Is there a small twin scroll turbo that would suit a C1J?

[Woznaldo]

As per the title, and more for interests sake, is there a suitable twin scroll turbo that would work well with a C1J with say a 285 cam or similar?

The most obvious problem is the fact that a custom exhaust manifold would be required and therefore the advantages are probably not going to be worth the expense but, humour me if you will.

[MFaulks]

I think there are some small twin scroll IHI units. Have a look on their website, but I'm sure others on here will come up with alternative units.

[5teve L]

IIRC the manifold has to be made in a certain way or the twin scroll becomes pointless. All to do with pulses I think, I did do a bit of reading about all different turbo's a while back when I was looking into possiblities for the S3.
Not sure about smaller units as I was looking at the Evo 5 TDo5 unit, although the Evo 3 units may be smaller. IHI are rollerbearing IIRC ?

[Matt Cole]

Yeah, when making my manifold, utilising the twin scroll srt up was a bit of a pig. You need to split the runners and then make a suitable flange.

[Woznaldo]

Thanks for the feedback guys. The reason for my renewed interest was spurred on after reading an article on the replacement BMW 335i. The outgoing model utilised a twin turbo setup but the replacement has gone for a twin scroll unit. Peak power and torque are said to be unchanged but, big gains in response and drivability are the reason for the switch.

This got me wondering (day dreaming) if it might be worth a crack. I've got a VNT sat on a shelf in the garage but, even that will need a bit of work to get it all hooked up, not to mention the possible addition of an external waste gate to protect the engine (liners) from boost spiking!

I was thinking it might be worth a go if I could get a acceptable size twin scroll and have a play with some exhaust tubing? I'm currently learning the basics on AutoCAD and would mind putting to good use if I can master some of the more simple functions!

[5teve L]

Are the Megane 225 twin scroll ? How big are they ??

[Woznaldo]

To further explain the manifold and show a schematic I've attached a could of photos.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa40/woznaldo/twin-scroll-turbo_01.jpg

This photo shows another possible complication, that 2 external waste gates may be required.
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa40/woznaldo/modp-0906-05-o-twin-scroll-manifold.jpg

[Andrew Cooke]

I think a twin scroll would work very well on a 5, it's what I'd be looking at were I in the market.

btw, its cylinders 1+4 and 2+3.

[clee]

hmmm....... twin external gates :coffee:

[SCHWARTZ]

what about a kind of compound turbo charging? would that be power/effort worth wile?:confused::laugh:

[Andrew Cooke]

hmmm....... twin external gates :coffee:

two turbos, two wastegates, you know it makes sense :laugh:

[i l k e r]

Are the Megane 225 twin scroll ? How big are they ??


I had a look at the one that came of my engine today and it looks a good size for the 5.

I can whip the housings off and get some measurements if needs be.

sounds like an interesting idea Woz :agree:

[Woznaldo]

I'm in a position, like you, where getting parts from UK can get expensive and going custom locally can actually save money. I'd need to get a cam to make the most of it.

[Woznaldo]

Does anyone know the specs for the RS Megane 225 turbo?

[i l k e r]

Does anyone know the specs for the RS Megane 225 turbo?


what do you need to know mate?

When I last looked, I couldn't find any usefull info on the web. It's a Mitsubishi TD04 unit.

I can always measure the wheels as said before :agree:

[Andrew Cooke]

you should be able to run more overlap with the twin scroll, so maybe something like

catcam 327
piper 300
catcam 325

in order of braveness...

[Woznaldo]

you should be able to run more overlap with the twin scroll, so maybe something like

catcam 327
piper 300
catcam 325

in order of braveness...

Sounds like a dare Andy and I've got the breaking strain on a wet KitKat!

[allanr5gtt]

what are the pro's and con's with a twin scoll turbo?

[Andrew Cooke]

what are the pro's and con's with a twin scoll turbo?

+ they split the exhaust pulse a bit like a 4:2:1 manifold (or tri Y if you're French)
- more complex manifold

[Woznaldo]

Just to add to what Andy has already mentioned, a twin scroll turbo makes better use of the exhaust pulses which in turn can help turbo spool up quicker and increase the scavenge effect of the exhaust.

The net result should be a more responsive and efficient engine.

The way I read all of the above is, that I can increase the turbo size a bit over the std single scroll turbo and sacrifice very little response and not increase lag. The scavenge effect should also make the car nicer to drive off boost.

I'm not an expert but, that's how I've interpreted the info that I've found.

[DaveMayGTT]

You gonna try this woz? if all thats needed is manifold and turbo it would be quite a reasonable project compared to most on here especially if theres enough interest to get a small group buy of them done after 1 brave person tries it?

[Woznaldo]

You gonna try this woz? if all thats needed is manifold and turbo it would be quite a reasonable project compared to most on here especially if theres enough interest to get a small group buy of them done after 1 brave person tries it?

Like a lot of people in this club, ideas are only halted by finance! However, I'm speaking to few reputable fabricators about the manifold and so far the rough prices have come out at A$600-1000 which isn't too bad but, have to get a new down pipe made up too.

I'll let you know how I get on.

[DaveMayGTT]

Considering thats a 1 off it seems quite reasonable I guess. To me a t2/25 has about the right amount of lag but can only pull out enough power on a nice cold night so if this makes it possible to run a bigger turbo at t2/25 lag levels it would be the most important thing to do to my car. Looking forward to hearing how you get on.

[D4WNO]

Woz, I'm sure you're already aware, since you live in the country that manufactures them, but Powertune are top notch for twin scroll mani's (I assume that's who you have contacted already?).

Adam had one custom built by them earlier this year for his S14, it arrived and I think he creamed his panties a little :laugh:. It's pretty impressive though and all made from steam pipe. They will custom make your flange too (ooooh errr, Adam had a Tial 44mm flange). The best thing is that your carriage costs from them will be minimal, it cost a fortune to get it over here if I remember correctly.

[Woznaldo]

Thanks D4WNO, I hadn't actually tried Powertune but sent them an email shortly after reading your post and they've quoted $1000 plus tax which is the going rate from the better places (on rep).

The best bit is they're only 20 mins round the corner!

[Woznaldo]

With regards to the above quote, Powertune said that the manifold would be made from steam pipe. I am under the impression that steam pipe is actually a better material for manifolds despite not looking as blingy!

Can anyone confirm?

[Woznaldo]

Is this the same as the RS Megane TD04?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VOLVO-S40-V40-TD04L-12T-8-5-Twin-Scroll-Turbocharger-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem563fa2b9aeQQitemZ37043 4816430QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries

Either way, is it suitable? I can't see why it wouldn't do the job, just not too sure about max bhp potential?

[D4WNO]

I did mean steam pipe, not screamer lol :laugh:

I'll speak to Adam tonight so he can give me the techy reason why steam pipe is so much better. All I know is that it is extreeeeeemely strong

[Woznaldo]

I did mean steam pipe, not screamer lol :laugh:

I'll speak to Adam tonight so he can give me the techy reason why steam pipe is so much better. All I know is that it is extreeeeeemely strong

I think it has something to do with thicker walls and better heat retention which adds up to less energy being lost as heat escaping from the manifold walls? Also less prone to cracking as there should be less residual stress than in a bent tube?

[Logg]

Loving this thread fella.

Good on you for wanting to push the GTT forward with the new turbo technology. :agree:

[Matt Cole]

Is this the same as the RS Megane TD04?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VOLVO-S40-V40-TD04L-12T-8-5-Twin-Scroll-Turbocharger-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem563fa2b9aeQQitemZ37043 4816430QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries

Either way, is it suitable? I can't see why it wouldn't do the job, just not too sure about max bhp potential?


Nope.The meg 225 is a 14T wheel. 10t for the laguna gt etc. Different flange also not that it would make a difference.

[Woznaldo]

Nope.The meg 225 is a 14T wheel. 10t for the laguna gt etc. Different flange also not that it would make a difference.

I'm assuming that the 14T, 10T, 8T, 6T etc are a sizing code?

[Big Jim]

Steam pipe = cheap and easy. A hi-spec (316/321) stainless manifold will be just as reliable, offer better heat retention, better flow and be a LOT lighter, just the small matter of being an order of magnitude more expensive in terms of material cost.

[Woznaldo]

Steam pipe = cheap and easy. A hi-spec (316/321) stainless manifold will be just as reliable, offer better heat retention, better flow and be a LOT lighter, just the small matter of being an order of magnitude more expensive in terms of material cost.

Thanks Jim, do you think that a stainless manifold will need some bracing to support the weight of the turbo to prevent cracking with the heat cycling?

I'll get a quote for stainless too.

[Woznaldo]

Just been thinking about turbo size and when using T25/28 the preferred option is to go for 0.49 turbine A/R. Do you think this still applies with a twin scroll or can I get away with 0.63 or 0.64 turbine A/R?

[Big Jim]

a support bracket is always a good idea with a tubular.

[DaveMayGTT]

Is it possible to modify a ktec tubular manifold rather than starting from scratch?

[Woznaldo]

Is it possible to modify a ktec tubular manifold rather than starting from scratch?

It's possible but not without compromise. I'd like to see a profabricators interpretation from a clean sheet so to speak.

[Tony Walker]

Interesting thread, wish i had some input for you. Hope you can keep the idea going, would be nice to see some real life gains.

[Andrew Cooke]

Just been thinking about turbo size and when using T25/28 the preferred option is to go for 0.49 turbine A/R. Do you think this still applies with a twin scroll or can I get away with 0.63 or 0.64 turbine A/R?

I believe you can go bigger, but since you're not comparing apples with apples....

[Woznaldo]

The problem is the lack of information on the net with regards to Twin Scroll specs. I might need to get of my harris and get some face time with a few respected turbo tuning shops.

I also think that availability will probably push towards a larger turbine AR?

[5teve L]

Mitsi evo with a 9.8 hotside should be easy to get hold of, not sure if it would be too big or not though...

[andyrg]

if people could stop bying these turbos please cos i cant get hold of a replacment from any one and if you looms in R5 start using them then it will be imposable :):):)


The 14t is the size mate yes

[Woznaldo]

if people could stop bying these turbos please cos i cant get hold of a replacment from any one and if you looms in R5 start using them then it will be imposable :):):)


The 14t is the size mate yes

:laugh: