.
All the work looking and sounding excellent.
To see more upgrades/power pushed thru the engine in next couple of years wouldnt even matter, Its phenomenal so far, Yet you have left yourself other options and future ideas :smokin:
Fingers Crossed for the gearbox :cool: and a sub 10 first shot on strip :wasntme:
Lovin the board mate .... Look forward to catching up soon mate :)
Finished tacking the manifold together tonight
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Scoff/02M%20conversion/manifold-tacked.JPG
Scoff very impressive you have no end of talent :agree::agree: looks super sexy:cooter:
Its not super neat to be fair, but it should work OK :)
Rob@Backyardracing
18-02-2011, 00:25
Nice work mate...:)
What a great work of art you have built , fantastic stuff hope you achieve your new goals for 2011:agree:
rs250nut
18-02-2011, 07:38
Have you got an ac/dc set in the garage then chris?
No jon, just tacked with a mig & argon. I'd love a tig, no space, it'll be something I invest in and learn once I'm set up in the new garage though :)
That's looking all very sorted .You going to mirror polish it ?
Just realised how it will sit on on your setup will make the boost pipe run alot shorter aswell, looking forward to seeing your car at national day this year:D
Matt Cole
18-02-2011, 18:44
Scoff,
Tigs can be really small units:
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/arc-tig-85-power-inverter/path/plasma-cutters-arctig-welders
thats smaller than a lunch box!!:D
matt, yes mate, but when I say no space I mean zero, nowt, literally couldn't fit another thing in the garage :sad2: I'd need an ac too, which tend to be a bit bigger :)
james, yes thats the plan. throttle is really tight on the headlamp surround, need to hack it away to get the throttle sensor in.
lee, erm :laugh:
For those of you that don't currently have erections...
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Scoff/02M%20conversion/manifold-done-1.JPG
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Scoff/02M%20conversion/manifold-done-2.JPG
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Scoff/02M%20conversion/manifold-done-3.JPG
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Scoff/02M%20conversion/manifold-done-4.JPG
A big thanks to the Glenster, Mr. HI5 for donating the bit of fuel rail extrusion, all his work sorting out the welding guy and the help thereafter. He also managed to convince me that it ought to be polished :laugh: Lets see how long that'll last :ashamed:
So that was today, I finished the fuel rail, did the final port shaping and polished the rest of it.
SCHWARTZ
26-02-2011, 22:34
Looks fuking amazing bud. Top darts.:worship:
a work of damn art that.. well done
looking good mate, it'll make changing the plugs sooooo much easier ;)
looking good mate, it'll make changing the plugs sooooo much easier ;)
and inspecting them, it's a big bonus :cool:
Josie172cup
27-02-2011, 01:36
looks fantastic, i've just been watching some of your vids on youtube, awesom stuff
Maybe a silly question but do you use it on the road Scoff?
Adey aka Ewok
27-02-2011, 08:19
ooo, i want one, exit to the left tho please :agree:
Matt Cole
27-02-2011, 09:16
Oh very very nice and looks the part too!! Amazing job.:agree:
TNT ANDY
27-02-2011, 10:24
I have a bonner:D
TrixNFlix
27-02-2011, 10:42
That welding looks absolutely perfect. :cool:
So what's next to get the shiney treatment? :D
ohhh luverly ...you can see your face in that :p
That looks the business now innit :agree:
Maybe a silly question but do you use it on the road Scoff?
Not so much really, to and from national day and the occasional show or something. If there's a few of you it can be a good laugh :)
or blattin down welsh country roads with a mk1 5 tl attached to the back of it ;-)
Rob@Backyardracing
27-02-2011, 17:08
Sweet..... You got the ID2000s yet? :) you will have pop over to my new garage soon...
There's a good bit of pussy in one of the pics:D:laugh:
Functional and polished!!:eek: Very nice bit of kit indeed;)
or blattin down welsh country roads with a mk1 5 tl attached to the back of it ;-)
Ha, it was the other way around I think :D
Awesome engineering :agree:
newbstar*
28-02-2011, 12:40
A guy on passionford ,has made billet throttlebody for cosworths.It would sit nice on the end Ibelieve its replicating the jenvey one.
ooo, i want one, exit to the left tho please :agree:
x2 :D
Spare time over the last couple of months has been skant but I have been steadilly cracking on. I'll get some pictures up tomorrow maybe.
I got it fired up tonight with the old loom layed over the engine, all seems to be running OK. Manifolds and fuel rail all working fine. Gearbox has some odd problem that means I can't select gears easilly with the engine running. It got too late in the evening for me to run the engine long enough to diagnose but hoping it's because the gearbox is bone dry inside. Or, clutch might be dis-engaging too far and pressing the spring cover against the plate, which should be an easy adjustment.
I need to get that resolved next weekend then on with mapping I hope.
Chris :)
dave j gtt
09-05-2011, 00:15
:smokin: looking forward to more mind bending pics of how you get stuff done and make things possible :D
I had to go in to the garage this evening to make something up for someone and ended up playing with the car for another hour or 2.
I found the clutch/gear problem - thankfully an easy fix, turns out the slave clyinder is allowing me to press too far and is pushing the spring cover in to the drive plate! If you press the clutch just past half way everything works great. Then, if you press further you can hear the cover start to mesh with the plate and the car wants to pull forward. The harder you press the clutch the more drive you get :laugh: Quite a weird feeling. But I can re-jig the pedal ratio and put an adjustable stop on the floor to stop the pedal moving too far.
great work chris keep it up:)
Matt Cole
11-05-2011, 22:05
I had to go in to the garage this evening to make something up for someone and ended up playing with the car for another hour or 2.
I found the clutch/gear problem - thankfully an easy fix, turns out the slave clyinder is allowing me to press too far and is pushing the spring cover in to the drive plate! If you press the clutch just past half way everything works great. Then, if you press further you can hear the cover start to mesh with the plate and the car wants to pull forward. The harder you press the clutch the more drive you get :laugh: Quite a weird feeling. But I can re-jig the pedal ratio and put an adjustable stop on the floor to stop the pedal moving too far.
Scoff, are you saying it could be the size of the slave too big? Been looking at a solution for myself, a combined resevoir/slave from another car.
Rob@Backyardracing
11-05-2011, 22:25
Good find scoff... crack on mate with it... Have pop over soon see how your getting on... Will you be at RTOC pod day??
matt, nah I think it's just the master shifting too much fluid. I had to use a VW slave cyl as a master cyl because the mini one didn't have quite enough volume. This new one has too much, but thats an easy fix.
Rob, yes m8 :)
Engine bay mostly done now. I need to get the new rear beam on (thanks Ashy) and general tidying up ready for MOT and a basic map to get it to and from national day.
The clutch is hardcore, driving 'calmly' in and out of the garage is no longer an option !
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Scoff/02M%20conversion/done1.JPG
http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Scoff/02M%20conversion/done2.JPG
Adey aka Ewok
22-05-2011, 08:46
nice, very nice. looks tidy in there :agree: what sort of gains do you think youll have with the new inlet manifold?
I need to stop looking at these threads..... Makes my car look stock :D
Looking good mate!!
rs250nut
22-05-2011, 10:34
Hope it goes well for you this year Mr Scoff, first gtt into the nines:agree:
BluntyR5GTT
22-05-2011, 10:38
Hope it goes well for you this year Mr Scoff, first gtt into the nines:agree:
ill second that :)
Rob@Backyardracing
22-05-2011, 11:18
Awsome mate, just awsome.. :)
Cheers lads. Adey, no idea mate, I'd be happy with any gain, I'm more concerned with the gearbox being better than last year.
Flan, thats because you've taken the time and effort to make yours look like it could have rolled off the production line like that. I don't have the patients :crap:
Looking good :cool:
Are those tie wraps I can see :coffee:
amazing mate well done with that , love the effort all the time, see you soon matt
Andrew Cooke
22-05-2011, 16:44
as ever, a really neat installation.
With regard to your clutch stop, I temporarily bolted a bit of 3x2 to the floor in my car. It's still there, but I like to think of it as touching wood every time I change gear :D
lee (eyes like a sh1t house rat :D), I still need to make a couple brackets.
andy, turns out the fix was an easy one, a few washers under the m/cylinder to shim it up 2mm did the job.
spent the morning swapping the rear beam, not a job I want to repeat in a hurry. Thought I was buggered for a moment when I had to destroy a handbrake cable to get it out of the caliper. where was I going to get one from on a sunday ? then I rememberd about 6 years ago I'd won a prize at one of jaffa's rolling road days - you guessed it - a pair of brand new renault OE hand brake cables !! Still at the back of the garage :D saved the day nicely :D So now the handbrake works better than ever too. (nice one J)
shiney **** its got to go faster lol:D
Looks awesome mate,I'm sure all the graft will pay off:smokin:
Andrew Cooke
23-05-2011, 08:16
nothing wrong with tyraps, F1 would be in real trouble if the FIA banned them :D
Dave Reed
23-05-2011, 10:53
Wow cracking stuff mate :agree: Can't wait to see it in the flesh..
Awesome effort mate, :cool:
:agree: Nice work as always!
Cable ties:laugh:
I get a right ribbing for using em!
I like to think of them as quick release:coffee:
Dude, fyi
Just found out the Elise boys run their stock clutch master cylinder if using the 6 speed box.... it works OK, the travel is bit long but its nice and light. If it's 5 speed box with stock slave cylinder they have to run a bigger 0.75 cylinder.
Flan
Matt Cole
25-05-2011, 17:32
Scoff,
Brilliant job, well done! Just a quick one though, how come you have the fuel return out from the rail instead of returning at the regulator?
Adey aka Ewok
25-05-2011, 17:38
it does you can see it on the left of the picture?
Sorry matt, not sure what your asking buddy. Rail is piped in the usual way. Feeds in on the left and return is on the right :)
Rob@Backyardracing
25-05-2011, 22:19
Sorry matt, not sure what your asking buddy. Rail is piped in the usual way. Feeds in on the left and return is on the right :)
Thought you would have binned the return and reg by now and map your fuel pressure.. :)
Matt Cole
25-05-2011, 22:52
Sorry matt, not sure what your asking buddy. Rail is piped in the usual way. Feeds in on the left and return is on the right :)
Sorry, should have explained why i asked!;) I'm using a 3 port reg with a rail which only has the inlet. The return is from the regulator. Ive wondered if allowing constant flow through the rail would make any difference??
Thought you would have binned the return and reg by now and map your fuel pressure.. :)
Map the pressure ? Or map for a constant pressure ? The latter is horrible with big injectors !
Rob@Backyardracing
26-05-2011, 07:13
Map the pressure ? Or map for a constant pressure ? The latter is horrible with big injectors !
Could you Map the voltage regulator for the fuel pump against map pressure/rpm??
Could you Map the voltage regulator for the fuel pump against map pressure/rpm??
But you'd still need a return (a loop) of some kind else the pump would stall. The pump needs flow all of the time and at idle and part throttle the flow will be barely measurable. I think I'll stick with a fuel regulator ;)
Rob@Backyardracing
29-05-2011, 12:53
hmmm, how do return-less systems work? i was speaking to willday at pod last time i was there and he was running return-less, puzzled me a bit, i thought maybe controlled voltage to the pump, guess not :crap:
hmmm, how do return-less systems work? i was speaking to willday at pod last time i was there and he was running return-less, puzzled me a bit, i thought maybe controlled voltage to the pump, guess not :crap:
Have you seen how the later Clio sports and megane 225 work ? They work like that, just a feed, but in those cases the pump has a regulator built in the tank so there is still continuous flow through the pump but you don't see it. The fuel maps for those engines take in to consideration the fixed fuel pressure.
Rob@Backyardracing
29-05-2011, 13:49
ah ha, well that makes sense then :)
im guessing they run higher fuel pressure, more fuel efficent im guessing with better atmo?
Adey aka Ewok
29-05-2011, 16:23
whens its first outing then? i see speckys has just pulled 704bhp on pump fuel :eek: are you running in the same series?
Matt Cole
29-05-2011, 20:46
Have you seen how the later Clio sports and megane 225 work ? They work like that, just a feed, but in those cases the pump has a regulator built in the tank so there is still continuous flow through the pump but you don't see it. The fuel maps for those engines take in to consideration the fixed fuel pressure.
Yeah thats what i mentioned in my last post. I run a single supply to the rail and return at the regulator hense why i asked about the rail return.;)
whens its first outing then? i see speckys has just pulled 704bhp on pump fuel :eek: are you running in the same series?
Sure did, I was there when he did it yesterday :) Fair play to him and paul, it sounds really strong. He won't tell anyone the spec of his turbo so I pretended to measure it while he wasn't watching :laugh: yes, same series.
Rob, yes, but I don't know what the fuel pressure will be. 4bar or so I guess. All the ones I've tuned have used regulators because they've been conversions.
Matt, yes, your way works just as well really. I prefer to have flow through the rail when priming though, it can help with hot starting.
Update - taxed and tested, thanks to those involved and a base tune done to just shy of a bar.
Hydro clutch being a pain still, the new cylinder is sucking air in somewhere meaning it needs a bleed every 20 mins. Ordered a willwood 0.75 today, it'll be touch and go if I get that done and working in time for mallory.
Rob@Backyardracing
30-05-2011, 17:15
Sure did, I was there when he did it yesterday :) Fair play to him and paul, it sounds really strong. He won't tell anyone the spec of his turbo so I pretended to measure it while he wasn't watching :laugh: yes, same series.
Rob, yes, but I don't know what the fuel pressure will be. 4bar or so I guess. All the ones I've tuned have used regulators because they've been conversions.
Matt, yes, your way works just as well really. I prefer to have flow through the rail when priming though, it can help with hot starting.
yikes, thats a lot of power, he must of ditched that 62mm unit surely?
the race is on then for the 1st 150mph fwd car :)
Yeah, it's not 62 anymore for sure. 150mph - specky was showing me his new shoot and mount, welded into the rear cage. I think he'll probably break 150mph first. But, after me saying how good his gearbox seems to be he went and broke it the same night so he's out for another couple of weeks I guess.
Yeah, it's not 62 anymore for sure. 150mph - specky was showing me his new shoot and mount, welded into the rear cage. I think he'll probably break 150mph first. But, after me saying how good his gearbox seems to be he went and broke it the same night so he's out for another couple of weeks I guess.
he,s located a new box specky is on a mission he,s having with drawal simpton not been racing for 3 weeks
rs250nut
30-05-2011, 22:38
Yeah, it's not 62 anymore for sure. 150mph - specky was showing me his new shoot and mount, welded into the rear cage. I think he'll probably break 150mph first. But, after me saying how good his gearbox seems to be he went and broke it the same night so he's out for another couple of weeks I guess.
Was that a precision 6262 he was using? Seen these make 800hp on a fews evos hondas etc, saying that probabley on race gas
Rob@Backyardracing
31-05-2011, 08:34
have you seen how much boost they take to make those numbers though?
there not ideal.
i knew he would ditch the 62mm. im guessing he just gone upto 67mm.
good stuff though, i really believe this year the UK scene will close up considerably on the yanks, should be a great season, records will fall weekly :)
Rob, well yes, something along those lines. It looks laggy enough to be 67mm, or whatever the garrett equiv is.
Jon, definately not a PT. It's a garrett GT35 turbine, core and cover.
Update: Glenn and kev were over tonight so I pottered on with the clutch while they gabbed and drunk coffee. The new wilwood 0.75 cylinder works fine. It was too late to start the motor but the pedal feels 100% :)
:coffee:
Rob, well yes, something along those lines. It looks laggy enough to be 67mm, or whatever the garrett equiv is.
Jon, definately not a PT. It's a garrett GT35 turbine, core and cover.
Update: Glenn and kev were over tonight so I pottered on with the clutch while they gabbed and drunk coffee. The new wilwood 0.75 cylinder works fine. It was too late to start the motor but the pedal feels 100% :)
:coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee::coffee: someone say coffee be there soon lol
I pushed the tune a bit further, mechanically all is fine but the new 50mm turbosmart gate is still much too small to control boost. I didn't expect that at all, I guess I have a lot more exhaust gas than I anticipated. It'll creep from 15psi to 25psi by 6500rpm. I havn't tested further than that yet, I'm just hoping it levels out at something sensible. I should have made the room for twin 44's, or maybe I'll just have to add another 50mm to be sure. More money :(
I feel your pain :coffee:;)
TNT ANDY
07-06-2011, 21:49
I pushed the tune a bit further, mechanically all is fine but the new 50mm turbosmart gate is still much too small to control boost. I didn't expect that at all, I guess I have a lot more exhaust gas than I anticipated. It'll creep from 15psi to 25psi by 6500rpm. I havn't tested further than that yet, I'm just hoping it levels out at something sensible. I should have made the room for twin 44's, or maybe I'll just have to add another 50mm to be sure. More money :(
3 words
'Research and development'
and as Clee states - it's a right pain int' arse.
Rob@Backyardracing
07-06-2011, 22:22
Twin 44s aint mega bucks. Gates I'm using are about 300 for the pair.
Matt Cole
07-06-2011, 22:28
Twin 44s aint mega bucks. Gates I'm using are about 300 for the pair.
Yeah i have been pondering on my twin scroll setup. Two gates or two tubes into one? Its going to be difficult to sepearte my new manifold so i guess two gates could be the way forward?
Scoff i guess if your eventually going to run a twin scroll then i guess having two gates wont be a problem.
Which ones are you using Rob?
Twin 44s aint mega bucks. Gates I'm using are about 300 for the pair.
What type ? "fukyu corporation of china" or something branded ? I paid a load more than that for the single 50mm thats on now. You know my feelings about cheap wastegates :crap:
Rob@Backyardracing
08-06-2011, 00:28
I'm yet to order mine but demon do some gates and they look ok, a good copy of tail. Also obx do some cheap ones.. Scoff and you know my feelings they work!! Its only a valve and spring, what can go wrong.. The gates am talking about aint as cheap as xs etc or any of that stuff..
I'm yet to order mine but demon do some gates and they look ok, a good copy of tail. Also obx do some cheap ones.. Scoff and you know my feelings they work!! Its only a valve and spring, what can go wrong.. The gates am talking about aint as cheap as xs etc or any of that stuff..
Me and Robbie run Demon gates no real issues yet apart from the **** paper gaskets they come with.
Rob@Backyardracing
08-06-2011, 12:33
Me and Robbie run Demon gates no real issues yet apart from the **** paper gaskets they come with.
Which gasket is this? Explain more :)
Which gasket is this? Explain more :)
They come with this green paper/cardboard gaskets which are crap and fall apart. :cry: I tried making one a of my frosties box :D for Mallory but HTC failed that.:sad: so bought some of these. Which I havent tested yet getting mega hot..
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370274142373&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
Andrew Cooke
08-06-2011, 13:06
I'm yet to order mine but demon do some gates and they look ok, a good copy of tail. Also obx do some cheap ones.. Scoff and you know my feelings they work!! Its only a valve and spring, what can go wrong.. The gates am talking about aint as cheap as xs etc or any of that stuff..
I can check the 'make', but a mate of mine had one stick open. No boost on a record run ruined his year... He's now on Tial stuff.
Rob, yes, only a valve and a seat, so they could stick shut ! There's no way I'm risking my engine because I want to save a couple hundered quid on wastegates. And you've spent more money then me on your core engine, so I think you're a fruit loop if you risk using cheap gates :scared:
It's one thing running a gate at a bar, or 1.5 bar. When you're talking 2.5 bar and 930°C EGT's I'd want to know that I had top quality bits looking after my engine.
Andrew Cooke
08-06-2011, 18:08
Rob, yes, only a valve and a seat, so they could stick shut ! There's no way I'm risking my engine because I want to save a couple hundered quid on a wastegates.
have you bypassed your 'overboost switch'?:tuttut:
Rob@Backyardracing
08-06-2011, 18:19
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/demonmotorsportltd/_i.html?_fsub=1730627016 these are the ones i was going to use... For me to buy two tial gates is out of the question.. no way will i fork out for them, if i had too it would wipe any chance of me seeing a track is year.. I fully understand what you guys are saying and yes so far about £5,000 has gone just on this engine and set up and we still not at track, around 6K would prob be the finishing cost.. If i wasnt so close to having it done i would have sacked the idea off along time ago and taken up a new hobbie.. With the engineering background ive got im sure i can fully inspect the gates before use, even modifi if i need too.. if anyone wants to give me some cash thats cool :)
Logg them gaskest are crap, we had same one with our D motor, lasted two mins, i just made sure flange faces are flat and ran without...
So are the V band style wastegates better then the bolt on ones? sorry about asking question on your thread mate.
Rob@Backyardracing
09-06-2011, 17:48
and as andy says, dont you have a boost cut on the ecu? we sure do :)
and as andy says, dont you have a boost cut on the ecu? we sure do :)
Yes, a choice of a timed overboost or a dead cut. That's a problem though if you plan to run to the limit of your map sensor.
Forget I mentioned wastegates mate.
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/demonmotorsportltd/_i.html?_fsub=1730627016 these are the ones i was going to use... For me to buy two tial gates is out of the question.. no way will i fork out for them, if i had too it would wipe any chance of me seeing a track is year.. I fully understand what you guys are saying and yes so far about £5,000 has gone just on this engine and set up and we still not at track, around 6K would prob be the finishing cost.. If i wasnt so close to having it done i would have sacked the idea off along time ago and taken up a new hobbie.. With the engineering background ive got im sure i can fully inspect the gates before use, even modifi if i need too.. if anyone wants to give me some cash thats cool :)
Logg them gaskest are crap, we had same one with our D motor, lasted two mins, i just made sure flange faces are flat and ran without...
is that all you spent pal ive spent that on mine this year son :D quality counts :cooter:
Rob@Backyardracing
09-06-2011, 23:13
is that all you spent pal ive spent that on mine this year son :D quality counts :cooter:
Well yeah nealy 5k is what has gone on it this year alone, could argue that the car stands around 12k.. :crap: I like to race on a budget not at costs...:)
Anyway back to Scoffs program... no more spams... :D
Spent a bit more time on the tune today. Wastegate is creeping to 2 bar, guess I over estimated what a 50mm gate could do. I've run out of injector already, which I didn't expect, so new injector dynamics's on their way. Hoping they get here sharpish so I can finish the map.
It feels very scary now in 4th gear on the road with the LSD fitted. It sort of pulls you about at unmentionable speeds. I get way too scared at 7000rpm, just when it's comming to life. I think it should pull straight as a die with the slicks though. Just have to suck it and see :)
rs250nut
15-06-2011, 22:48
Spent a bit more time on the tune today. Wastegate is creeping to 2 bar, guess I over estimated what a 50mm gate could do. I've run out of injector already, which I didn't expect, so new injector dynamics's on their way. Hoping they get here sharpish so I can finish the map.
It feels very scary now in 4th gear on the road with the LSD fitted. It sort of pulls you about at unmentionable speeds. I get way too scared at 7000rpm, just when it's comming to life. I think it should pull straight as a die with the slicks though. Just have to suck it and see :)
What size injectors are you on at the moment? 1200CC? I.D make some nice stuff their 1600-2000cc are supposed to be the bollocks, I saw a video of a stock Integra type r with a set of these fitted and it idled like stock, amazing.
Andrew Cooke
15-06-2011, 23:30
when are you running? I need to make the effort...
Nah jon, I wish they were that big, they're only 870's now :)
when are you running? I need to make the effort...
Hopefully July 1st, RTOC Day Andy. Its going to depend on these injectors arriving and me having the time to get it done and dusted :crap:
What size injectors are you on at the moment? 1200CC? I.D make some nice stuff their 1600-2000cc are supposed to be the bollocks, I saw a video of a stock Integra type r with a set of these fitted and it idled like stock, amazing.
Ah, well I've seen that video too and while I know that the new ID's are much more stable at low duty the video doesn't show you the air:fuel he's at, so for all we know he might be idling mid 11's - not such a low duty cycle anymore :D
rs250nut
16-06-2011, 00:26
Nah jon, I wish they were that big, they're only 870's now :)
Wow they must be working their tits off, super high fuel pressure?
Wow they must be working their tits off, super high fuel pressure?
Sort of Jon, they were at about 95% last year @ 3 bar rail. I don't mind running them to the limit, it's only a drag car, the injectors are only flat out for a matter of seconds so they're never going to get hot.
I've maxed them out good and propper now. Early data says the engine is breathing between 5 and 10% better than before above 7000rpm. The problem is that fuel pressure increases never make as much difference as you might think. I'm at 3.3 bar this year and upping that to 4 bar say won't give me much more than +5%, so it was time to go bigger. I should have known really, I just havn't been putting much thought or effort in of late.
Rob@Backyardracing
17-06-2011, 17:49
which ID.s have you opted for then?
i forget, are you running twin fuel pumps, or single?
look like you got your sums right on the new manifolds anyway :)
Tidgy little ID1000 Rob. They are still too small really but they'll get me through the year. 1600 would have been the way to go if they had of been available. Hopefully they'll be available next year when I plan to upgrade the turbo too. I don't have the time or spare money to be worrying about a new turbo this year :crap: I'll just push the GT35r to the limit this year instead.
I also don't think I could get away with any more lag than I have now, so again it's a reason not to upgrade yet. The gearbox is still notchy and slow - I'll need a quick spool to make up for the slow gear changes I think.
Next year, when I have more free time (or atleast that is the plan!) I will think of ways to speed the synchro's up and allow flat shift, so then I can go 67mm on the turbo and I won't have to worry about lag :)
The engine's out again :rolleyes: Turns out I've killed the diff when I broke another drive shaft on sunday. When the shaft broke the car lurched to the right, so something must have gone crunch at that point. It's locked both wheels together, its nearly impossible to turn a corner, and lots of play in the diff too which wasn't there before. I'll strip it tomorrow, and I'm hoping I can buy spare gears or whatever I need from quaife.
On top of that I have to buy and install a 2nd wastegate because the single 50mm isn't even close to big enough. I couldn't control boost in 1st and 2nd gear and it was more of a problem than I'd expected.
sounds like you need some stronger shafts then mate, did you compare the VAG shaft with the 16v hub?
TNT ANDY
10-07-2011, 10:09
The engine's out again :rolleyes: Turns out I've killed the diff when I broke another drive shaft on sunday. When the shaft broke the car lurched to the right, so something must have gone crunch at that point. It's locked both wheels together, its nearly impossible to turn a corner, and lots of play in the diff too which wasn't there before. I'll strip it tomorrow, and I'm hoping I can buy spare gears or whatever I need from quaife.
On top of that I have to buy and install a 2nd wastegate because the single 50mm isn't even close to big enough. I couldn't control boost in 1st and 2nd gear and it was more of a problem than I'd expected.
Gutted for you Chris! If this were me, I'd be in a dark pissed off place. But knowing you......:smokin:
Just the next stage of development.
keeps me entertained andy. and skint :laugh:
Looks like it'll be out of action for a while. I can't even get in to the gearbox to examine the diff because one of the driveshaft flanges has welded itself into the diff so I can't split the casing. I tried everything to remove it, no chance, so flange and diff are probably write off and I'll have to find a machine shop to mill the remaining portion of shaft out of the gearbox before I can think about fitting a new one. :rolleyes:
:eek:
You don't do things by halves do you ?
:eek:
You don't do things by halves do you ?
It never rains but it pours ! What started as a simple driveshaft swap turns in to a nightmare.
Just been over to Yorkshire with the gearbox, Glenn is friendly with a company that can machine hardened steel, fingers crossed they can mill/cut the duff bits out. There's a bit too much work in that gearbox to go starting again. This week I'm faced with having to buy a new diff (£700 or there about) and another wastegate (£400) plus the other odds and ends. In times like this you wonder if it's all worthwhile ? :sad2:
Rob@Backyardracing
11-07-2011, 07:32
There all becoming expensive hobbies this drag racing lark... I dont no what it is but we just end up cracking on and doing it.. I dont dare tell anyone what ive spent on our car, my life at the moment revolves around the car, i bring my wage home see what i can buy and what im left with i live off. Im on beans on toast and pasta every day.. We might aswell be crack heads.. I dont know how id feel if iwe stuffed the motor up in first couple of outings.. I think id defo call it day and cut my loss.. I dont mind breaking shafts or boxs as ive not invested in that area yet and i know its going to happen..
Im sure you will crack on with it mate in time, if you need a machine shop pop by us, im sure we can help you out...
It never rains but it pours ! What started as a simple driveshaft swap turns in to a nightmare.
Just been over to Yorkshire with the gearbox, Glenn is friendly with a company that can machine hardened steel, fingers crossed they can mill/cut the duff bits out. There's a bit too much work in that gearbox to go starting again. This week I'm faced with having to buy a new diff (£700 or there about) and another wastegate (£400) plus the other odds and ends. In times like this you wonder if it's all worthwhile ? :sad2:
It's your hobbie and you enjoy it ,like rob said I've lost count how much I've spent on my five ,but I've met some good friends over the years after spending loads on my friend ,all hobbies are expensive.
See you soon mate hope you sort it ,if you need anything machining or ally give us a shout.
Yeah thats it, for some reason you just have to crack on. It's just the expense of trying to make it competative that's starting to way on me. I keep thinking of all the other luxuries I could have in life, but then I remember I'd be bored stiff :cool:
I know how you feel! Im not running the Mini again this year. Broke the gearbox at the pod day repaired it and then broke it again Sunday! It's very disheartening!
rs250nut
11-07-2011, 20:30
There all becoming expensive hobbies this drag racing lark... I dont no what it is but we just end up cracking on and doing it.. I dont dare tell anyone what ive spent on our car, my life at the moment revolves around the car, i bring my wage home see what i can buy and what im left with i live off. Im on beans on toast and pasta every day.. We might aswell be crack heads.. I dont know how id feel if iwe stuffed the motor up in first couple of outings.. I think id defo call it day and cut my loss.. I dont mind breaking shafts or boxs as ive not invested in that area yet and i know its going to happen..
Im sure you will crack on with it mate in time, if you need a machine shop pop by us, im sure we can help you out...
Nail on the head mate, that just decribed me to a tee only I have a wedding to pay for aswell.
I know how you feel! Im not running the Mini again this year. Broke the gearbox at the pod day repaired it and then broke it again Sunday! It's very disheartening!
Thats bad luck mate. Its times like that you either have to spend some strong money on fancy gears and hope that they never break or you give up pushing the boundaries. Neither idea seems all that apealing probably. So then, there's the "unmentionable" option of putting a modern powerplant and gearbox in :cartman: But I know you won't want to do that.
Tony Walker
11-07-2011, 22:06
My reasoning usually is... i dont drink, i dont smoke, so this is my bad habit :D
You guys should also take in to account how much you've gained/learned from your car.
I became a mechanic because of my car and its given me the life i have now, for this reason my car could never break enough for me to get rid of it. I suppose it is difficult to justify funding an unknown when pushing boundaries tho. Were all glad you do :D
It's getting put into the garage for a bit then it will be back, when Ive looked at other options for the box. There are quite a few different gearsets to choose from but nothing really specific :)
Im not really into the modern engine in a Mini. it wouldn't be the same without an A series and a stupid gearbox design :)
TNT ANDY
12-07-2011, 06:32
It's getting put into the garage for a bit then it will be back, when Ive looked at other options for the box. There are quite a few different gearsets to choose from but nothing really specific :)
Im not really into the modern engine in a Mini. it wouldn't be the same without an A series and a stupid gearbox design :)
Hi Ron - Nice min btw - have you considered taking your broken bits to an engineer to see if they can make the bit that has broken stronger? And I assume that you are a 1/4 mile nut. The gear set you put in as you where saying is good to up to about 200bhp??? unless you're chasing a 1/4 mile time I would have thought 150-180 would be mental in your mini?
Well after the engineering shop admitted defeat on the seized stub axle in the gearbox this week, glenn picked it up (it's a place local to him) and he managed to carefully cut the dead shaft out with some thin cutting discs, winner. Not bad for a painter ;)
I stripped it today, diff innards are actually OK but the stub axle has welded itself in to the diff casing. Poor design and not enough lube at that point. I guess it over-spun and welded when the shaft on the other side failed. Even with it stripped and on the bench with heat on it I couldn't beat the shaft out. It's propper mullered :crap: Maybe the diff will work again in the future if I find a way of drilling the naff bit out.
I got bored of trying to rescue it so I've built it up with a standard diff for now and got it back in the car thisevening.
Well after the engineering shop admitted defeat on the seized stub axle in the gearbox this week, glenn picked it up (it's a place local to him) and he managed to carefully cut the dead shaft out with some thin cutting discs, winner. Not bad for a painter ;)
I stripped it today, diff innards are actually OK but the stub axle has welded itself in to the diff casing. Poor design and not enough lube at that point. I guess it over-spun and welded when the shaft on the other side failed. Even with it stripped and on the bench with heat on it I couldn't beat the shaft out. It's propper mullered :crap: Maybe the diff will work again in the future if I find a way of drilling the naff bit out.
I got bored of trying to rescue it so I've built it up with a standard diff for now and got it back in the car thisevening.
That's bad news about the diff casing but good news you are going to be back up and running:agree: Saw your car @ pod going up the strip feck me was like an caged animal being released awesome sound and very strange seeing a 5 doing what yours was doing keep up the top work always:agree:.
Thanks james :) It shouldn't sound as unweildy as it did, it should have had a lot more control in the early gears. When it's all working right it is supposed to look effortless :)
Well done on WR 674bhp mate
TNT ANDY
23-07-2011, 19:40
Well done on WR 674bhp mate
If that's right, game on Scoff. Game on.
Now.
Harness that power.
Alastair
23-07-2011, 21:43
Well done on WR 674bhp mate
Chris, Awesome numbers mate! Congratulations!
A bit of an update.
In the last month I've added a 2nd wastegate since the single one was insufficient. Minimum boost was 2 bar, which as fun as it sounds didn't allow much in the way of traction in 1st and 2nd gear. Now it creeps only a couple of psi which is acceptable. Even preferable since it means in lower gears the boost will creep naturally as speed increases.
It's a bit of a rough-arse installation, there really wasn't anywhere else for it to go.
http://www.efi-parts.co.uk/i/2x50mm_gates.JPG
Finally the new injectors arrived, 2000cc injector dynamics. Don't ask what they cost, I'm trying to forget it. I could have bought a reasonable condition GT turbo for the same money. I tell myself it's a "one time expenditure" :rolleyes:
http://www.efi-parts.co.uk/i/id2000.JPG
"It's a bit of a rough-arse installation"
Yeah Chris, it really looks s**t. :laugh:
"It's a bit of a rough-arse installation"
Yeah Chris, it really looks s**t. :laugh:
Hey trev, compared with some of the guys I raced with this year, it's rough arse !! I like to think of it as functional.
Injectors look good, I hope they do what you need, are you planning to run again this year mate?
Sat night special maybe ? I think a few of us are going...
Also does that mean you'll be putting more boost through it now :eek:
Yes steve, I've got a few outings planned, I want to try and get the best out of this setup before I think about changing anything.
Rob@Backyardracing
24-08-2011, 17:41
very nice :)
lets see if they live upto the hype ;)
get the thing back out before the goal posts move even further
very nice :)
lets see if they live upto the hype ;)
get the thing back out before the goal posts move even further
You watch, I'll go slower !!
I got the injectors in and running tonight, they took a bit of fettling to fit right, 4 hours of fettling to be exact :rolleyes: Seem to run and idle OK so far.
Matt Cole
24-08-2011, 21:34
Scoff, i guess on that manifold you wont be going twin scroll?
Scoff, i guess on that manifold you wont be going twin scroll?
I have the option because of the way I ordered the collector. The next turbo will most likely be twin scroll.
rs250nut
24-08-2011, 23:51
Nice work:agree: Whats the idle like? Smooth
Andrew Cooke
25-08-2011, 08:20
I like the way each one of your injectors matches the flow of my entire fuel system :D
"It's a bit of a rough-arse installation"
Yeah Chris, it really looks s**t. :laugh:
:laugh:
Car looks great chris and god they are big injectors :eek:
Nice work:agree: Whats the idle like? Smooth
It was late in the garage jon, I just chucked some numbers at the ECU to get it running and idle was no worse than the old 870cc's @ 4bar but a/f's were probably a bit rich. I'll see how they go today, back on the dyno on saturday to see if it'll deal with more boost.
I like the way each one of your injectors matches the flow of my entire fuel system :D
I think I'll be doing well to use half of them, Specky was at 55% for his 9.86 @ 148 (9.86@148)
Love the wastegate pantry :cool:
BluntyR5GTT
25-08-2011, 12:13
Love it chris hey sound like they will make an improvement on an already insane car. Are you up at wgt this sat?
Love it chris hey sound like they will make an improvement on an already insane car. Are you up at wgt this sat?
Yes andy, 11am.
I've just been and done a base map. They're the trickiest injectors I've had to tune yet. Yes, they idle quite well, oddly its the part throttle that's not as nice to tune. Anything much leaner than 12:1 makes for a stuttery response. I tried different injector currents and even forcing them to peak and hold but nothing improved their response. It's probably more likely to be spray pattern and injector angle related. I don't care, it won't bother WOT.
BluntyR5GTT
25-08-2011, 15:42
Yes andy, 11am.
I've just been and done a base map. They're the trickiest injectors I've had to tune yet. Yes, they idle quite well, oddly its the part throttle that's not as nice to tune. Anything much leaner than 12:1 makes for a stuttery response. I tried different injector currents and even forcing them to peak and hold but nothing improved their response. It's probably more likely to be spray pattern and injector angle related. I don't care, it won't bother WOT.
bugger i was hoping be up there this sat as well but working all weekend :( (think of the money) :eek:
im sure you will get it bang on matey they sound like a real good set that will hopefully contribute to you getting into the 9s this year :agree:
dave j gtt
26-08-2011, 12:03
Nice work mate, hope you have some good luck when you get out on the 1/4 @ pod. All the effort and dedication i hope "and fingers crossed" will prove to have been worth while.
New injectors in and working OK. I spent the morning on the dyno and mapped to a moderate boost. Then it was time to take the restrictive exhaust off to set the boost properly. The n/s outer CV exploded on the following run which put an end to the day. Shame, I wanted to record the difference between exhaust on and exhaust off. I've not stripped the CV completely yet but it looks like the bit in the middle that carries the 3 bearings gave way. Thats 4 shafts/cv's in 2 months, so I need a better fix.
It used about 55% of those injectors @ 6000rpm already, but with the exhaust on we couldn't carry the boost to the red line. I think I'll need to set it up the rest of the way on the track.
Right now I'll just have to put another renault CV on so I can finish the year then look at ways of fitting the audi outers too, maybe the hubs too if need be.
Adey aka Ewok
27-08-2011, 15:46
Do you think you will have another big hike in power with this new setup? Are you going for a new exhaust too if its causing you problems?
Do you think you will have another big hike in power with this new setup? Are you going for a new exhaust too if its causing you problems?
No probably not a big hike, I just need to push another few mph of trap out of it.
The exhaust is a full 3" with single 3" straight through sillencer, I don't know what else I could fit under the car to make it any better flowing! 3.5" maybe, but it would hang much too low I think. Better just to keep running the open pipe at the track.
Looking the business as usual sir! I'm not surprised that you are breaking the outer cv I broke one on my GT last month. More due to old age than power, I was surprised at what little holds them together!
Looking the business as usual sir! I'm not surprised that you are breaking the outer cv I broke one on my GT last month. More due to old age than power, I was surprised at what little holds them together!
Yeah, they're a bit feable compared to a big audi one or something.
I had already welded the spline up and welded tube over the narrow part of the cv, which is where they were normally breaking. this time it's just the guts inside that shattered. Just for the fun of it I looked at the plot to see when it broke. It got to 1400 lb/ft @ the hubs before the cv died, which was about 450lb at the flywheel, long before peak torque, so I think the cv might have started to break up on the run before.
Rob@Backyardracing
27-08-2011, 16:08
This is why we run 4" pipe, and as short as poss.
Bummer about the CV mate :(
Be interesting to see your take on solving this problem,
It's common problem in the Honda world too, I read summer about using porshe 108mm cv's, there the biggest standard fit cv's apparently if that's any help
I stripped the broken cv last night. It's actually sheered the 3 legged bearing carrier out of the cup. Not a lot I can do to strengthen that. I wonder if there are some bigger renault CV's that will slip in to the drive flanges without modification.
This is why we run 4" pipe, and as short as poss.
Bummer about the CV mate :(
Be interesting to see your take on solving this problem,
It's common problem in the Honda world too, I read summer about using porshe 108mm cv's, there the biggest standard fit cv's apparently if that's any help
If you think on rob, can you measure the od of the outer spline for me the next time you see one :)
Andrew Cooke
29-08-2011, 12:55
I stripped the broken cv last night. It's actually sheered the 3 legged bearing carrier out of the cup. Not a lot I can do to strengthen that. I wonder if there are some bigger renault CV's that will slip in to the drive flanges without modification.
I don't think so, the bigger stuff uses the bigger driveshaft splines and hubs.
Thats what I feared, and there's little or no room for expansion in the R5 flanges. I might look at fitting the bigger audi CV's if I can find 4 stud VW hubs/bearings/flanges. I need to speak to some VW nuts to see what fits what :)
Which hubs and CV's did you switch up to andy ? And would you say the CV's were any stronger ?
Andrew Cooke
29-08-2011, 13:27
Which hubs and CV's did you switch up to andy ? And would you say the CV's were any stronger ?
when :)
Initially I swapped to valver hubs for the thicker flanges (the ones I split open) but with standard CVs
I now have early 4 stud 2.2TD Laguna hubs and they are massive, twice the weight of GTT ones.
On the Twingo I use modified 172 hubs, they would probably be my suggestion as they are more readily available and tougher than GTT. They will need modifying (see my twingo thread) and use bigger driveshaft splines. The standard 172 shafts are solid.
I ment the laguna hubs you have. I already run the 16v hubs and bearings. It's the bigger CV I need.
Did the laguna use bigger CV's and splines ?
I guess the 172 uses the same CV and spline as the GTT ?
I can see that laguna DCI uses 4 stud too. I've found some hubs, brakes, discs, shafts and suspension going for cheap. Maybe that's worth a look at.
Andrew Cooke
29-08-2011, 14:12
I ment the laguna hubs you have. I already run the 16v hubs and bearings. It's the bigger CV I need.
Did the laguna use bigger CV's and splines ?
I guess the 172 uses the same CV and spline as the GTT ?
they are both bigger than GTT I'm using SADEV driveshafts with the laguna stuff.
I can't recall whether all Lagunas were created equal mine have 16mm damper bolts (compared to 14mm 172 and 12mm GTT)
cvs are from standard twingo, 172 and sadev. Not sure why I didn't grab a GTT one...
compare the valver upright with the Laguna
Another thought, I'm not sure what you'd do about a caliper to fit under 13s, you might be able to make a bracket to hold a GTT one?
Yes, calipers, I figured I'd get the GT ones on somehow.
But OK, 172 and Laguna splines look the same then, would you agree they are ?
So maybe I could fit 172 hubs and then decide weather laguna or 172 CV's are best. That is, as long as there is clearance in behind the 172 hub for a bigger CV.
Andrew Cooke
29-08-2011, 15:44
I just tried the 172 cv in the laguna hub and it looked OK
michael tierney
01-09-2011, 20:59
chris!are the purple parts on the injectors just extensions?
scoff, might be talking to bailey morris about a new shaft setup http://www.baileymorris.co.uk/
They did a few custom driveshafts for a 1.8t mk2 golf for a guy at work and basically said if he could break them they'll fix them for free :smokin:
Hi Michael, yes extensions, the injectors are bosch EV14 compacts. The spacers bring them up to Bosch EV1 dimensions.
Fordy, thankyou, I was looking for places that might make something custom. I need to get some bigger hubs in there first and maybe increase the front track while I'm at it to save using the spacers I run now and to allow a longer driveshaft. Right now I'm convinced the failures on that side are because the shaft is so short - it cannot twist.
The last shaft I made had parrallel lines pressed into it's length. Over the 2" bit of "renault" shaft I had twisted it about 20 degrees after only a few runs!
This weekend I'm at pod to make some adjustments. I'll leave launch control until the very end of the day. I think the shock loading is what's causing the problems. I never had these problems before launch control.
michael tierney
02-09-2011, 14:41
"Hi Michael, yes extensions, the injectors are bosch EV14 compacts. The spacers bring them up to Bosch EV1 dimensions..............
where and how much....plus...small injectors...obviously good capacity for the c1j.....any prices?
"Hi Michael, yes extensions, the injectors are bosch EV14 compacts. The spacers bring them up to Bosch EV1 dimensions..............
where and how much....plus...small injectors...obviously good capacity for the c1j.....any prices?
Those extensions came with my injectors from injector dynamics in the USA. I don't know if they're available seperately, but they can't be hard to make !
Small injectors for the C1J - that depends on what the power goal is. 300cc will do for a 210hp or so limit. Standard Volvo B18ft injectors (there must be loads of those kicking about) should be good for 150hp or so.
michael tierney
02-09-2011, 23:31
" but they can't be hard to make ....
very true,i might have to have a go!
what i mean is the actual solenoid part of the inj. from ur pic seems to have got very small(bit like the new ones in a golf)but the capacity is large!?
Hi Michael
I might have misunderstood sorry. I don't have a C1J, so I thought you were asking about injectors for a C1J. These things flow 2200cc/min @ 3 bar. Aparantly they are carefully modified 550cc Bosch injectors.
But, there are lots of flow ratings in that physical package. Look at pico injectors, denso, bosch ev14.
I guess that since I bothered to start this thread I should try to keep it up to date !
Broke lots of drive shafts in the last couple of months. Never in the same way, I must have broken every part of the shaft and outer CV now. Something has to change.
As a result of some advice from Andy Cooke and one or 2 others I decided to buy some Clio 172 hubs and driveshafts. Today I thought I'd look at them to see how much work is involved in fitting them.
Thankfully it looks like an easy job. GTT disks fit right on. GTT lower balljoint and track rod ends fit right in. Even the upper 2 damper bolts have the same 54mm pitch and angle as the GTT, only it's 5mm wider, so milling 2.5mm off each side should allow me to bolt them right up !
The hub swap will give the front end 5mm more track per side compared with GTT/Clio 16v hubs.
Only the caliper mounting bolt pitch is wildly different. But, the GTT carrier fits neatly between the wider spaced 172 bolt holes in such a way that it should be possible to form a bracket from a single section of flat bar !
I want to get rid of the 20mm hubcentric spacers I run currently so I'll be looking at ways of moving the hubs out a further 15mm per side. Lower balljoint is easy stuff, I'm not yet sure how I'll correct the camber. The extra track means that I can use a 20mm longer driveshaft on the N/S, which is a big improvement compared to it's ridiculously short length at the moment (There is currently only a 20mm section of shaft between the inner and outer CV boots on the N/S !!)
The 172's CV's look a load better too and does away with the poxy 3 finger setup that is forever breaking in the GTT ones.
Hoping to get it all done later this week and over the weekend.
Andrew Cooke
05-10-2011, 08:11
have you decided on wishbones? R11 are the easy choice, no idea how much wider they are, maybe 5-10mm? R19/Williams are wider, but will move the wheel forwards for more camber, that may, or may not be a good thing for you. 172 are similar to Williams, but a bit wider again. You might want to consider plating over group a style to stiffen them up, although your traction bars may be enough. Have you seen the wishbone inner bearing kits? Should I ever get around to putting my car back together I may well go that route.
Just a thought, since you have the bigger hubs, and may need to adjust the damper mount for the increased track, you could get new ears welded onto the bottom of your dampers to keep the extra strength and sort the camber in one.
Before you do anything with the hubs check the taper in the bottom for any signs of rust/wear, so many are knackered and they just bite you in the bum :(
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