Engine build question - help needed

[MikeA]

Hi guys,

Ok...Im trying to build up a C1J block and have come across my first hurdles. Ive stripped it all down and found a few issues that I could do with some advice on.

First off the crank, the main bearings were quite a mess I think and whatever contamination was in there has obviously damaged the crank as well. So my three obvious options are can I get the crank re-profiled and then use some form of over sized bearings? Should I just buy a good condition crank from a campus or so? Or is the damage not as bad as I think (please see pic below).

http://www.upupdesign.com/crank_damage.jpg

Secondly there is a similar problem with the cam journal. Again what ever happened before I got the block as resulted in a little step-down profile so its not a flat surface. So...is the block a write-off? Or has anybody tried getting the journal re-profiled and using a Gordini cam bearing? Is that possible? Can I still get the Gordini bearing or is it not worth the hassle...should I just buy a new block? See pic below for damage.

http://www.upupdesign.com/cam_damage.jpg

Thanks in advance guys...and girls. :agree:

Mike

[Ashy]

I would just get a known good block and crank, there must be loads kicking around for cheaper than a re-grind!

[Adam 005]

I would just get a known good block and crank, there must be loads kicking around for cheaper than a re-grind!

not many good blocks left with the youngest being 20 years old now:(

[Sparkie]

you would need a turbo 2 cam bearing and line bore the journals.
the gordini cam bearing sits at the opposite end and makes the journal alot smaller.-

[Woznaldo]

Am I missing something or shouldn't the groove be in the cam journal for an oil way?

Or have I not spotted something obvious?

I'd say the crank is probably scrap but that would depend on the depth of the damage and any ovality issues.

[Alex]

The crank certainly needs a regrind. The cam journal should have a groove in it but it looks to be scored as well? By the look of it it might be easier/cheaper to get a second hand crank and block..... :)

[Sparkie]

the cam has the grooves, not the block. :)

[MikeA]

you would need a turbo 2 cam bearing and line bore the journals.
the gordini cam bearing sits at the opposite end and makes the journal alot smaller.-


Thanks!

So are the Turbo 2 bearings available or am I dreaming? :sad:

So basically, it wouldnt be worth it then is that what your saying - should I just be looking for a new block then?

Do you think the damage is bad enough to warrant getting a new bock?

And finally...have you got a good condition block!? :wasntme:

[MikeA]

The crank certainly needs a regrind. The cam journal should have a groove in it but it looks to be scored as well? By the look of it it might be easier/cheaper to get a second hand crank and block..... :)


But if I regrind the crank wouldnt I need some sort of over-sized shell bearings?

My understanding was as Sparkie said, I thought the cam had the groove and not the block journal was smooth- also the picture doesnt really show it but the surface actually 'steps-down' if you know what I mean?

[modfather]

i got a spre block in my kitchen cupboard and that has that grove in it

[MikeA]

i got a spre block in my kitchen cupboard and that has that grove in it


In the kitchen cupboard?! :laugh:

Hrm, even if the groove was meant to be there Im not sure about the step down profile, surely the surface should be flat other than groove (assuming it should be there).

Anyone else know if the groove should be there? Couple of yes's and no's. Confused :scratch:

[robbie506]

when my bottom end went when it dumoed all the oil thoses groves were there as other people said i thought it was there to let oil flow but they should not be a step down as far as i know. :scratch:

[TNT Tricky Nicky]

All the blocks I've seen have had a groove. But I would have to agree that they're not meant to be there by all accounts.

You can have the crank reground and there are 3 sizes readily available, standard, bigger and bigger still! The engineer will measure the depth of the scoring then check it against the sizes available and take it down to fit the shell.

[Sparkie]

the turbo 2 cam bearings you get from mecaparts do not have any grooves in. you even have to drill you own oil way through them!

[MikeA]

Ok...so with more thought (and help from Miller) I have realised I miss-represented this problem.

In regards to the cam journal - so the channel IS meant to be there to feed the oil around BUT it was the actual surface damage to the journal that I should be concerned about.

So this still leaves me interested in any options for fixing it although I do have my eye on another block at the moment just in case.

Sparkie - thanks for the help first off. Secondly, for argument sake, if i was to get the Turbo 2 bearing thats available are you saying I would have to get the oil channel milled out and drill out the oil feed hole?! Have you done it before? Sounds tricky...for me anyway. :dearme:

Thanks for the help guys.

[SCHWARTZ]

probs be cheaper and a lot less hassle to just buy a new block and cam matey;)

[Bass J]

Mike i have a spare bottom end if you wanna come have a look at it?! ..ive no idea on the condition as i kno bugger all about engines :laugh::laugh: only reason i have it is due to buying an engine with an overly skimmed head on it :laugh:.

let me know if you wanna come have a look and ill dig it out :D

[Sparkie]

There is not supposed to be a groove in the block. Blocks that appear to have grooves are worn- the grove is usually more prominent on one side of the hole- the direction the cam rotates, dragging the swarf in that direction.

The turbo 2 bearings are a nightmare to press in. You then need a long drill, fit the bearings and then drill out the lead plugs next to the holes where you drop the cam followers in. Then drill the bearings. Remove the swarf.
Much easier to get a different block.

[MikeA]

Mike i have a spare bottom end if you wanna come have a look at it?! ..ive no idea on the condition as i kno bugger all about engines :laugh::laugh: only reason i have it is due to buying an engine with an overly skimmed head on it :laugh:.

let me know if you wanna come have a look and ill dig it out :D

Id love to have a look mate...at the block I mean! :laugh: If you get a chance to dig it out let me know...the block I mean again! hahaha Would be very much appreciated. :agree:

[MikeA]

There is not supposed to be a groove in the block. Blocks that appear to have grooves are worn- the grove is usually more prominent on one side of the hole- the direction the cam rotates, dragging the swarf in that direction.

The turbo 2 bearings are a nightmare to press in. You then need a long drill, fit the bearings and then drill out the lead plugs next to the holes where you drop the cam followers in. Then drill the bearings. Remove the swarf.
Much easier to get a different block.

Ok, I just thought with what everyone was saying and the fact the groove is perfectly central to the oil hole that it was too much a coincidence. But Im sure youre right, I will just look for another block I guess. Unless you think the wear is not too bad?! Just dont know if its worth the gamble after the hassle of building it back up.

[Alex]

Ok, I just thought with what everyone was saying and the fact the groove is perfectly central to the oil hole that it was too much a coincidence. But Im sure youre right, I will just look for another block I guess. Unless you think the wear is not too bad?! Just dont know if its worth the gamble after the hassle of building it back up.

I looks like everyone's been building engines with worn blocks :crap: All 3 engines I've done have had that groove I'm pretty sure :sad2:

To be fair my current engine is great, but your block does look a bit far gone (in the pictures at least)

[Sparkie]

if you run your finger nail across the 'groove' does it stick out or is it recessed? ;)

[Alex]

I don't know and I'm not stripping down my engine to find out! :laugh: I do have a bare block in the garage that I'm going to be building up, so I'll make a point to check it out first :agree:

[Bass J]

Id love to have a look mate...at the block I mean! :laugh: If you get a chance to dig it out let me know...the block I mean again! hahaha Would be very much appreciated. :agree:

haha! ..aye i kinda know where it is(in my garage lol) ..if you wish for me to dig it out for you .. i dont mind you coming for a look at it ...the block that is :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[MikeA]

haha! ..aye i kinda know where it is(in my garage lol) ..if you wish for me to dig it out for you .. i dont mind you coming for a look at it ...the block that is :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Thanks mate. Ill get back to you Wednesday about it. Going to hopefully pick up a new block tomorrow...we'll see how it goes.

[Bass J]

No probs ..just let me know :D

[MikeA]

if you run your finger nail across the 'groove' does it stick out or is it recessed? ;)

If you're asking me, its recessed. Im picking up a new engine tomorrow though, hopefully this one will be in better condition. :scared: