National Day 2011 Discussion - What do members Want?

[Alistair Gresty]

Did every other car club on the internet hear about a cheap subsudised trackday at rtoc's expense & roll up for a go?

[The new Bill J]

Did every other car club on the internet hear about a cheap subsudised trackday at rtoc's expense & roll up for a go?

:agree:

That's what I said on the day. It was only a matter of time before word got out - The interweb is a small place. There was that group of MX5's all huddled together on the other the other side of the paddock, and someone said to me on the day that they didn't seem to want to talk, or have anything to do with 'us' :scratch:

[TrixNFlix]

:agree:

and someone said to me on the day that they didn't seem to want to talk, or have anything to do with 'us' :scratch:

this is how rumors start.:p:innocent:

[The new Bill J]

this is how rumors start.:p:innocent:

Exactly - And I'm tucking into my popcorn as we speak :D

[D4WNO]

Lol. The Clio guys were good, I went over and invited them to join in on the big Renault car photo and they all drove over. The MX5 guys....not a single one introduced themselves or anything, bit rude

[JRP]

:laugh:
Exactly - And I'm tucking into my popcorn as we speak :D
bill has popcorn... iam comming round.:laugh:

[The new Bill J]

:laugh:
bill has popcorn... iam comming round.:laugh:

You can try - I'm in Plymouth at the mo :cooter:

[JRP]

You can try - I'm in Plymouth at the mo :cooter:
:laugh: dam... thats the end of that then.

[bod 182]

Did every other car club on the internet hear about a cheap subsudised trackday at rtoc's expense & roll up for a go?
Just keep it to 5GTT next year then should get at least 15 on track:)

[JRP]

Just keep it to 5GTT next year then should get at least 15 on track:)

Naa just renaults would do, or we wouldnt get to see some clio action :)

[TrixNFlix]

Lol. The Clio guys were good, I went over and invited them to join in on the big Renault car photo and they all drove over.
Spoke to whiteley, he was a good chap :agree:

[car.crash]

Did every other car club on the internet hear about a cheap subsudised trackday at rtoc's expense & roll up for a go?

i was thinking the same thing, but im sitting on the fence right now.

[Adam L]

Stick another £20 onto the non member price, at least. The club may have made a measly profit this year but if nobodies are going to turn up they deserve to pay the full price of a good, open pit lane, track day.

That knob jockey in the Spider even tried to blag a passenger ticket and class it as his track pass... **** off, mate.

[car.crash]

i didnt see anyone checking wrist bands, i felt i could have gone the whole day out there for free.
its nice to mix it up a little with differant cars but it hardly seemed like a rtoc meet with the lack of 5's and a packed pit of non members. if the sun was shining i had a feeling they would have had to run sessions as it was very busy and that for me would have killed the entire day.

[Adam L]

I agree, Marc. Ok, I was in a Nissan and the weather serisouly hampered me going out. But there were so many cars out on track, regardless of conditions, it would have had to be divided if it was dry.

In the AGM it was mentioned there were about 115 cars signed on.

Going back to the weather. I bet if there was sun blazing all day that would have gone up. Members knew there were tickets available on the day and simply didn't fork out because it pissed down until 4:30.

[rat1]

i agree change non members £20 more and only let them on track every other hour or something like that . at the end of the day its our national day and not just cheap track day.

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

One of the MX5's is a member of the club, so is that such a problem?

We could charge non members more to go on track but all that will do is encourage them to become members... an extra £25 one of fee and £10 there after is not alot if there is a cheap track day every year.

We could charge extra for non renault's, but then alot of members take non renault's on track so would u be happier with that rule?

Personally I think the day is to cheap, i think it should be £100 all day, £50 half day... to go out on track, which maybe alot but if most members paid that we could simply tell non members to f*ck off..

[bod 182]

Ive been a member for at least seven years and had plenty of 5GTT turbos but i just do trackdays now,and did trackdays in the 5GTT but due to reliabilty i stepped up to a clio cup and for three years no problems on track if its a case of being highlighted on the boards that it should be a 5GTT day only and all other cars should not attend there would be lack of cars on track and a big expense to the club that wouldn,t cover the costs if it was a issue i would pay the extra £20 or more if needed,but at the end of the day some members like myself who have been around a while have non 5GTT and still support and attend events.

[Andrew Cooke]

I think the number of 'track day' types turning up is putting off members from just having a go. I think we need "no overtaking" in the morning to encourage members to do a few laps and turn up to support the day. Screw the track dayers, there are plenty of days for them to play, but if they come, the afternoon is theirs.

So,

AM ticket, no overtaking £30
Day ticket £80

no, you can't just buy an afternoon ticket.

oh, and errr hijack...

[JRP]

I think the number of 'track day' types turning up is putting off members from just having a go. I think we need "no overtaking" in the morning to encourage members to do a few laps and turn up to support the day. Screw the track dayers, there are plenty of days for them to play, but if they come, the afternoon is theirs.

So,

AM ticket, no overtaking £30
Day ticket £80

no, you can't just buy an afternoon ticket.

oh, and errr hijack...


Thats the best idea yet :) hope the commitee suports this idea.. :agree:

I would say make it reanault turbo etc only, but then i can name a list of members with non renaults that have been around since day dot... and some that have helped the club become what it is.

ohhh wouldnt like to be in the commitee having to make decisions at the mo :wasntme::laugh:

[clee]

This one needs a members vote to decide , not committee .

[BigWilly425]

I would suggest members only + Renaults, then you can encourage other Renault clubs to attend to keep the numbers up and satisfy RTOC members who may be driving something else now....

As a "spectator" throughout the day, there were also the guys in the M3's who parked way down the bottom as well as the MX5 "pros" who wern't interested in anything to do with the National Day...

Must admit the current set-up discourages the novice as the more hard core track drivers can be a tad intimidating for the unexperienced...

[clee]

We had some bulk buying this year but I let it slide . Next year we are going to restrict it to one ticket per member for track .
Getting other Renault clubs involved is not as easy as it sounds .I offered 21TOC a good deal but no one was interested ,also RAOC and only one of those turned up .

[Duncan Grier]

This year was the worse level of track etiquette I have seen at RTOC track days and other track days for that matter

I can see how it would def put some people off having a go and not helped by a lot of members going more track focused over the years and also having a lot faster cars

It is a difficult one to know what is best in the future - maybe it is morning members only? But no overtaking does not really work and would be everyone going round at the slowest driver pace

Poss sessions? VX220 ND breaks into ability level and at the break reviews and moves people around in groups if required (quicker cars / better on track than they thought they would be etc) this is to try and keep similar pace / ability to the correct groups and last 1/4 of day is open pit lane

Seemed to work wwell imo but a bigger track than mallory

DG

[Big Steve - Raider]

I have moved all these posts to a new thread as it's turning into a National Day 2011 Discussion. :)

[clee]

No overtaking wouldn't work especially at Mallory . Novice in the morning or even ditch open pit lane and do alternate sessions based on experience .

edit .......Someone at the door ...yeh wot DG said :laugh:

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

I do think that perhaps we can do 20mins stints in for beginner's... say the first 20mins of the hour?? allows them 20 mins of quiet track, clear overtaking rules etc...

Then the next 40 mins is as per normal - abit of respect towards others on track would help...

If you wish to over take you should signal to overtake, and the person to be overtaken should indicate to let the person pass...

Also one ticket per member is a must, cant have a member buying for all his friends etc.

[Big Steve - Raider]

Right then gentlemen, let me just reply to some of your posts:


I think the number of 'track day' types turning up is putting off members from just having a go. I think we need "no overtaking" in the morning to encourage members to do a few laps and turn up to support the day. Screw the track dayers, there are plenty of days for them to play, but if they come, the afternoon is theirs....

I understand what your getting at Andrew, but if I don't for one minute we could enforce a non overtaking rule added to the fact that if we did enforce it the day would feel like every other day on the M25 :(


I would say make it reanault turbo etc only, but then i can name a list of members with non renaults that have been around since day dot... and some that have helped the club become what it is.

Yes that's exactly it, As Bod182 pointed out, he's got a Clio 182 now & Mart's got his Heave Ho, Jaffa's got his M3 and Adam L has... well whatever he has that week :laugh: ;)

I agree that long standing members should be bringing what they want as long as they are still involved in the club. :niceone:


As a "spectator" throughout the day, there were also the guys in the M3's who parked way down the bottom as well as the MX5 "pros" who wern't interested in anything to do with the National Day...

Must admit the current set-up discourages the novice as the more hard core track drivers can be a tad intimidating for the unexperienced...

Yes i think that their were a few minorities that turned up and got a cheapie track day but Clee & I will be enforcing the ticket purchasing procedure a lot tighter next year to stop individual members purchasing umpteen tickets for their friends/family.

I'm not a track driving god in any way shape or form but I didn't think that the day was intimidating at all??


This year was the worse level of track etiquette I have seen at RTOC track days and other track days for that matter

I'm shocked to read you post that mate, especially as you weren't driving out their all day as usual?? I was out their for 80% of the day and saw nothing which gave me concerns?? :confused:

[car.crash]

The last 2 trackdays at mallory seemed fine to me but this year was much busyer due to many other car clubs jumping in with groups and luckily the rain kept the track numbers down. If a paying member wants to drive one of their non Renault cars I think it's fine as it spreads the field a little and stops bunching up on the track but having a fleet of mx5s, m3's etc turning up is just people taking advantage of our cheap track day which IMO is not a proper trackday as most people out there do it as a one off and not intending to hit massive speeds or find the limits of their car. If a member wants a mate to come along and have a go and there are spare tickets then we should sell them to help our costs but letting another club order a batch is a big no for me especially if they don't know anyone from rtoc or have any future interest in our club other than mallory and pod.

[Big Steve - Raider]

I'd just like to add....

2010 was the first time in a long time (maybe ever) that the RTOC ND didn't make a loss which for me is a great thing :agree:

And we did this on a track day which was pi$$ing down with rain! :eek:

If we could sell all the necessary tickets to RTOC members with a Renault Turbo then the world would be a wonderful place, however as I pointed out in my "Shakeup" thread the number of Renault Turbo's which are up to a Trackday are ever reducing so if we don't start to diversify and welcome new cars/members then we will not have the funds to hold future trackdays. :sad2:

If the club members cannot support a track day alone then should we go to the effort and expense of putting one on?? :confused:

That's the question we all need to ask ourselves before we start complaining about a few people who attended ND10 who were obviously not members?

[car.crash]

Exactly how many non members were there steve?

[Big Steve - Raider]

Exactly how many non members were there steve?

That's a good question Marc....?

I'm not sure if Clee has got a tally of tickets sold to Members vs. Non Members but their were a few people purchasing several tickets using their member ID & obviously distributing the tickets to their friends.

So it's a bit of a difficult one to answer. :crap:

[IANMM]

I thought it was a very well planned day...yes your going to get the odd gripe here and there but hey you cant please all the people all the time....

im not into track (at the min) but its all about turning up and supporting the club and fellow members

the weather was a bit of a pain but thats Britain for you :)

I look forward to more Strip days and track days in the future........

i will put my 10p worth in and say it would be nice to try shakespear raceway for a change maybe...?????

[Duncan Grier]

I'm shocked to read you post that mate, especially as you weren't driving out their all day as usual?? I was out their for 80% of the day and saw nothing which gave me concerns?? :confused:

Steve maybe not a fair statement, your right I was not really out this year (as usual - cheeky git :cooter:) and was more of an observation watching and picking up on a few comments made off track rather than experiancing it :coffee:

DG

[Big Steve - Raider]

I was not really out this year

Next year though.... ;););)

[Andrew Cooke]

I understand what your getting at Andrew, but if I don't for one minute we could enforce a non overtaking rule added to the fact that if we did enforce it the day would feel like every other day on the M25 :(


there is nothing to stop you backing off and having a go on some free track, equally there is nothing to stop the guy 'pulling the train' running through the pits. I think you'll also find the track emptier without a few folks doing over 100 laps.

Personally I don't think it's any more disruptive to catch a slower car and have to back off a bit than it is to have to back off to let a faster car past.

And of you really don't like it have yourself some coffee and bacon sarnies and wait until the afternoon.

I don't like the idea of 20 mins of this, 20 mins of that, nobody will have any idea what's going on.

You might find that after a morning of diving with no overtaking the virgins will sign up for the afternoon.

[Duncan Grier]

You got it Steve - with trailer and track car. Stopping for fuel only!!!!

Hope the weather is better not sure how the new creation would cope in those conditions but guess I will just have to stop my fear or river flowing across the track conditions lol

I vote Spa for next years ND and happy to pay a bit extra for the track time :D

[clee]

We sold 77 track tickets online and I guesstimate 15/20 odd ended up on non-member's wrists .

[Big Steve - Raider]

You might find that after a morning of diving with no overtaking the virgins will sign up for the afternoon.

Depending upon the type of diving their may not be any virgins left!? :laugh::wasntme:

I agree with your comments though Andrew. I think next year I will try to include some Track Novice stickers with the tickets so those of us who feel a bit unsure on track can make it known and everyone should back off of those displaying the stickers!

[Andrew Cooke]

I think next year I will try to include some Track Novice stickers with the tickets so those of us who feel a bit unsure on track can make it known and everyone should back off of those displaying the stickers!

and you think a 'no overtaking' rule couldn't be enforced :crap:

[Big Steve - Raider]

and you think a 'no overtaking' rule couldn't be enforced :crap:

No, not a no overtaking rule, but everyone should give those with the novice stickers in their back windows some more room?

[Andrew Cooke]

No, not a no overtaking rule, but everyone should give those with the novice stickers in their back windows some more room?

exactly, and that's enforced how? Surely that's just normal track etiquette, and shouldn't require a sticker, it's a club day not a race meet.

We have a club of ~1000 members, 77 bought track tickets, of those probably 10% joined because of the track day. So only 7% of the membership are interested in driving on track as it stands. You have to ask why over 900 members didn't want to turn up and drive on track.

They seem quite keen to join the convoy at Silverstone. How many club cars that would never be used on track do that?

[clee]

Perhaps then we shift the National day back to Pod and Mallory becomes a track event ?
I can see far more members willing to do a couple of strip blasts :coffee:
146 tickets sold for track and entry ,don't know how many sold on the gate ?

[Spooky]

I'm with Andy on the split session idea.

Maybe we could do an 1 hr of novices only track time, the next hour could be people who are more experienced etc.

That way people will know who and what will be on track. It'll improve awareness and people will enjoy being on track instead of checking their mirrors to see what is trying to overtake twice the speed they are!

You could clearly see the division of people who wanted to go on track and see what their car was like and capable of against the people who do track days regularly and know where the lines are, where to brake etc

Mallory Park looked like a free for all on track and thats not exactly confidence inspiring :crap:

[Mart]

I mentioned this in the 'Thank you' thread, but to say again, I thought this year's track etiquette was cr8p to be honest.

I said I wasn't going to name names/cars, but feck it, the c*ck in the Spider cut me up twice on different laps, made it hard to overtake (even though I had caught him up relatively quickly), and nearly shoved me on the grass before Gerrards because he wasn't using his mirrors!

And then there's the guy in the yellow VX220 - Last year he wouldn't let Alex in his CSL overtake him for lap after lap, then surprise surprise I come up behind him in the Evo this year, and then proceeded to follow him around for 10 or so laps, until he had had enough & decided to pit.

I'm not risking my life or car trying to overtake or out-brake someone in wet conditions just because they're too fecking ignorant/arrogant to let a quicker car pass them.

Sure, I could've came in for half hour, and then tried going out on track again, but what with the weather, the number of cars on track, and the general lack of track etiquette, it probably wouldn't have made feck all difference anyway :rolleyes: :dearme:

Ray came up with a good idea - Have RTOC member cars only on track of the morning, until lunchtime, then allow everyone/non-members on track for the afternoon session.

And one thing I'd like is a more thorough drivers' briefing, in particular mentioning about over-taking/pulling over when faster cars come up behind you.

[IANMM]

could we not do a grand prix type of thing that ppl could enter? fastest lap fastest 10 laps different league for beginners and more experienced...????

just an idea

i know you dont want too make it too competitive but a bit of friendly rivalry?

[car.crash]

I think the sessions will ruin it and it will take another person to stand about all day and enforce it. The manners out there were ok from what I saw, at the end of the day it's a track and if people are put off by it then they won't come out anyway regardless of sessions. Maybe we need a more srict briefing on what we can and can't do and get the marshals to enforce the blue and black flags for idiots who won't move over or are too aggressive and state no overtaking on corners like every other track I have been to.

Edit. I just see marts post above and I agree on the stricter briefing as it's a free for all somtimes with the marshals enforcing no rules IMO.

[Mart]

Maybe we need a more srict briefing on what we can and can't do and get the marshals to enforce the blue and black flags for idiots who won't move over

Hook, line, sinker.

[Andrew Cooke]

Perhaps then we shift the National day back to Pod and Mallory becomes a track event ?
I can see far more members willing to do a couple of strip blasts :coffee:
146 tickets sold for track and entry ,don't know how many sold on the gate ?

I don't think it's a Mallory/Pod question, in fact I think Mallory is the better venue for the Nat day, it's just how to convince members to bring their club cars along rather than leave them at home because it's a 'track day'.

Why didn't the club cars that were there not go on track?
Why did members with club cars not bring them? (I was there on Sunday morning explaining to the French guys, whilst pointing to various non club cars, that their owners had club cars at home.)
What stopped the missing majority of club members from being there?


*I'm using the term 'club cars' as I'm not sure what they are any more, I'm inclined to think of us as the 'renault tinkerers club' rather than RTOC or R5 GT Turbo owner's.

[Andrew Cooke]

i will put my 10p worth in and say it would be nice to try shakespear raceway for a change maybe...?????

I've been thinking about popping along to a RWYB this year, feel free to arrange something :)

now, is it Long Marston, Avon Park, or Shakespeare Raceway this week :cry:

[IANMM]

i wouldnt put my car on the track.......far too many variables for something to go wrong its a car i use every day and i have spent ££££££s on it

its not the engine side i worry about its the body work or my wheels getting fecked up now i wouldnt mind if i had a track sl*g but again its getting it there so thats a trailer and something to pull it........

if i span my car into the tyre wall i would be gutted the amount of money it would have cost would be ridiculous....

i like POD straight line one other car to worry about simple easy fun

[IANMM]

I've been thinking about popping along to a RWYB this year, feel free to arrange something :)

now, is it Long Marston, Avon Park, or Shakespeare Raceway this week :cry:


i will do...scoff mentioned he might be going so i will arrange it arround that :)

going to give the old girl some grief before i strip her down for the rebuild over the winter months :)

[rat1]

No, not a no overtaking rule, but everyone should give those with the novice stickers in their back windows some more room?

i agree with this but think the morning session limited to members only.as i haven't had the gtt on the road for long i was unsure of what it capable of,when i finally got out i spent more time pulling over to let people pass and came back in after only 1/2 hour .:cry:

[SP33DY]

Reading through all of the above does raise some interesting points, yes in an ideal world it would be exclusively Renault Turbos. However the reality is that the club is predominatley percieved as a 5 GT Turbo owners club, even now whenever I mention the club and that I'm a member people ask me why as I don't have a 5 :rolleyes:

Other factors are that Renault in the last 10 years has only produced the Megane Sport which is a turbo vehicle (yes there has been lagunas, vel satis, espace but I don't think they'll be joining up here for trackdays and tuning tips :)), that is obviously a far cry from the 80's when every model had a turbo flagship. Yes there is a number of custom Renaults retro fitted with turbo engines but to be truthfull it seems the Renault Turbo breed is dieing out :cry:

So the option is (as I know has already been raised) open the doors fully to Renault Sports models. Realistically how hard could it be to add a normally aspirated section for the lads who love throttle bodies, cams etc....?

Track time wise I'll be honest, this was my first ever car trackday, however I do loads of bike trackdays and run mid to front in the quick group. But even I was a little intimadated before going out in my first session as even despite the weather, people were flying :eek:.
I'm with Andrew C and think that a novice session at the beginning of the day would be a great idea, you could run a half hour session for complete novices, then a further half hour for people who've been on track before but haven't been to Mallory. You could even allow the complete novices from the first 30min session to stay out in the second half hour to help build confidence. With a bit of help from the marshalls anyone found taken the p1ss could be black flagged and removed from the session.

As for track etiquette as mentioned this was my first car track day but I'll be honest apart from the two cars Mart mentioned I found everyone else to be pretty considerate, it was certainly alot tamer than an average bike trackday.
I did also think the brief was extremely poor and didn't realise that there was no overtaking in the corners :ashamed: and proceded to overtake loads of people in the bends. Apologies on that front.

Despite that I still had a great day and honestly don't think the organisers are to far from the mark, with a few tweaks to make it less intimadating it should be another awesome day.

Steve

[Mart]

Ok, maybe my previous 'cr8p' in general comment was unfair. Yes, the majority of people on track were ok, although I did also have a moment with the stickered-up Impreza who, after I had overtaken him on the back straight, then tried to come up the inside & over-take before the hairpin :sad2: If it weren't for me anchoring up & going wide at the hairpin, he'd have taken me out side on :dearme:

I'm glad that it's not just me that was peed off about the Spider & yellow VX220 antics on track.

For sure, the marshalls need to 'toughen up' and there needs to be a more detailed drivers' briefing.

[Andrew Cooke]

i wouldnt put my car on the track.......far too many variables for something to go wrong its a car i use every day and i have spent ££££££s on it


I'm only picking on you because you replied, not because you need singling out (actually I think you speak for the missing majority).

You'll use it daily on the road with potholes, curbs, shopping trolleys, uninsured nutters in Saxos, but the track is too risky? Do you think you'll suddenly lose the ability to steer because there are no cats eyes in the road?

Presumably you've occasionally been tempted to give it a bit around an empty roundabout once in a while? What's so different to a track?

Would you do a convoy run around Silverstone? How about Mallory?

Would you drive around the track if noone else was there?

[IANMM]

I'm only picking on you because you replied, not because you need singling out (actually I think you speak for the missing majority).

You'll use it daily on the road with potholes, curbs, shopping trolleys, uninsured nutters in Saxos, but the track is too risky? Do you think you'll suddenly lose the ability to steer because there are no cats eyes in the road?

Presumably you've occasionally been tempted to give it a bit around an empty roundabout once in a while? What's so different to a track?

Would you do a convoy run around Silverstone? How about Mallory?

Would you drive around the track if noone else was there?


ha ha ha.......i know where this is going :)

and yeah my front bumper and side archs show the war wounds of our lovely roads.....but i know what your saying...yes i do her some beans but only in the dry as my car in the rain is a nightmare on boost....

i think my problem is i have never done a track day....never drove on a track....so do i wish my first experience to be in my car that owes me 10k from her make over....

if i had a car that owes me a few hundred thats where i would like to start my track day experiences with

[Andrew Cooke]

i think my problem is i have never done a track day....never drove on a track....so do i wish my first experience to be in my car that owes me 10k from her make over....


I think that sums it up, many of these cars have an emotional value way beyond their worth. I'd rather be on track with you in your 5 than that banger you mentioned, I don't want to get mixed up in your over exuberance...

[DaveMayGTT]

Andrew has hit the nail on the head. I read the boards pretty much every day when i'm bored at work and love the idea of going to the national days but the fact is I dont want to get out on track for the first time and just feel like i'm pissing people off by going slowly or not taking a corner properly, feeling like I have to give it some as going slowly is probably more dangerous when everyone is approaching at speed behind you and then damaging my own or someone else's car.
If there was novice time on track with whatever rules everyone thinks is best i would come along.
As for the renault and non renault debate I think it should be kept mostly renault but as long as tickets are just sold to members here we cant go too far wrong.

[Big Steve - Raider]

I'm probably the same about my Raider to a certain extent but I do like to use it rather than just sit their polishing it.

It would be a nice sight to have a relaxed session for just Renault Turbo's so those of us who have brought their pride & joy can have a session or two on track?

Trouble would be how would you get people to pay up for an hour or so track session?? :scratch: And would people pay up for it up-front?

To answer the question that was raised in this post, I didn't bring my Raider to this event becasue I bought my Clio Track Slag & couldn't justify the cost of bringing the Raider what with petrol & stuff?

[car.crash]

I think I speak for most if not all track day drivers that novices and slow coaches don't annoy us. It's the idiots who don't use their mirrors and don't move over or cut you up that get our piss boiling. If your slower than the car behind just move over when its safe and hold your line in a corner and don't panic.

[Big Steve - Raider]

I think I speak for most if not all track day drivers that novices and slow coaches don't annoy us. It's the idiots who don't use their mirrors and don't move over or cut you up that get our piss boiling. If your slower than the car behind just move over when its safe and hold your line in a corner and don't panic.

:agree::agree::agree::agree::agree: WHOLEHEARTIDLY!!

Not once did I get annoyed if I came up behind someone, the problem comes when someone's crawling all over your back bumper & your waiting to find the right point to pull over & let them pass.

I would always pull over on the straights as thats the safest place to pass, you have to hold your line on the corners otherwise you can be in a whole world of FAIL! :crap:

[Mart]

I dont want to get out on track for the first time and just feel like i'm pissing people off by going slowly or not taking a corner properly

If the other drivers did feel peed off because of that, they shouldn't be out on track. Period.

It's not a race, and it's not a contest to be the quickest on track. Everyone should be driving within their limits, having 'fun' driving on track, but learning to improve your driving technique at the same time. Sure, there's nothing wrong with pushing yourself/the car a bit more as the day goes by, but just be wary of having an off if you start getting too hairy.

If you read back through this thread (and other threads on the ND), no-one has commented/moaned at people going slowly, taking the wrong line, or anything like that; more so just the idiots that want to 'race', won't move over/ease off when being over-taken, and basically the "I'm alright Jack, bollox to everyone else" attitude when on track.

[Mart]

Damn, too slow at typing again old man :mart: :( :D

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Perhaps we should have overtaking places(ie: on straights, and no over taking coming into & on the bends etc...

[Big Steve - Raider]

Perhaps we should have overtaking places(ie: on straights, and no over taking coming into & on the bends etc...

I thought that was the case?

I agree that the briefing was a bit.... brief this year! :crap:

[D4WNO]

One thing I'd like to do is perhaps provide a token to those who pay to go on track. Only once they can show me and the other sign-on guys a signed form saying they have attended track briefing and understand etc, do we swap that token for a wristband.

We'll be putting the bands on too as there were far too many people who had their bands on extremely loosely, obviously to share with their mates (pikies - it's a cheap track day as it is)

This way, we will know everyone on track has attended the briefing that that people aren't taking the mick. We can very easily have a word with the marshalls and ask them to be more strict :agree:

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

I thought that was the case?

I agree that the briefing was a bit.... brief this year! :crap:

It maybe the case, but mallory marshalls are not strict...

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh149/sexychrissmith/RTOC%20ND%202010/DSC00793.jpg

As seen here....

[DaveMayGTT]

If the other drivers did feel peed off because of that, they shouldn't be out on track. Period.

It's not a race, and it's not a contest to be the quickest on track. Everyone should be driving within their limits, having 'fun' driving on track, but learning to improve your driving technique at the same time. Sure, there's nothing wrong with pushing yourself/the car a bit more as the day goes by, but just be wary of having an off if you start getting too hairy.

If you read back through this thread (and other threads on the ND), no-one has commented/moaned at people going slowly, taking the wrong line, or anything like that; more so just the idiots that want to 'race', won't move over/ease off when being over-taken, and basically an "I'm alright Jack, bollox to everyone else" attitude when on track.

I'm sure you're right m8, its probably worse for the noobs like me imagining it than it is actually being out there which is where a bit of novice time on track would set up for an easy intro and then enjoy the whole day with the more experienced drivers.

[Robbo]

could we not do a grand prix type of thing that ppl could enter? fastest lap fastest 10 laps different league for beginners and more experienced...????

just an idea

i know you dont want too make it too competitive but a bit of friendly rivalry?




dont think you could do this as its then classed as racing. At the end of the day alot of people have different ideas of what they want to do with there cars, personally i really dont want to take a chance and end up stuffing or someone smashing my raider on track which is why i bought the £275 green clio rsi.

[Mart]

One thing I mentioned in the AGM, is that I thought 115 (I think that was the number mentioned) cars is far too many for a small track such as Mallory.

If the weather had been dry/good, I dread to think how busy the pitlane would've been waiting for cars to go out on track.

As a comparison, and again was mentioned at the AGM, the MLR hosted a Spa trackday earlier in the year - That was limited to 200 cars, and even though a lap of Spa is 4.3 miles in length, there were still queues to get out on track, which subsequently resulted in quite a fair bit of flack being aimed at the trackday organisers.

Now if that's the case with 200 cars on a 4.3 mile circuit, can you imagine the queue potential at Mallory, which is a 1.3 mile lap (in the config' we were driving), with 115 cars waiting to go on track.

Just some food for thought if you're planning on inviting all & sundry for next year's ND...

[leesaunders1981]

I would also like to mention the driver of the blue M3 who was overtaking on the right and then overtook on the red flag.... maybe it was the only was the only way he could get past the 5 or he just didnt know the rules......

[car.crash]

All we need is stricter marshals and a proper mornings briefing like every other track and to keep an eye on ticket sales wondering in bulk to other clubs and somone checking bands when heading into the pits, ie put the club stand next to the entrance and no car goes through untill they have shown the band. If novices are scared to go out then give them the first 30 mins of the day for free to get familiar with the track. If they like it then they can buy a ticket if they don't they can join the bucket brigade but dividing it up f1 style and into slow and fast groups won't work as no one will enforce it and no one will know what group to be in. There are also plenty of passenger seats empty if anyone wanted to come out and see what it's about before bringing their own car.

[Mart]

I'm sure you're right m8, its probably worse for the noobs like me imagining it than it is actually being out there which is where a bit of novice time on track would set up for an easy intro and then enjoy the whole day with the more experienced drivers.

Totally agree mate. I've always said that an hour or so should be put aside for track 'newbies' only, which should help give them confidence to then drive the track when everyone else goes on. I see no reason why the first hour of the day couldn't be put aside for that scenario, but that's just my opinion.

And then when everyone does come out to play, the marshalls should be on the ball with the blue & black flags.

The picture that Chris posted above pretty much sums up their lackadaisical attitude this year...

[Ashy]

Now if that's the case with 200 cars on a 4.3 mile circuit, can you imagine the queue potential at Mallory, which is a 1.3 mile lap (in the config' we were driving), with 115 cars waiting to go on track.



Not as bad if the track was restricted to 20 year old renaults. Most people go out for 10 laps max then spend 30 mins waiting for their cars to cool down before going back out.

Its a different senario once the track is clogged up with more modern cars that can stay out all day without any issues.

[Mart]

Is that the case though mate? I didn't see or hear of any major mechanical issues this year, and for sure, with previous 'normal' trackdays there hasn't been a problem where a GTT has had to come in, cool down, then go back out.

I thought the days of hot-running GTT's (even on track) were long since gone...

[BigWilly425]

The decision perhaps needs to be made about how to cater for all types, some may want to take their car on and drive at 60/70% of their limit, others will want to be much closer to 100%....
I would love to take the Williams back on track but I am more worried about someone taking me out.. I am sure other RTOC members would also like to have the oportunity to use their pride and joy but are worried about the consequences on any accident.. a lot of these cars are now irreplaceable...
Likewise, if the weather had been dry I am sure you would have seen more cars out on track and that really would have been interesting...

[Ian S]

What stopped the missing majority of club members from being there?They are simply not interested.

Or can't afford it.

Or are busy.

Most people join to find out how to fix or keep their car going, especially if they just bought one (5GTT).

Last time we counted up, it was about 400 that don't rejoin each year.

[Big Steve - Raider]

We're back to the chicken & egg situation here..

We restrict numbers to have a nice open trackday for the club but charge £100 per person for the event & no one buys tickets so we make a loss.

We keep the pricing low to attract the members & tempt people to have a go, then the event sells well & people complain we have sold too many passes to non members in Renaults but the club breaks even??

I personally would be all up for £100 per person & restrict the numbers to say 80 people all day & anyone with no link to either Renault or the RTOC can do one?! :laugh: However I also know that theirs a lot of people who won't be able to justify £100 for a track pass for a day?

Difficult. :confused:

I'm loving all the comments coming in & will deffo be referencing this thread next year when we come to organising ND 2011

[JRP]

:agree:
Is that the case though mate? I didn't see or hear of any major mechanical issues this year, and for sure, with previous 'normal' trackdays there hasn't been a problem where a GTT has had to come in, cool down, then go back out.

I thought the days of hot-running GTT's (even on track) were long since gone...

[Bigfoot]

I know I didn't go to this years ND but have been to all previous ones since being a member, I always thought ND was a day of RTOC members coming together and enjoying a day in a location. We always go about saying we are a non-profit club, but theres always a push to get numbers up at these events, inviting non members or ones which are just signing up to get a cheap track day. Membership is here to cover events, if we make a profit on this, plus then we start doing this for santa pod, and invite other people just to make up numbers, will can start running events every weekend throughout the year. And still make money, isn't this taking away the idea of the 1 event each year where a group of us join up together and enjoy the weekend.

Or are we looking at making profit, then next year do a big track event and look at other places and maybe not make a profit but have a better event.

[Mart]

...no one buys tickets so we make a loss...

Since when has the National Day been about making a profit?

This has been mentioned many times before - The club isn't a business, and providing the coffers are looking rosy each year, it shouldn't be a worry if the club doesn't make a profit from the ND's.

I'm well aware that we can't throw money willy nilly at Mallory (and Pod), as eventually the coffers will be akin to Mother Hubbard's cupboard, but it seems, to me anyway, that again too much emphasis is being made on making money/a profit on the day, rather than keeping the member's interests & the reason(s) we're here to heart.

From what Miller said at the AGM, we have ~£10k/£11k already in the coffers, so Mallory & Pod already look good for next year, and that's without taking into consideration any membership fees & ticket sales from over the next 11 months.

Anyway, that's slightly going off on a tangent...

[Big Steve - Raider]

You're right in what you say Dale, the RTOC is not a profit making club and we hold the ND to bring everyone together but if we just think of us regular members all the time & keep making a loss on every event then it won't take long for the coffers to become empty & were in Sh1t street! :(

Personally I think the club should not make a loss on everything we do as it makes the club stronger when we have a bit of something behind us!

I know you weren't their mate but Miller commented at the AGM that during discussions with other clubs regarding signing up to group events the RTOC was the only club who had the money in the bank to sign up to whatever was being proposed their & then. The likes of Cliosport etc are grubbing around with a begging bowl getting the money in the door to then pay things off.

EDIT: Yes Mart, I agree with what your saying. The club can't keep expecting to sustain losses :agree:

[Big Steve - Raider]

Since when has the National Day been about making a profit?

This has been mentioned many times before - The club isn't a business, and providing the coffers are looking rosy each year, it shouldn't be a worry if the club doesn't make a profit from the ND's...

I agree with what your saying mate, but a ND that runs at a loss must be marked up as a failure in some way becasue the club loses money. :confused:

People, let me know what you all think to this scenario:


The club pays for another Mallory Park & the ticket prices are increased to £100 per car to cover the costs and keep numbers down.
We only sell 50 tickets or so?
Those that go to the day have an excellent time becasue the track is all theirs
But the club loses £4000??
Would that be a success or failure??

[Mart]

I agree with what your saying mate, but a ND that runs at a loss must be marked up as a failure in some way becasue the club loses money


It's only a failure if you're looking at it from a money-making point of view - Going on that basis, every previous ND & Pod day has been a failure then...

[stu21t]

I didn't make this years nd as my cars in bits, had it have been workin I would have been there, on track or not.
There's a few things putting me off tracking it,
1 I've never been on track and I'm scared of losing control, or some1 else losing control resulting in an accident.
Me getting over enthusiastic and crashing through pushing my limits/boundaries.
The expectations people have of my car lol. And it not measuring up. Lol

The car is irreplaceable both in terms of sentiment and money, I could never build another and can't bear the idea of totalling it.


A 30min/1hr beginer session on the other hand where I can get used to the car on a track/near it's limits does appeal.

I would however come to support the day/club had it been working.

As for future nat days, if it were £100 for track I wouldn't go on, I'm there for fun not a full on track day.
Maybe offer a half day for half price? I would go for that, meaning more money for the club and more of an appeal for me.

I don't think you can ban non renaults as many club members won't/can't bring their renaults, defo limit it to 1 or 2 tickets per member tho. It makes it more of a club event.
Unless other Renault owners want to come.


I'm not sure why I'm a member on here other than to support the club because it helped me a lot when I was new to R5s. That's not a dig, more of an explanation as to why some people(myself included) are members.
I've not met many other members, and due to various reasons I don't make it to many events, but I always want to lol.

Now I don't use any of the discounts, or really need help with anything, the sales bit is useful tho.
I'm very quiets on the boards but do read them quite a bit, it's nice to have somewhere to go to talk/read about Renault turbos tho. Lol
But I keep renewing for support to keep it going.

[car.crash]

If tickets get near £100 I'm out. It's not a proper trackday so I won't pay that money. I didn't think money was the issue here anyway. I thought it was too many non members coming and our current members in fear of going onto the track?

[Big Steve - Raider]

It's only a failure if you're looking at it from a money-making point of view - Going on that basis, every previous ND & Pod day has been a failure then...

No not at all, disregarding the money for a bit. If the club made a loss then surely it means we must not have offered what the consumer wanted therefore he didn't buy a ticket?

I'm talking from a point of view of "What is the club offering me for ND?"

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

I agree with what your saying mate, but a ND that runs at a loss must be marked up as a failure in some way becasue the club loses money. :confused:

People, let me know what you all think to this scenario:


The club pays for another Mallory Park & the ticket prices are increased to £100 per car to cover the costs and keep numbers down.
We only sell 50 tickets or so?
Those that go to the day have an excellent time becasue the track is all theirs
But the club loses £4000??

Would that be a success or failure??

You forget that althought Mallory colst £9k for Track, camping, security etc etc... the club could bring in

I think the core track club members who go to ND and track days are willing spend upto £100 full day for the track time and i would say there are 50-60 members...

So thats 5-6k maybe a tad bit more, also bring in camping money... £10 per person for the 2 nights (150-200 people? - not sure on the exact figures) but thats £1k-2k...

So really the club would only loose around £1-2k max..

We should also bump up the passenger tickets to the standard £10 fee, maybe £30 for additional drivers?? - could bump up the funds abit more to break even...

[Robbo]

Not as bad if the track was restricted to 20 year old renaults. Most people go out for 10 laps max then spend 30 mins waiting for their cars to cool down before going back out.

Its a different senario once the track is clogged up with more modern cars that can stay out all day without any issues.


no mate its only your car that gets hot, smokes then blow up:cooter:

[BriC]

Does anyone know how many properly active members we have? Surely it's no way near 1000... more like 150-200 I would have said. And off that, I wouldn't say 80-100 members on track was a bad turnout.

I span out once and it put me off going out again, because like IANMM says... I've put too much time, effort and money into my 5 to write it off on track.

I think that was mainly because of the wet track though. I think I would be much more confident on track, and have a much better feel for the car in the dry. I don't class myself as a novice either. I'm by no means a race driver, but I've been on track a few times, been go karting lots, play lots of racing games (I know it's not real, but gives you a good idea of racing lines, etc)

PS - my car was getting quite warm on track, but I think I know why that is - it doesn't have the cowling around the rad.. it's fine out on the road.

[DaveMayGTT]

surely the club needs to make a profit over all and not just on a single event? I think national day is the only day where members expect that there membership money goes towards it. So count the money on track day passes and attendance add a certain amount of membership fee towards the event and it will even out and then we can make it a RTOC day not a free for all. Unless other overheads take all the membership fee's in which case im talking rubbish :)

[Mart]

No not at all, disregarding the money for a bit. If the club made a loss then surely it means we must not have offered what the consumer wanted therefore he didn't buy a ticket?

As Ian mentioned above, perhaps it's more so based on the fact that some people simply can't be bothered to attend, or don't have the money to attend, or were elsewhere that weekend (it is August/school holiday after all), or saw the cr8p weather & thought 'bollox to it, I'll stay at home in the warm & dry'.

In comparison to other car clubs, we're relatively small fry. How many current members do we have? 900 odd at a push? Now divide that by how many post/view the threads on here, and thus with those that don't post/view probably weren't even aware of ND & Pod day, then from that, divide again with how many can't be bothered to attend a ND/Pod day anyway (as per the aforementioned reasons), then finally divide by the infamous rtoc 'rule of 3' figure.

In short, I don't think it's anything to do with not offering the 'consumer' what they want. It's just a simple matter of fact that the club doesn't have the numbers to start with in the first place.

[Bigfoot]

Does anyone know how many properly active members we have? Surely it's no way near 1000... more like 150-200 I would have said. And off that, I wouldn't say 80-100 members on track was a bad turnout.

Threads: 13,862, Posts: 155,029, Members: 2,272, Active Members: 875

Not sure what they class as active, im sure its with people logging in within 30 days.

[Bigfoot]

Plus 167 members have logged in today so far and 523 within the month

[5teve L]

I'm gutted I couldn't go as I really wanted to this year.
Anyway my 2p's worth from what I have seen/heard.

: I would like to see 30 mins to 1 hr as a novice of 'novice' tracktime as I assume track is different to the road & I would feel intimidated I think having a car sitting on my bumper, maybe making me push slightly more than I'd like.

: I would be worried about smashing my car, does my insurance cover me on track as it's not a timed event or do you need extra insurance? may be another factor putting people off ?

: I also thought ND was about 'the cars & members', it seems to be heading more toward a full on 'track day' event now. IMO that is the good thing about pod day, you at least get to speak to alot of people as they aren't out on track all day.

: I would have been peeved at alot of other clubs getting in on 'the action' & acting like 'knobs' but I do understand the club has to try to re-coup some costs if members don't buy tickets, but it seems it was a cheap trackday to some clubs... price needs to go up for non-members I think.

Just my thoughts on it as a club member. :D

[andyrg]

Hi Guys.

We had a great weekend, friday too monday.

i have a Clio mk1 2.0 Turbo. And i joined this club for it being for turbo charged turbo owners, Clio Sport and 16valvers etc do have the forums but not many members have the info on turbos etc, hence why i originaly joined this forum.

regarding the track day at National Day.

1) The camping area was some what very very basic, with no showers or even light son the friday night for the toilet

2) The Track day brief was a total joke, the worse ive had. the Instructions of "no overtaking on corners" soon went out the window with the Ztec Fiesta and the M3's but every one doing it, It made me feel uneasy and not safe, with the weather conditions. were were the black flags ???

3) The ammount of other cars didnt bother me at all even tho the mx5s were also driving a little wild,

4) Overall had a great weekend but i agree about none members should pay more and that track tickets should be purchased before too support the club. I did ask regarding my co driver getting the track time at the members price as we both own the car and both share this username before i ordered the extra ticket, my passanger paid full price

5 ) the dry would have made the track better ;)

Andy

3)

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Andy there are showers(communal), but there in the paddock... although most members dont use/know about them... wait in cue for next year no doubt,

[Big Steve - Raider]

Andy there are showers(communal)

Yeah they're proper School Stylee showers alright!!! :laugh:

No hiding behind a shower screen in their I can tell you?! ;)

We'll have to splash out on an official bar of RTOC Soap to share round! :crap: :sad:

[Andrew Cooke]

We'll have to splash out on an official bar of RTOC Soap to share round! :crap: :sad:

:eek:

[IANMM]

We'll have to splash out on an official bar of RTOC Soap to share round! :crap: :sad:[/quote]


im in :) :cooter::cooter::cooter::cooter:

[Big Steve - Raider]

Last user has to pick the hairs out. Even the really curly ones!! :sad::sad:

[andyrg]

Andy there are showers(communal), but there in the paddock... although most members dont use/know about them... wait in cue for next year no doubt,



No disrespect to any RTOC Staff/Commitee but i do thing next year more Organisation could be done, too resolve some issues.

There were so many prices being told for things by one person and then another price by some one else etc

At times we didnt know were to be or what times etc :) but this may be down to me not reading correctly

[Bass J]

I was at mallory this year ..wasnt on track tho.

my thoughts ..maybe make each session on experience of track driving ....me myself ive not been out on a track ..so i recon a beginners session would be a good idea ...get me used to the track ..and get a hang of everything. Id be well up for going on the track at mallory next year if we did a beginners session ..then the begginers that are confident go on with the experienced track drivers ..which would be totatly upto them. Means the driver would get a wee taste of the action :)

Also an idea ..maybe make a discounted price(for the beginner session) and a deposit for the beginner driver. If they wish to go the whole day ..they pay full price on the day...so if they dont like it ..they dont have to pay the full day ..maybe an idea rtoc could work on :smokin:

[car.crash]

i dont understand what you need to get used to? its just tarmac with bends like a road but a million times safer as everyone is going in the same way without all the hazards on a road. you drive to your limits and move over for faster cars when safe.
also if we stick 40 beginners out there in one session and experienced in another then the novices wont learn how things work on a track as none of you will know what your doing so go out with everyone else and learn from them if your still worried then go out in the passenger seat or with an instructor.
every year we fire up these threads and try to change things, i agree some bits did need changing a little but most of it was perfect and the organisers did a great job.

[Bass J]

i dont understand what you need to get used to? its just tarmac with bends like a road but a million times safer as everyone is going in the same way without all the hazards on a road. you drive to your limits and move over for faster cars when safe.
also if we stick 40 beginners out there in one session and experienced in another then the novices wont learn how things work on a track as none of you will know what your doing so go out with everyone else and learn from them if your still worried then go out in the passenger seat or with an instructor.
every year we fire up these threads and try to change things, i agree some bits did need changing a little but most of it was perfect and the organisers did a great job.

I suppose i see your point .... suppose it would just be a case of throwing the beginners in at the deep'end ...let them learn ...its probs how the experienced drivers learnt. :) ignore my comment above lol ...i was thinking of the beginners ..suppose putting them in with other beginners nobody's going to learn a thing :laugh:

[car.crash]

i rekon give the guys who are unsure the first 30 mins out there at a gentle pace for £10. if they like it then they can get a ticket minus the £10 they already spent.
it really is not bad and scary as people think out there.

[warpspeed]

Driving standards were poor at times, the nova tried coming down my right hand side after devil's elbow even though i indicated right and was letting the car run out to the right. don't know if the owners a member or not and i don't really care, the marshall's were not paying enough attention.

The idea of a novices session is good, it would also be good if more experienced trackdayers (is that a word?! lol) could be a passenger to give some advice allthough i would be very nervous about being a passenger with a novice, i was a passenger with someone on their first lap of the nurburgring and was more scared than they were, it turned out fine though as the track was very quiet and their driving was better than i expected, i then took the guy out for a lap which was fine but the next day when i went out as a passenger with them i was petrified! seems they suddenly thought they 'knew' the track and had decided to go for it! :chuckup:
I don't really care if non-members go on track as long as driving standards are upheld by those given the responsibility to do so.
If a decision is made to increase the trackpass price for non-members and less passes are sold i would be happy to pay maybe £20 more to avoid financial losses as it's not just the tracktime i'm there for, it's also the chance to catch up with and enjoy the company of members i may only see once or twice a year and also for fun n games on the sat night

It's a shame that more members don't make the effort to attend nd and stay for the fun on sat night, i drove around 300 miles to attend so there's no excuses regarding distance.
Sat night was very quiet, i understand the weather didn't help as the year before was really good.
Could the club arrange a bbq/drinks for sat night and increase the camping price to include the food part of it to encourage people to attend the bbq, drink could be purchased and sold on at cost (don't know if we would need a liscence or to get a bar in on a sale or return basis)
That might be an incentive for people to 'come together' as there is usually a few groups around the campsite that don't make the effort to socialise with the other groups.

[JRP]

[quote=
It's a shame that more members don't make the effort to attend nd and stay for the fun on sat night, i drove around 300 miles to attend so there's no excuses regarding distance.
Sat night was very quiet, i understand the weather didn't help as the year before was really good.
Could the club arrange a bbq/drinks for sat night and increase the camping price to include the food part of it to encourage people to attend the bbq, drink could be purchased and sold on at cost (don't know if we would need a liscence or to get a bar in on a sale or return basis)
That might be an incentive for people to 'come together' as there is usually a few groups around the campsite that don't make the effort to socialise with the other groups.[/quote]


Night before national day is normally better.. in my eyes anyway and been that way for years.

making the effort and no excuses... yeah camping in pissing rain fri night, and getting cold all saturday... i went home... friday night was the lick.. as for people making effort, alot have familys and kids and it can be a real challenge for them

[warpspeed]

Yes as i said it wasn't much fun because of the weather but i didn't just sit in my tent and moan about it or go home i took some beers and went for a wander with Miller on sat night, yes our feet were muddy and wet but ND only happens once a year so we were gonna make the best of it.
I only really have a couple of beers on the fri as i like to keep a clear head for going on track on the sat so can't really comment on whether fri or sat is better.
If there weather was too bad for you and you weren't enjoying it JRP then fair enough for going home, my comments are merely that, comments not digs.
Last year there was a good crowd at the big fire but there were still groups that kept themselves to themselves so my ideas were just a way of trying to create a good atmosphere and encourage people to mix a bit more, i'm a shy person and find it hard to walk up to a group i don't know to talk to them, if there's a big group it's easier to mix with more people.

[JRP]

Yes as i said it wasn't much fun because of the weather but i didn't just sit in my tent and moan about it or go home i took some beers and went for a wander with Miller on sat night, yes our feet were muddy and wet but ND only happens once a year so we were gonna make the best of it.
I only really have a couple of beers on the fri as i like to keep a clear head for going on track on the sat so can't really comment on whether fri or sat is better.
If there weather was too bad for you and you weren't enjoying it JRP then fair enough for going home, my comments are merely that, comments not digs.
Last year there was a good crowd at the big fire but there were still groups that kept themselves to themselves so my ideas were just a way of trying to create a good atmosphere and encourage people to mix a bit more, i'm a shy person and find it hard to walk up to a group i don't know to talk to them, if there's a big group it's easier to mix with more people.

Dont be shy then dude, just stroll up and tell them you own the place... or just who you are.. and you will get straight in there! i wanderd round all friday with a few people :) good times, although admitadly i stayed put down in the marqee (or how ever its spelt) with the fire, and old faces.... i guess people just stay where they feel comfortable..

[Whiteley]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)


Spoke to whiteley, he was a good chap :agree:

Excuse my ignorance, but I'm not sure who you were? I spoke to quite a few new faces on the day. Thanks anyway :)

I guess I'm guilty of joining the club mainly for the ND, I'll not deny that, however it's in the interest of the club to attract new members and I had a thoroughly enjoyable time over the weekend, soggy camping included. I'm a paid up member on 5 Renault based clubs (crikey :eek:) and I've found myself browsing the RTOC more than any since the ND, that can only be a good thing.

The track time was positive on the whole. I attend a fair amount of regular trackdays and made a few observations throughout the day, most of which have already been covered in this thread. Briefing was far too brief. Was the chap doing the briefing part of the club or part of Mallory? Perhaps if the latter then it'd be a better idea for an experienced member/CM to hold the briefing as it'd be more specific to the interests of the club. Other briefings can last half an hour or so - whilst ever so slightly boring it's all useful info and helps with the running of the day.

As has been mentioned, experienced trackdayers (I'll include myself in that) have no problems whatsoever with slower drivers. If we stick to the rules (comes back to the lack of briefing) then we'd all get along and passing/moving aside wouldn't be a problem and cause minimal delays on both parts. I'll add the black early shape Impreza to the VX/Spider 'mare to get past' list :scratch:.

Thanks from me to those responsible for organising and making me feel welcome, very much appreciated. Dawno I think it was me you spoke to when you asked the Clio lot to join in for pics :).

Chris (Grey primered Mk1 Clio)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y270/whiteley/th_preview_IMG_3997.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y270/whiteley/?action=view&current=preview_IMG_3997.jpg)

[TrixNFlix]

Don't worry I'm used to not making any impact on people during conversations! :wasntme:
That's the way I roll! :smokin::scared:

[Steve]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)

Good job this ain't a cowboy film or i'd be hung already :scratch:

I'm a paid up member & several friends are on here also with 5's & other cars.
I only purchased my ticket, but i did mention this day to several of the mazda guys.

I had several walks round the Renaults, clios & turbos.
I'm on several forums & participated in many trackdays over various forums.
My main outlet for trackdays is circuit-days & the committee members should come along & see how a properly organised event is CONTROLLED :confused:

Your day was very enjoyable only spoiled by weather & few clueless drivers.

The briefing was shocking! Lets just call it a brief, the worst i've ever encountered.
I & many others were left clueless.
No mention of overtaking by consent or when safe to on the straights only etc.
Some were overtaking anywhere & everywhere.
This is where you lay down the rules & ENFORCE them!

If your looking for another venue you could do far worse, but then again Doningtons back:)

Sorry you felt so strongly, but whens it's pissing it down it's hard to mingle :)

[car.crash]

so are we agreed that one of the main prolems was a sh1t brief and no blue and black flags. if we can get mallory to withold those rules which shouldnt be an issue as they probably do it on most track days we are heading in the right direction. alot of people with bad driving out there may not know any better if its their first outing if they are not told the rules in the briefing.

[Steve]

New poster! (less than 10 posts)


so are we agreed that one of the main prolems was a sh1t brief and no blue and black flags. if we can get mallory to withold those rules which shouldnt be an issue as they probably do it on most track days we are heading in the right direction. alot of people with bad driving out there may not know any better if its their first outing if they are not told the rules in the briefing.


It's possibly the best place to start.
Safety first & all that.

[warpspeed]

I'm not annoyed with anybody for not mingling this year because the weather was sh*te, just trying to come up with idea for future ND's to maybe bring together us all as members, to create a more integrated community, my that was deep wasn't it! :laugh:
If members or non-members hear about what a great time we all have on fri/sat night they may get a bit envious an decide to join in a bit more the following year:D

[Alistair Gresty]

Wow, didn't expect a passing observation made about a event I didn't even attend (because I do not have a working renault turbo) on another thread to cause this large debate, sorry didnt mean to cause a fuss!!

However I think perhaps some of the difficulties (lack of member interest) arrise because of the reativley small membership & the trend towards restorations & "oe" might have a bearing on people wanting to risk there now very valuable classic on track.

Just a thought but does the club have a marketing budget? I remember the good old days where every car mag you picked up had a r5gtoc advert in it, I know times have moved on & I don't buy maxpower anymore, but surley theres a modern equivilent, (banner on pistonheads or something?)

[Steve]

I'm not annoyed with anybody for not mingling this year because the weather was sh*te, just trying to come up with idea for future ND's to maybe bring together us all as members, to create a more integrated community, my that was deep wasn't it! :laugh:
If members or non-members hear about what a great time we all have on fri/sat night they may get a bit envious an decide to join in a bit more the following year:D

I'll be back as it was a good day out.
My mate with 'car 25' needs some space for his van, trailer etc, as when wet he drives in the trailer as no roof at all. This don't help us out either, as only being curtious to park out of the main arena.
He does some awesome passenger laps :D as i found out, i'm not nervous normally but he's one hell of a driver.
His datalogger don't lie even in the wet!

[J8TRO]

I'm a paid up member & several friends are on here also with 5's & other cars.
I only purchased my ticket, but i did mention this day to several of the mazda guys.

Steve, Don't take this personally, i don't know you from Adam, and your probably a top bloke, but this really pisses me off. I am, what I would call a true Renault Turbo owner / enthusiast, you sir are not.

I've checked your stats, its easy to do its on your profile. You have made 10 posts, all are to do with National Day, what its going to cost you etc, and a couple to say it was a good day. What have you bought or shared with the club that is any way related to Renault turbos? oh that's right you had one back in the 80's.

The reason you joined is to come to our track day......end of.

Your paid up because it's cheap at £25......end of.

This also goes for the BMW owners (Jaffa / Brose not included - see below) and others out on track in other randoms, (VX220, impreza's, MX5's etc)

I have more respect for the Clio boy's, as at the end of the day, most of them who turned up, are what I would consider active members.

I also understand some Uber RTOC members (i.e. Mart, Adam L, Duncan G, Bill J etc) have moved on with respect to their transport, HOWEVER for example, Mart is one of the most active and knowledgeable people on here, his involvement in this club is huge, therefore if Mart wants to blast round track all day long in his "heave Ho" (nice one Big S) he's more than entitled to, he's ****in earned it.

I believe when the tickets go on sale, they should be monitored more closely as to who they are going to. For example, to have a ticket you must have a 50 post count??? this would stop people signing up just for the track day...........wouldn't it?

An argument could be you have been a member for years but don't hardly post. that's fine, just add that to the above..........i.e. 50 posts or 3 years membership.

I'm on a role.

The argument for intimidation on track is a little lame, at the end of the day your in front, the guy behind can't go past until you move over, just make sure you do if your slower than them in a place you are comfortable to do so.............its very simple.

If you don't move for a couple of corners fine, they will have to wait and they know that, its the people who just don't move after lap after lap that are the problem. they know who they are, they do it deliberately. Its either down to them being retarded, stupid or ignorant.

Finally, Big Steve, increasing the track price to £100 will not stop the track enthusiast none members, or just signed up to be a member for this reason. It will instead just stop people in the club who are unsure in going on track buying their ticket. Hence some of the reply's below your suggestion. £100 is still a cheap track day for people who do this regularly.

I'm off to get another beer..........

[Spooky]

So what's the plan or location for next year then? :D

Hopefully we won't be going back to Mallory...

[J8TRO]

Hopefully we won't be going back to Mallory...

Why do you say that buddy? Mallory is class, just need to sort out a few rules and put some plans in place now we have done a few years there and learn from them....

[old skool turbo power]

.
.I offered 21TOC a good deal but no one was interested ,also RAOC and only one of those turned up .


just outta intrest mate why was this for and they did not want to come along to the day?considering its a day to do with reanults im abit baffled on why there did not want to come along:scratch:as for the amount of 5s that was there i was bit suprised tbh :crap:there wasnt many.this was national day 2007 the weather was not the best but many 5s were on show :agree:http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=127&pictureid=12734http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=127&pictureid=12735http://www.rtoc.org/boards/picture.php?albumid=127&pictureid=12736

[J8TRO]

.this was national day 2007 the weather was not the best but many 5s were on show :agree:

Reality is the 5 is a dying breed...........that's my guess.

[old skool turbo power]

Not as bad if the track was restricted to 20 year old renaults. Most people go out for 10 laps max then spend 30 mins waiting for their cars to cool down before going back out.

Its a different senario once the track is clogged up with more modern cars that can stay out all day without any issues.


I dunno about that.i did ok going to nurburgring in 2008 there and back.also gave my 20yr old renault a blast on the ring as well:cool:i was not giving it the full beans as it was my 1st time but i made sure that i was at least was trying to go with the flow :scared:on the track the temps was all good and the car ran sweet no need to cool it down major once i come off just let it idel once i packed up for a few mins.age is nothing it just the way the car is looked after :agree:

[minty83]

[quote=D4WNO;172525]

We'll be putting the bands on too as there were far too many people who had their bands on extremely loosely, obviously to share with their mates (pikies - it's a cheap track day as it is)

/quote]

thats what the staff do normally on a track day. im for this.. the briefing was far to brief! and in regards to track time my 10p's worth would be to have a hr for novices so they can get used to things the 20 minute sessions on a first come first serve basis.
And then the arguement about non members... the price should be increased but as it is to cheap but as someone mentioned only 7% of members were actually on track.

[Big Steve - Raider]

Good post J8TRO!! :goodJob:

[Steve]

I have more respect for the Clio boy's, as at the end of the day, most of them who turned up, are what I would consider active members.




Until earlier this yr i'd had Renaultsports of various disguises for the past 6 yrs.
I got the info from cliosport, look on there im Steve also & no newbie.

Your day was a bargain, it was £200 Sat before. :coffee:

[J8TRO]

Until earlier this yr i'd had Renaultsports of various disguises for the past 6 yrs.
I got the info from cliosport, look on there im Steve also & no newbie.

Your day was a bargain, it was £200 Sat before. :coffee:

As stated previously this is not personal, but i refer back to my point, what have you bought to this club?

I really wouldn't have a problem if you had joined the day before and never posted or even been on the boards if you had turned up in a Renault turbo of some sort, but you didn't, you turned up in an MX5 FFS.

Your :coffee: nails you perfectly, you don't care what I think, you had a cheap day. I'm quite sure i'm not the only one who feels like I do.

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

I think a shake up of sorts is needed for ND, the club can afford to make a small loss..

2005 at Pod = £2887 Loss
2006 at Brunters = £9403 Loss
2007 at FCS (Rockingham) = £3858 Loss
2008 at Mallory = £5806 loss
2009 at Mallory = £ Unknown as of yet???
2010 at Mallory = A small profit

20005 : Remember that POD is a preferred favorite for the majority of people but we cant get a weekend date, nor a summer date there... even so in 2005 we still made a loss... at there were more members back then, more Renault Turbo's on the road etc...

2006: Brunters was a huge loss, a great day out, but lack on camping track side meant we had to convoy early from campsite to the track (not good for those who had a heavy drinking session on Friday)

2007: A shambles really, a shared ND at FCS, sure more cars attended(as seen in pics) on the day, but a huge loss and a short amount of dedicated track time for our members (1 hour?) and a parade lap that was meant to be for just RTOC but every joe bloggs joined in....

2007-present: Mallory park has camping onsite (although basic), a large ish loss on 2008, 2009 wasnt as bad, 2010 showed a small profit... Now for sure 2010 had a brief briefing, and perhaps next year we can ask for rules to be more stricter etc (but did anyone get refused on track for excessive DB limit??

As for other other tracks/venues, try finding one that will entertain a small car club, or that is affordable... let alone one that will let us in over a whole weekend, in peak season etc....

[Mart]

Great above post J8TRO, and thanks for your kind comments :agree: :)

Maybe to keep the interest levels up, perhaps something/somewhere different is required for next year's ND then? Variety is the spice of life & all that.

Not that I'm personally saying that needs to be the case, as I find Mallory a good place for a ND - Fairly central location, camping on-site for both nights, fairly relaxed atmosphere all round, and of course it's a track based event, which is my right up my street :)

However, maybe there's gonna come a time in the near future when people start getting 'bored' of Mallory, in the same vane that ND @ Pod took a knock a few years back. The problem there, if the tediousness does start setting in with members, is that the club may then struggle to make good numbers for following ND's regardless of location.

Likewise, if the RTOC members are seeing their day (which is something the Committee seem to be forgetting...maybe) over-run with joe public cars instead, that might also cause the numbers to drop for future ND's.

Bottom line, imho, if future ND's continue in the same vane, I can see the weekend eventually turning into a track-based alternative to USC'esque events - In other words, a 'free for all'.

[Hoolio]

Yes I have to agree it was a good post by J8TRO. I've been itching to add my thoughts but after my one and only ND so far and one that was full of mini disasters I wasn't sure if my thoughts were that valid. I do think it should be resticted to members and maybe invited clubs, that way no one can complain about the what make the cars are and it may improve the etiquette a little as well as we all "know" each other. I also think it's a good idea to have a beginners session (i would take advantage of this) and also maybe a black cross in the rear window to warn trackday regulars.
I don't think raising the cost a litttle will upset too many. As remarked upon it is very very cheap for a trackday. And although it's a club not for profit its always good to have money to fund other things and losses like those above surely are not sustainable in the long run.
Old skool turbo power, I know what you are saying I thought I would see more as well (though left mine at home):ashamed: I would have loved to have brought mine to show off but it was just too far in that weather so brought the Trophy but that then brings up the ND/trackday conundrum, there is no way that i would take J510 on track but if the weather had been better after watching the fun everyone was having I think I would have given the T a few laps.
Btw thanks again to everyone who gives up their time to organise this stuff for those of us who can hardly get off their arses.;)

[tonesGTT]

We're looking for a tricky balance here - we dont want too many freeloaders but we dont want to make too much of a loss as a club.

Personally, i think we have a good balance of camping/facilities/entertainment (especially when it rains!) and cars currently but do agree that the whole MX5 thing was terrible. I support the idea of looking into how we sell the tickets and to who. Might not be that easy but perhaps there could be a brief online form to complete? Whats your car, length of membership? Now to be honest, my friend signed up to the club so he could get a track pass for this year. This situation might warrant the need for the application to be supported by an existing member?

Just some thoughts on it...

[JRP]

J8TRO, god speed fella :) I have tought you well:laugh:

[TNT Tricky Nicky]

Don't worry I'm used to not making any impact on people during conversations! :wasntme:
That's the way I roll! :smokin::scared:


snap!:laugh:

i haven't fully read all posts in here, just had a scan through.

i was unable to attend this year which really annoyed me but there wasn't a lot i could do about it as i had to work due to my friend, who was meant to cover for me being diagnosed with a brain tumour so i really couldn't get upset about it, as proved, there are worse things in life than missing a national day.

i was annoyed however that people were joining just for the fact they could do a cheap track day, it's not what national day is about. how do we stop this though? i joined ztoc for free as i was doing some research into buying one, it took them two weeks to authorize my membership, that may stop the last min.com people coming who hear about it on the grapevine.

maybe a sliding pay scale so the earlier you buy the cheaper but as it gets a month or so away up the price to what a normal track day would cost?

last year was my first time on track and i was more nervous about wiping someone else out than my car (i got track insurance:laugh:). once i got into it, it was great but annoying when people were holding me up and not moving, i think a novice/warm up session would be the way forward, then open pit lane.

[jaffa]

:agree:

That's what I said on the day. It was only a matter of time before word got out - The interweb is a small place. There was that group of MX5's all huddled together on the other the other side of the paddock, and someone said to me on the day that they didn't seem to want to talk, or have anything to do with 'us' :scratch:


yeah they were with me by my invitation and your a suvvarner so they wouldnt speak would they....:laugh:

[jaffa]

Lol. The Clio guys were good, I went over and invited them to join in on the big Renault car photo and they all drove over. The MX5 guys....not a single one introduced themselves or anything, bit rude



tut tut:dearme:

[jaffa]

Just keep it to 5GTT next year then should get at least 15 on track:)


you need to log on to another trackday site m8

pussyboyzinthere pussyboycarz.com


:cooter:

[jaffa]

I think the number of 'track day' types turning up is putting off members from just having a go. I think we need "no overtaking" in the morning to encourage members to do a few laps and turn up to support the day. Screw the track dayers, there are plenty of days for them to play, but if they come, the afternoon is theirs.

So,

AM ticket, no overtaking £30
Day ticket £80

no, you can't just buy an afternoon ticket.

oh, and errr hijack...

comon wtf.............

[jaffa]

We had some bulk buying this year but I let it slide . Next year we are going to restrict it to one ticket per member for track .
Getting other Renault clubs involved is not as easy as it sounds .I offered 21TOC a good deal but no one was interested ,also RAOC and only one of those turned up .


:wasntme:

[jaffa]

The last 2 trackdays at mallory seemed fine to me but this year was much busyer due to many other car clubs jumping in with groups and luckily the rain kept the track numbers down. If a paying member wants to drive one of their non Renault cars I think it's fine as it spreads the field a little and stops bunching up on the track but having a fleet of mx5s, m3's etc turning up is just people taking advantage of our cheap track day which IMO is not a proper trackday as most people out there do it as a one off and not intending to hit massive speeds or find the limits of their car. If a member wants a mate to come along and have a go and there are spare tickets then we should sell them to help our costs but letting another club order a batch is a big no for me especially if they don't know anyone from rtoc or have any future interest in our club other than mallory and pod.


they were 2 mx5s 1 is a member they were 3 m3's 2 are members............

[IANMM]

As for other other tracks/venues, try finding one that will entertain a small car club, or that is affordable... let alone one that will let us in over a whole weekend, in peak season etc....


i spoke to shakespear a few years back about this they said it wouldn't be a prob camping no problem and a lot lot less than POD for the weekend......

[jaffa]

Is that the case though mate? I didn't see or hear of any major mechanical issues this year, and for sure, with previous 'normal' trackdays there hasn't been a problem where a GTT has had to come in, cool down, then go back out.

I thought the days of hot-running GTT's (even on track) were long since gone....


passby mine one day m8 i need your infulence....not managed to crack this one yet:scratch:

[clee]

jaffa ya coooont !!!

[car.crash]

they were 2 mx5s 1 is a member they were 3 m3's 2 are members............

I bet they only joined for the trackday. Next year they will have it dead cheap with a £10 renewal fee.

[jaffa]

what a very dissapointing thread and so many points that i was going to reply on but tbh there are so many i wouldnt know were to start..........i have pm those who i have questions for in regards to comments........i await some replies.....i truely am sat here shaking my head out of dis belief of what utter drivel has been wrote,i would be ashamed to be associated with you if thats your view and im sure if other car forums and clubs if they could read these posts......well laughing stock comes to mind.........

there are a few key things on this thread

1.lack of even turning up to national day and commenting.
2.lack of going on track and commenting
3.lack of mis information or knowledge whichever ran out first
and a big one 4. lack of even going to the agm then having the barefaced cheek to comment on this thread regarding the club national day and it future!!!!!

a joke a bloody joke.:mad:

[Hoolio]

what a very dissapointing thread and so many points that i was going to reply on but tbh there are so many i wouldnt know were to start..........i have pm those who i have questions for in regards to comments........i await some replies.....i truely am sat here shaking my head out of dis belief of what utter drivel has been wrote,i would be ashamed to be associated with you if thats your view and im sure if other car forums and clubs if they could read these posts......well laughing stock comes to mind.........

there are a few key things on this thread

1.lack of even turning up to national day and commenting.
2.lack of going on track and commenting
3.lack of mis information or knowledge whichever ran out first
and a big one 4. lack of even going to the agm then having the barefaced cheek to comment on this thread regarding the club national day and it future!!!!!

a joke a bloody joke.:mad:

Well that's spoilt everyones fun :)

[warpspeed]

what a very dissapointing thread and so many points that i was going to reply on but tbh there are so many i wouldnt know were to start..........i have pm those who i have questions for in regards to comments........i await some replies.....i truely am sat here shaking my head out of dis belief of what utter drivel has been wrote,i would be ashamed to be associated with you if thats your view and im sure if other car forums and clubs if they could read these posts......well laughing stock comes to mind.........

there are a few key things on this thread

1.lack of even turning up to national day and commenting.
2.lack of going on track and commenting
3.lack of mis information or knowledge whichever ran out first
and a big one 4. lack of even going to the agm then having the barefaced cheek to comment on this thread regarding the club national day and it future!!!!!

a joke a bloody joke.:mad:

:agree:

[Big Steve - Raider]

You raise some very valid points their Jaffa! :niceone:

[djinuk]

Well since ive joined the club ive attended the nationals day, and i plan to do so, so no matter what happens ill be there, plus ill be pushing any friends with r5s to come.

Would it not be possible to not allow so many freelancers track time , but maybe advertise the nd somewhat as a spectator event for joe blogs to keep it financially viable.

I mean i wasnt on track as i didnt trust my 5 yet and im skint however i £20 for the full weekend, got to see track action, have a mouch around cars, camp , have a bqq, have a laugh with a few folks etc etc. It costs you £10 a night now just to camp on a farmers field so why not pay a bit more and have somthing to do and camp at mallory.

Im sure a lot of the retro rides lads and similar would be more than willing to pay he £20 for a bit of a beer fest and some action on track if only they were made aware of it, heck im sure you can still limit numbers to keep things in order.

[Mart]

there are a few key things on this thread

1.lack of even turning up to national day and commenting.
2.lack of going on track and commenting
3.lack of mis information or knowledge whichever ran out first
and a big one 4. lack of even going to the agm then having the barefaced cheek to comment on this thread regarding the club national day and it future!!!!!

:agree: The Jaff man speak'th the truth there.

The usual reliable suspects were at the AGM, but where was everyone else? There must've only been a third of the Committee present as well. Poor show all round... :(

[clee]

I had to go before the day had even started for family reasons so as Jaffa says it would be unfair for me to comment on the day as a whole .

I let the track ticket sales go this year to see how it all panned out .We had a few members buying more than a couple .....It would seem that the system will be abused if allowed :sad2:
I left the code open for multiple use as we do get some members buying for other members that for whatever reason don't have a shop account .
Next year we will limit it to one per member and one use discount code .Also I will not be sending out the track wristbands .They will be put on by a member of staff on the day after the briefing ( as per any normal trackday ) and we can then check membership etc

This will of course slow the whole day down which is one of the reasons why we left it a bit ' relaxed '

[tonesGTT]

Ok, so is it likely more people would attend the AGM if it wasnt at the end of the day when everyone is thinking about a journey home? If you're not camping the sat night which many dont, and you have a 3/4/5 hour drive home, you're not likely to want to go, are you? Has it been tried in the past to have it earlier in the day?

[clee]

AGM can go on a bit so the only other time would be the lunch break + some issues raised might then drag on through the day and spoil the fun .

[Penfold aka The Dealer]

Personally i feel the Nd should be for members only...

something like this

£85 for members to go on track
£35 for 2nd drivers (also a sticker on the car with wristband numbers on for people paid to drive it (could be an issue if people want to drive other people's cars...but most staff/committee know 90% of the members anyway so we will see who is abusing the cheap 2nd driver..
£5 for passanger laps...
£10 for camping..

With the extra income from 2nd drivers and higher rate for passenger wristbands will hopefully balance out non members on track...

Also means for those who want to bring mate's/partners along and trust them with your car on track you still can :agree:

[D4WNO]

I think this year was definitely a learning curve and quite a few things can be improved from our experience with the 2010 show.

It's unfortunate that not many turned up the the AGM but to be fair, maybe the newer members didn't know what it was all about and why we do it, so next year I'll make a point to encourage attendance of this. Regardnig committee attendance, it was low but to be fair, most of them had personal reasons for not being able to attend. I was surprised still at how few were there.

This kind of thread is great as we need to know exactly what the members think and some suggestions that have been made are actually excellent and will be discussed in detail later on the CM forum. I've personally got a few ideas too which I'll go into more detail on later when I have time. Keep the opinions and ideas coming though guys :agree:

[dangerous dave]

I had to go before the day had even started for family reasons so as Jaffa says it would be unfair for me to comment on the day as a whole .

I let the track ticket sales go this year to see how it all panned out .We had a few members buying more than a couple .....It would seem that the system will be abused if allowed :sad2:
I left the code open for multiple use as we do get some members buying for other members that for whatever reason don't have a shop account .
Next year we will limit it to one per member and one use discount code .Also I will not be sending out the track wristbands .They will be put on by a member of staff on the day after the briefing ( as per any normal trackday ) and we can then check membership etc

This will of course slow the whole day down which is one of the reasons why we left it a bit ' relaxed '

sounds like a plan, its a renault day, long term members bring a push bike for all i care, but these join it and get a cheap day is always a little cheeky.. i wasn't there as due to my car being in bits and my vans not all that sharp on the bends.. its not a crying shame that the moneys gone back into the pot via the non renault tag alongs, but would rather they stayed home..

buy the ticket - list the car entered, reg etc.. if its a string or mazdas, bmw's, hondas etc then refund them... if they all turn up claiming there 5's broken but there track ready mx5 was good to go, send them packing..

i had a mate asking to bring his none renault along to the pod, i said its a bit cheeky and only fair if he turned up and there were tickets on the day.. to sit there and round up all your mates, get them to join or buy up a batch of tickets seems abit low..

who were the guys buying up all the tickets then? i did run my eyes over the last few pages but must have missed it..

[shaggy]

sounds like a plan, its a renault day, long term members bring a push bike for all i care, but these join it and get a cheap day is always a little cheeky.. i wasn't there as due to my car being in bits and my vans not all that sharp on the bends.. its not a crying shame that the moneys gone back into the pot via the non renault tag alongs, but would rather they stayed home..

buy the ticket - list the car entered, reg etc.. if its a string or mazdas, bmw's, hondas etc then refund them... if they all turn up claiming there 5's broken but there track ready mx5 was good to go, send them packing..

i had a mate asking to bring his none renault along to the pod, i said its a bit cheeky and only fair if he turned up and there were tickets on the day.. to sit there and round up all your mates, get them to join or buy up a batch of tickets seems abit low..

who were the guys buying up all the tickets then? i did run my eyes over the last few pages but must have missed it..

I agree with you dave. renault turbos only :agree:

[jaffa]

I had to go before the day had even started for family reasons so as Jaffa says it would be unfair for me to comment on the day as a whole .

I let the track ticket sales go this year to see how it all panned out .We had a few members buying more than a couple .....It would seem that the system will be abused if allowed :sad2:
I left the code open for multiple use as we do get some members buying for other members that for whatever reason don't have a shop account .
Next year we will limit it to one per member and one use discount code .Also I will not be sending out the track wristbands .They will be put on by a member of staff on the day after the briefing ( as per any normal trackday ) and we can then check membership etc

This will of course slow the whole day down which is one of the reasons why we left it a bit ' relaxed '


i cannot and dont believe the majority of the active rtoc community with any sense including you lee believe that it is such a bloody issue by letting a few other type/model cars come along to the national day be they are members or not...its not as if a couple of hundred of saxos,fiestas,or cortina owners were on track this year or any other year leaving no room for all the "up for it" renault turbo owners.........in fact there was a lad from m3cutters with the 328 who attended who has posted in the general section and has been embraced by all the rtoc that have replied????

wtf is the problem why do people feel threatend by them?? or am i right in saying the ones that want to change the national day at mallory which is a "trackday" into a world series style procession... but is 6 hours long...are the very same ones that feel they are victims of some strangers coming to play in what they must think is there playground!!!!!

[rs250nut]

I agree with you dave. renault turbos only :agree:

Thats bollocks though, I dont have a gtt anymore but I still intent to stick around and attend various rtoc events, pod national day etc but I wont be allowed because I have a 328 and a Honda?

[dangerous dave]

i cannot and dont believe the majority of the active rtoc community with any sense including you lee believe that it is such a bloody issue by letting a few other type/model cars come along to the national day be they are members or not...its not as if a couple of hundred of saxos,fiestas,or cortina owners were on track this year or any other year leaving no room for all the "up for it" renault turbo owners.........in fact there was a lad from m3cutters with the 328 who attended who has posted in the general section and has been embraced by all the rtoc that have replied????

wtf is the problem why do people feel threatend by them?? or am i right in saying the ones that want to change the national day at mallory which is a "trackday" into a world series style procession... but is 6 hours long...are the very same ones that feel they are victims of some strangers coming to play in what they must think is there playground!!!!!


i see your point, but the clubs got Renault in the title and the line has to be drawn somewhere.. its can easily get out of hand and it'll be 106 gti owners, polo gtis etc taking over 50% of the places.. we always have the odd one but groups will have to be cut out.. the more other makes out there the less interested i am in going, if i want to blat about with every tom d1ck and harry i'd go on a propper track day.. i want to join in with a higher % of renaults and fingers crossed next year i'll turn up to more than the pod..

im pretty sure some other lads in the playground feel the same..

[dangerous dave]

Thats bollocks though, I dont have a gtt anymore but I still intent to stick around and attend various rtoc events, pod national day etc but I wont be allowed because I have a 328 and a Honda?

lots of people are in the club still that have had a 5, or 20 renault turbos.. they will always be welcome, its the join it and go racing crew that need the chop... yeah they can say they thought of buying one once, or there nan had one, my knees go weak over such beautiful storys, but im not buying and hopefully neither are they:)

i know someone will say where do you draw the line etc etc..

who knows.. :scratch:

i stuck my spoon in..:agree:

[Nick k]

I really wanted to attend the AGM this year :cry: but being strapped to a spine board was a small problem! Did anybody moan that i shut the track 18 mins early due to a slight issue with my clio?? Sorry about that :sad2:

As said earlier the brief was a joke, even the flag board shown in the briefing room was out of date and did'nt show all the flags being used. I heard something mid morning over the loud speakers saying please only overtake on the left!!

Afew knobs out on track again mentioned earlier and to add the dick head in the red 182 clio who undertook my brother( who has it on film if you want to name and shame the cliosport member on youtube!! ) and then me approaching and on the hairpin.

I agree with J8TRO's input :agree: and maybe mistakes made this year can be rectified for next year's Nats Day,

[car.crash]

a member should be allowed to bring whatever car they want as many have moved on but are still long serving members, bod, mart etc, BUT if somone has only joined purely to grab a ticket once a year and never post or contribute feck all then why should they be allowed in. if we have spare tickets and a members friend wants to come along and the comittee agree its ok then game on, but promoting it on the m3 forum and clio sport to get all of them to come is unfair as its our day that we pay for.

also the brief needs stiffening up and the black and blue flags need to come out.

[Steve]

Thanks Jaffa for defending us non renaults.
But it's the same for every club day if other makes didn't turn up it would fail, ala Penfolds coments.

Also the fingers pointing at mx5, is it the hairdresser image?

Because there were as many non renault turbo as renault turbo on track,

5 TURBO BLACK F298 OYR 3
CLIO BLACK L3 VOM 10
CLIO KP08 LMS 1
VX220 GREY RF03 XVS 2
M3 YELLOW M3 JYF 24
5 TURBO RED G143 CPH 9
RENAULT 16v BLUE ACE VEHICLE TRANS 2
CLIO WHITE H186 JBJ 13 INC SPIN
CLIO BURGUNDY M399 RPP 6
CLIO YELLOW K3 MGK 6
406 BURGUNDY R65 EVW 1
SCOOBY BLACK S843 VOR 3
CLIO RED HA55WELL 6
5 TURBO WHITE/RED ELF STICKERS 13
TWINGO L453 AVC 1
M3 BLUE YX52 VUV 9
5 TURBO BLACK F126 GFJ 2
CLIO BLACK KM54 VRV 3
9 TURBO RED 9 TURBO 2
CLIO LIME GREEN 1
5 TURBO BLUE F711 PJH 1
MEGANE BLACK BD06 EXP 5
MX5 RF06 TVO 4
SCOOBY BLUE L33 RJA 1
FOCUS BLUE RV53 WUX 2
FIESTA TURBO RED H79 CKX 1
M3 BLACK MW52 HSK 5
306 GREY P702 BPL 1
MK1 ESCORT BLUE WTT 351K 8
5 TURBO YELLOW F111 CFV 8
CLIO BLUE R13DYO 6
VX220 YELLOW FG02 ONK 1
5 TURBO RED NO 88 CUP 9
5 TURBO BLACK F396 STW 11 INC SPIN
MEGANE GREY HN58 XXR 4
CLIO BLUE BLIHTY 8
CLIO SILVER W286 MBF 2
FIESTA BLUE Y959 KMA 2
NISSAN RED ORANGE WHEELS 3
AUDI COUPE BLACK OIL 1
5 TURBO BLUE C11 GTT 5
PORCHE 911 BLACK 4
5 TURBO BLUE EMA B 15 INC SPIN
CLIO ORANGE BLACK LIGHTS 13
CLIO MK1 GREY WHITE WHEELS 1
SUPRA SILVER 3
5 TURBO BLUE D886 YHK 1
5 TURBO BLACK B2 GGT 1

:rolleyes:

If you have a register of all R5 turbos i'll be back with my reg no' when i dust off the photo cause i had it in 1988:p

[car.crash]

Thanks Jaffa for defending us non renaults.
But it's the same for every club day if other makes didn't turn up it would fail, ala Penfolds coments.

Also the fingers pointing at mx5, is it the hairdresser image?

Because there were as many non renault turbo as renault turbo on track,

:rolleyes:

its our national day for our members, not a javelin trackday! it wouldnt have failed if you lot didnt turn up as it happens every year and our membership covers it.

[jaffa]

Thanks Jaffa for defending us non renaults.
But it's the same for every club day if other makes didn't turn up it would fail, ala Penfolds coments.

Also the fingers pointing at mx5, is it the hairdresser image?

Because there were as many non renault turbo as renault turbo on track,

5 TURBO BLACK F298 OYR 3
CLIO BLACK L3 VOM 10
CLIO KP08 LMS 1
VX220 GREY RF03 XVS 2
M3 YELLOW M3 JYF 24
5 TURBO RED G143 CPH 9
RENAULT 16v BLUE ACE VEHICLE TRANS 2
CLIO WHITE H186 JBJ 13 INC SPIN
CLIO BURGUNDY M399 RPP 6
CLIO YELLOW K3 MGK 6
406 BURGUNDY R65 EVW 1
SCOOBY BLACK S843 VOR 3
CLIO RED HA55WELL 6
5 TURBO WHITE/RED ELF STICKERS 13
TWINGO L453 AVC 1
M3 BLUE YX52 VUV 9
5 TURBO BLACK F126 GFJ 2
CLIO BLACK KM54 VRV 3
9 TURBO RED 9 TURBO 2
CLIO LIME GREEN 1
5 TURBO BLUE F711 PJH 1
MEGANE BLACK BD06 EXP 5
MX5 RF06 TVO 4
SCOOBY BLUE L33 RJA 1
FOCUS BLUE RV53 WUX 2
FIESTA TURBO RED H79 CKX 1
M3 BLACK MW52 HSK 5
306 GREY P702 BPL 1
MK1 ESCORT BLUE WTT 351K 8
5 TURBO YELLOW F111 CFV 8
CLIO BLUE R13DYO 6
VX220 YELLOW FG02 ONK 1
5 TURBO RED NO 88 CUP 9
5 TURBO BLACK F396 STW 11 INC SPIN
MEGANE GREY HN58 XXR 4
CLIO BLUE BLIHTY 8
CLIO SILVER W286 MBF 2
FIESTA BLUE Y959 KMA 2
NISSAN RED ORANGE WHEELS 3
AUDI COUPE BLACK OIL 1
5 TURBO BLUE C11 GTT 5
PORCHE 911 BLACK 4
5 TURBO BLUE EMA B 15 INC SPIN
CLIO ORANGE BLACK LIGHTS 13
CLIO MK1 GREY WHITE WHEELS 1
SUPRA SILVER 3
5 TURBO BLUE D886 YHK 1
5 TURBO BLACK B2 GGT 1

:rolleyes:

If you have a register of all R5 turbos i'll be back with my reg no' when i dust off the photo cause i had it in 1988:p
c13 pwr-grey r5 turbo.. dont forget the members who are only a members of rtoc because they want 1 cheap trackday a year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! pmsl and that was from a guy that has posted over 1500 posts.....................!!!!!!:laugh: so he know everything.

[dangerous dave]

wow 18 non renaults... its worse than i thought..

carcrash, even the cliosport boys aren't that bad.. if we can't sell tickets here then id say other hot hatch renaults is the next choice to bulk up the ticket sales..

its the Renault turbo owners club National Day, for us renault turbo or non renault owners as were not gonna be that petty.. old members not rocking a renault get on board too as no one would brush them aside, i was there once..

but if were gonna let everyone else join it lets just jog on the rtoc National day title and call it what it is..

[jaffa]

i see your point, but the clubs got Renault in the title and the line has to be drawn somewhere.. its can easily get out of hand and it'll be 106 gti owners, polo gtis etc taking over 50% of the places.. we always have the odd one but groups will have to be cut out.. the more other makes out there the less interested i am in going, if i want to blat about with every tom d1ck and harry i'd go on a propper track day.. i want to join in with a higher % of renaults and fingers crossed next year i'll turn up to more than the pod..

im pretty sure some other lads in the playground feel the same..

yeah but u have just posted a comment on something that doesnt exist!!!!!:mad:
how the feck did u know who and what was gonna turn up for gods sake its your decision is made in advance weather your gonna track it or not surely???

[car.crash]

yeah but u have just posted a comment on something that doesnt exist!!!!!:mad:
how the feck did u know who and what was gonna turn up for gods sake its your decision is made in advance weather your gonna track it or not surely???

what would have happend if 20 people put their name down on the m3 forum?
would you have provided 20 tickets? and the same applies to foxy on the clio sport thread after he promoted it on there.
http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?p=275274
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?523760-Mallory-Park-14th-August-£80-(Open-Pit)&highlight=mallory

[DaveMayGTT]

what a very dissapointing thread and so many points that i was going to reply on but tbh there are so many i wouldnt know were to start..........i have pm those who i have questions for in regards to comments........i await some replies.....i truely am sat here shaking my head out of dis belief of what utter drivel has been wrote,i would be ashamed to be associated with you if thats your view and im sure if other car forums and clubs if they could read these posts......well laughing stock comes to mind.........

there are a few key things on this thread

1.lack of even turning up to national day and commenting.
2.lack of going on track and commenting
3.lack of mis information or knowledge whichever ran out first
and a big one 4. lack of even going to the agm then having the barefaced cheek to comment on this thread regarding the club national day and it future!!!!!

a joke a bloody joke.:mad:

Seeing as people who didn't attend were asked to comment about why then all your points are invalid?

[SP33DY]

Afew knobs out on track again mentioned earlier and to add the dick head in the red 182 clio who undertook my brother( who has it on film if you want to name and shame the cliosport member on youtube!! ) and then me approaching and on the hairpin.

Hmmmm, red clio 182, that sounds like me :) get the vid posted up for a laugh, just out of curiousity though if there was a vehicle behind wanting to get past why didn't you just pull over and let him past? Plenty of other people were quite happy to let me by there? and a word of advice you should be very carefull who you call a dick head on a public forum as some people might take offence to it ;)

[jaffa]

what would have happend if 20 people put their name down on the m3 forum?
would you have provided 20 tickets? and the same applies to foxy on the clio sport thread after he promoted it on there.
http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?p=275274
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?523760-Mallory-Park-14th-August-£80-(Open-Pit)&highlight=mallory


it was mangaged by me simple...for the benefit of the rtoc thats what i call getting off my ass and doin something productive for the club.sorry i cant see it any other way.

[JRP]

Hmmmm, red clio 182, that sounds like me :) get the vid posted up for a laugh, just out of curiousity though if there was a vehicle behind wanting to get past why didn't you just pull over and let him past? Plenty of other people were quite happy to let me by there? and a word of advice you should be very carefull who you call a dick head on a public forum as some people might take offence to it ;)

Have you taken offence? can i offend you or should i be scared:laugh: no need for little pokey digs/threats... that offends me btw :laugh::dearme:

[jaffa]

Seeing as people who didn't attend were asked to comment about why then all your points are invalid?

to be fair to the guy that started the thread i think this was a mistake on his behalf in the title and im sure he wasnt expecting it to go how it has...........call it an hijack.

[Nick k]

Hmmmm, red clio 182, that sounds like me :) get the vid posted up for a laugh, just out of curiousity though if there was a vehicle behind wanting to get past why didn't you just pull over and let him past? Plenty of other people were quite happy to let me by there? and a word of advice you should be very carefull who you call a dick head on a public forum as some people might take offence to it ;)

Ok i will put the video online so other can call you the same ( If it was you of course ) as it had nothing to do with moving over when in the braking zone approaching the hairpin!! Don't remember this kind of problem being a issue over the last few years of Nats Days but i suspect the people in question don't actually give i **** as its not there club members there pissing off!

[jaffa]

I really wanted to attend the AGM this year :cry: but being strapped to a spine board was a small problem! Did anybody moan that i shut the track 18 mins early due to a slight issue with my clio?? Sorry about that :sad2:

As said earlier the brief was a joke, even the flag board shown in the briefing room was out of date and did'nt show all the flags being used. I heard something mid morning over the loud speakers saying please only overtake on the left!!

Afew knobs out on track again mentioned earlier and to add the dick head in the red 182 clio who undertook my brother( who has it on film if you want to name and shame the cliosport member on youtube!! ) and then me approaching and on the hairpin.

I agree with J8TRO's input :agree: and maybe mistakes made this year can be rectified for next year's Nats Day,

mistakes will be made..........but to be honest if i under took anyone and yeah i did it was 100% intensional cause i had good reason to...the times i backed off on the corners to wait for the straights the cars in question wanted to "race" me along the straights??? fair play??? yeah.i loved it.....if a driver is acting a bit of a pillock all of the time ie in my opinion the lad in the renault 19 early on and the lad in the escort(trying to drift).......there the ones we should be mentioning.......but not a word??? i dont think its a proper issue having spoken to the mushroom racing lad who is a prof driver and spent a lot of time on track for every national day at mallory he says and i quote"the standard of driving is very good and gets better every year"...this statement is also supported by the staff at mallory park.

[warpspeed]

Thanks Jaffa for defending us non renaults.
But it's the same for every club day if other makes didn't turn up it would fail, ala Penfolds coments.

Also the fingers pointing at mx5, is it the hairdresser image?

Because there were as many non renault turbo as renault turbo on track,

5 TURBO BLACK F298 OYR 3
CLIO BLACK L3 VOM 10
CLIO KP08 LMS 1
VX220 GREY RF03 XVS 2
M3 YELLOW M3 JYF 24
5 TURBO RED G143 CPH 9
RENAULT 16v BLUE ACE VEHICLE TRANS 2
CLIO WHITE H186 JBJ 13 INC SPIN
CLIO BURGUNDY M399 RPP 6
CLIO YELLOW K3 MGK 6
406 BURGUNDY R65 EVW 1
SCOOBY BLACK S843 VOR 3
CLIO RED HA55WELL 6
5 TURBO WHITE/RED ELF STICKERS 13
TWINGO L453 AVC 1
M3 BLUE YX52 VUV 9
5 TURBO BLACK F126 GFJ 2
CLIO BLACK KM54 VRV 3
9 TURBO RED 9 TURBO 2
CLIO LIME GREEN 1
5 TURBO BLUE F711 PJH 1
MEGANE BLACK BD06 EXP 5
MX5 RF06 TVO 4
SCOOBY BLUE L33 RJA 1
FOCUS BLUE RV53 WUX 2
FIESTA TURBO RED H79 CKX 1
M3 BLACK MW52 HSK 5
306 GREY P702 BPL 1
MK1 ESCORT BLUE WTT 351K 8
5 TURBO YELLOW F111 CFV 8
CLIO BLUE R13DYO 6
VX220 YELLOW FG02 ONK 1
5 TURBO RED NO 88 CUP 9
5 TURBO BLACK F396 STW 11 INC SPIN
MEGANE GREY HN58 XXR 4
CLIO BLUE BLIHTY 8
CLIO SILVER W286 MBF 2
FIESTA BLUE Y959 KMA 2
NISSAN RED ORANGE WHEELS 3
AUDI COUPE BLACK OIL 1
5 TURBO BLUE C11 GTT 5
PORCHE 911 BLACK 4
5 TURBO BLUE EMA B 15 INC SPIN
CLIO ORANGE BLACK LIGHTS 13
CLIO MK1 GREY WHITE WHEELS 1
SUPRA SILVER 3
5 TURBO BLUE D886 YHK 1
5 TURBO BLACK B2 GGT 1

:rolleyes:

If you have a register of all R5 turbos i'll be back with my reg no' when i dust off the photo cause i had it in 1988:p

Excuse me if i'm being a bit slow here but what is the last number on the end of each line for? i.e. clio orange black lights 13, what's the 13 mean?

[Nick k]

The position they finished in the race :laugh:

[jaffa]

The position they finished in the race :laugh:

pmsl :laugh:


i think its there band number.

[Mart]

just out of curiousity though if there was a vehicle behind wanting to get past why didn't you just pull over and let him past?

Yeah, why didn't you? :D I followed you for a good half a lap or so, before your car started misfiring & you decided to pull over on the back straight ;)

:p

[Nick k]

pmsl :laugh:


i think its there band number.

Its the amount of pictures the guy with the camera got of that vehicle ;)

[JRP]

FECK IT... i actualy think it was a cracking turn out even the rain didnt dampen my day :)

Lets discuss the mallory park wasp problem...

They need exterminating in some wasp gasing.... i'll be ready for them!

Can RToc invest in some anti wasp stuff ?

[rs250nut]

I think you guys need to quit bitching, you sound like a bunch of women. So what if its not all renault turbos. If your driving like a ****er fair play fcuk off, concentrate on the driving experiance.

[jaffa]

Its the amount of pictures the guy with the camera got of that vehicle ;)


theres always one brainy boots........thats clever clogs to u...:)

[SP33DY]

TBH Nick I'm not sure it was me, but I was the only red clio 182 trophy out there, there was a orange cup race car as well but that was pretty much it clio 182 wise.

If I did offend you then apologies, I did whizz past a few cars there once but it was more because I'd flew through the chicane and was carrying so much speed that I didn't think I'd be able to stop behind the cars ahead. As you well know people make mistakes.

Oi Mart that was the first session (of my first trackday) and I was that nervous I definatley didn't check my mirrors enough LOL but again apologies. :cooter:

[Nick k]

Yeah, why didn't you? :D I followed you for a good half a lap or so, before your car started misfiring & you decided to pull over on the back straight ;)

:p

I was proberly looking at the boost gauge thinking 20 psi !! im sure thats too much, then it blow off a boost hose!!!

[Mart]

Oi Mart that was the first session (of my first trackday) and I was that nervous I definatley didn't check my mirrors enough LOL but again apologies. :cooter:

Just joshing with you mate :) It's all good :cool:

[warpspeed]

I have never attended any ND's in a renault and probably won't for a few years yet as i have just decided to sell my 5 to concentrate on other projects.
I will have a 5 again but i just don't have the time and space to build mine the way i want it.

Is anybody unhappy that i don't bring a renault since i've not been a member for years, just the 3 years? If they are then i won't bring my nissan or whatever to ND or any other events for that matter.

I joined RTOC because i was friends with Miller and Emma and joined them on a trip to the nurburgring arranged through the club, i was really impressed by how friendly everybody was and also the team spirit that was there in spades, i'll never forget everybody on the hunt for springs to try and help Logg fix his actuator at a motorway filling station! I then joined just before ND 08, i have since attended ND 09, ND 10, POD 08 and world series 09.

Am i to be discriminated against because i don't bring a renault to the party?

Not in my experience, i been made to feel very welcome and a part of the club by everybody i have actually spoken to face to face, seems to me that if the mx5 or bmw guys or whoever turns up without a renault were to camp on the fri/sat or both alongside the rest of us and wander round meeting everybody and have a few beers that they would also receive the same warm welcome that i have and nobody would be moaning about them?

provided that non-renaults didn't take over the event should we not just be trying to sort out the mashalling/drving standards and making future ND's better for everybody?

[dangerous dave]

I think you guys need to quit bitching, you sound like a bunch of women. So what if its not all renault turbos. If your driving like a ****er fair play fcuk off, concentrate on the driving experiance.

if its a rtoc national day it renaults..

if its a track day for anyone run by the rtoc thats fine, just call it a track day, or link it up with other clubs on the flyers etc so its a propper event..

i'll carry on, i pay my money and i want renault only days.. your moving away from them and want to keep your foot in the door for the unlimited run no Q at the pod and cheap track days.. funny that:) like i say, old members join in, ex renault turbo owner etc join in.. its more than just about the cars etc.. just highlight that for warpspeed above, friends etc are more important that what car etc, but lets stamp out the post it on any other forum and some randoms in.. im sure there nice people, and im sure we'll all get along, but more renaults at the next one..

its a renault day, for renaults..

if we want to do a joint effort with other clubs why not, but on the Renault turbo owners club national day it would be nice to stick to the guide line thats in the title.. :)

[warpspeed]

Its the amount of pictures the guy with the camera got of that vehicle ;)

If that's the case then where's the 3 pics of my cool sunny with the orange wheels?!!!! :laugh:

[warpspeed]

The position they finished in the race :laugh:

Nah i like this one better! It means i came third!!!!:yeah::scratch:

[rs250nut]

[quote=dangerous dave;172926]if its a rtoc national day it renaults..

if its a track day for anyone run by the rtoc thats fine, just call it a track day, or link it up with other clubs on the flyers etc so its a propper event..

i'll carry on, i pay my money and i want renault only days.. your moving away from them and want to keep your foot in the door for the unlimited run no Q at the pod and cheap track days.. funny that:)

Funny how you have you edit your post, scarcastic smiley face:) I want to keep my foot in the door? Just because im not in the position to keep three to four cars at the moment why does that mean im moving away from them? Plenty of members on here that dont have renault turbos anymore, go and tell them the same. I have attended the last two pod days and would have attended more meeting etc only if I had the time, this year at pod I made the journey up to meet up with old friends etc and have a fcuking good piss up not to make good use of the track? :rolleyes:

[jesus in the seat of a 5]

I think you guys need to quit bitching, you sound like a bunch of women. So what if its not all renault turbos. If your driving like a ****er fair play fcuk off, concentrate on the driving experiance.

:agree:, more rtoc gold..:laugh:, to be honest id love to see more 5`s out on track and less of these other excuses for 5`s...:wasntme:..;) but if our members dont turn up , let alone go out on track etc, what do we expect, i must admit , perhaphs we need to provide more in the way of traders etc, maybe more alternatives, anything that might make it more than just a meet /out and out track day, then maybe more members would turn out...:scratch:, hmm tricky one really, just my thoughts really.
All this , you should of moved over for me, i was pissing past you etc though is feckin hilarious...:D...:dearme:..:bored:

[dangerous dave]

[quote=dangerous dave;172926]if its a rtoc national day it renaults..

if its a track day for anyone run by the rtoc thats fine, just call it a track day, or link it up with other clubs on the flyers etc so its a propper event..

i'll carry on, i pay my money and i want renault only days.. your moving away from them and want to keep your foot in the door for the unlimited run no Q at the pod and cheap track days.. funny that:)

Funny how you have you edit your post, scarcastic smiley face:) I want to keep my foot in the door? Just because im not in the position to keep three to four cars at the moment why does that mean im moving away from them? Plenty of members on here that dont have renault turbos anymore, go and tell them the same. I have attended the last two pod days and would have attended more meeting etc only if I had the time, this year at pod I made the journey up to meet up with old friends etc and have a fcuking good piss up not to make good use of the track? :rolleyes:

it wasn't that funny...

to be honest with you when dale set up the rtoc curry meet over here in Reading i was a little cheesed off when adam turned up in his s15 and dawn didn't even have a renault.. but i sat through it and had a good time while my p1ss boiled..

i know its about friends and having a good time etc, thats why i go, but its renaults that bring us together..

you can never get your point across on here without sounding like your having a massive pop at someone, there just words on a screen getting bashed out.. if we were all down the pub im pretty sure everyone would have a chat, agree to disagree and get on with the evening without feeling shat on..

[JimGTT]

Excuse me if i'm being a bit slow here but what is the last number on the end of each line for? i.e. clio orange black lights 13, what's the 13 mean?

This is from my thread ref pictures my old man took, the numbers are how many he took and there is also more than what is listed:D

[Tony Walker]

I dont think its down to the cars being driven, its down to the members who are there. Do we not let a renault 5 on there because its not a renault 5 gt turbo???
Sometimes this site does have problems of being a gtt only club, eg megane 225 owners, the club does need to move on to continue gaining members otherwise it will just slowly die.
The RTOC national day imo (even tho i am sorry to say i have not been able to attend one yet) or any other club day even is for members like minded who have either past present or future want to own a 5 can get together meet each other and have a good time. Preferably as many renault turbos there as possible but at the end of the day if you are a member and have been for some time its just an occasion to meet the people we all talk to each day/night on this website. National day should be for members who have been involved and even there friends and family, maybe a limit to each member on there friends coming along. But i think people who have recently joined do have something to prove before being allowed on track. Maybe a ban on non renault turbo new members on the track but they can still attend the national day to meet fellow members? In that case if the track is quiet these members who have travelled potentially not going on track will have proved there willingness to be involved and could maybe get some track allowance?

[rs250nut]

[quote=rs250nut;172932]

it wasn't that funny...

to be honest with you when dale set up the rtoc curry meet over here in Reading i was a little cheesed off when adam turned up in his s15 and dawn didn't even have a renault.. but i sat through it and had a good time while my p1ss boiled..

i know its about friends and having a good time etc, thats why i go, but its renaults that bring us together..

you can never get your point across on here without sounding like your having a massive pop at someone, there just words on a screen getting bashed out.. if we were all down the pub im pretty sure everyone would have a chat, agree to disagree and get on with the evening without feeling shat on..


No its was not funny hence my reply after your sarcastic post, you piss boiled because not everyone turned up in a renault turbo? Even when I had a five on the road chances are I would have still driven the bm as the five has always been a second car. Chill out with the angry bull$hit

[Hoolio]

So you pay your twenty five quid to be a member and are then denied access to club stuff, not goong to work.

[Lomo]

:eek: Wow...National Day was to bring us together! :scratch:

Some really good points made and some not so good! Its a very thin line trying to keep everyone happy but perhaps a little more can be done to help the case somewhat..

When we arrived on the Saturday morning my bands weren't checked once. I actually said to the missus we could have got in without them!!!:sad2: Ok I know Im a scouser but I'm being serious! ;)..Not one check..I could of got in without paying!! I was kinda shocked! 2 years ago we actually had one of the funniest episodes standing on the gate checking bands etc..Aint that right Jaffa & Robbo! ;).. I realize people have the day to enjoy as well but if you are part of the organising team then Im afraid its one of the jobs you need to do.
With regards to track, and ok I haven't been on Mallory but thats because the Clio would kill me in the wet and Jesus needed a gearbox, would it be at all possible to split the cars in to categories? For example, GTTurbos out for one session or cars of a similar stature, then progress through out the morning leaving the afternoon free for everyone to race it out? just an idea?
Also, a membership card needs to be shown along with the tickets on the gate. If the car doesn't have a membership car it isn't getting in regardless of whether it has tickets or not!
Another option: Could we not perhaps shut the gates after a certain time? Gates closed although if you have a valid reason for not making it on time then at least phone a member of the 'committee' to sort things out?

Just some ideas to add to the mix..:)

[RoboEK]

I was at Nat day so hopefully i can comment on this without getting flamed (except for my spelling) I would of liked to go to the AGM but wasnt aware it was open to non commity members or where it was being held, after the group photo every one just split, i think it would be a better idea to have it mid day next year so more can attend and maby make it so you have to show your membership card to get in?

As for the "overcrowding from other brand cars debate" i honsty dont care what people turn up in as long as its in spirit with the event, in a ideal world every car there would be a Renault turbo or from the sport range, but thats just not realistic, life gets in the way (i should know i had to sell my old 5 to buy a "Family car") but as long as every one there understands that its a renault day and is willing to come and have a chat then the more the merrier. i go to jap fest every year yet i drive a French car and a German van.

I had fun this year at Nat day and will definatly be attending next year whether its in a Renault or not.

[Tony Walker]

So you pay your twenty five quid to be a member and are then denied access to club stuff, not goong to work.

Only if they where a new member not owning a renault turbo. Maybe a discount to the next years nd could be offered by that time hopefully they will own a renault turbo :D

[f0xy]

mistakes will be made..........but to be honest if i under took anyone and yeah i did it was 100% intensional cause i had good reason to...the times i backed off on the corners to wait for the straights the cars in question wanted to "race" me along the straights??? fair play??? yeah.i loved it.....if a driver is acting a bit of a pillock all of the time ie in my opinion the lad in the renault 19 early on and the lad in the escort(trying to drift).......there the ones we should be mentioning.......but not a word??? i dont think its a proper issue having spoken to the mushroom racing lad who is a prof driver and spent a lot of time on track for every national day at mallory he says and i quote"the standard of driving is very good and gets better every year"...this statement is also supported by the staff at mallory park.

To be honest I agree. I came in 2009, and was there this year - on track both times and well worth it. Even though the weather was worse this year, the driving standard from everyone was far better IMO.

I signed up before ND2009, just for the day and I'm not bothered to about admitting it. Reason being I know quite a few people off here very well and that's how I heard about the day in the first place - word of mouth goes a long way. If you are wanting to stop non-members/non-renaults coming you should have a manual booking system or some sort of manual verification - where a committee member has to be contacted for the ticket and approved or whatever, as you won't stop people just signing up on their own and buying through a shop - then just turning up on the day...

I didnt have one complaint about the whole weekend, both years - seemed well organized beforehand and on the day. Yes the briefing was 'brief', but it was the same last year so I knew what it was going to be like. Yeah it could be better, but the majority of people going on track (bar the few newcomers) will have enough common sense from previous track days to know the rules. Id say the only reason it has to be more in depth is for the new people.

With regards to checking wristbands and the general organization on the day I didn't have any gripes either. My wristband was actually checked a few times by the lad stood next to the armco on the exit of the paddock, other times it wasnt - but hey ho. If the driver does not have a wristband then its their own risk really IMO - as if they crash or become seriously injured there will be no next of kin record to match it up to from when they signed the form and had the number put on their band...

Ive read the whole thread but didn't actually see a figure of how many 'very active' RTOC members were on track? If it were only those on track there surely be a significant loss to the club - yes it may be 'ok' to make a loss but wouldn't the club benefit in the long run from having more cash in the account for other events? IMO it would..

Some of the stuff posted in here I could not believe - but everyone has their own opinion and thats that. Ive been on to trackdays in the past where the morning has been 20min sessioned with novices and advanced, then the afternoon full open pit - which worked well and kept the day moving - may be an idea worth considering if people are bothered about having a session for newcomers. I saw my name mentioned a few pages back regarding posting it on CS too - if the committee didn't want the day being advertised elsewhere it should have been said when the ND details were first posted in the original thread - IMO of course. Although, I don't know how many cars it would have stopped coming, as the three people I was with came in 2009 too, so they were already members on here and knew about the 2010 day anyway.

I saw a comment also about people feeling that the more 'advanced' drivers are getting pi**ed off with the novices going slow - but to be honest it is not AT ALL like that (Unless the advanced driver is a complete d*ckhead). With the amount of track days I've done you have to accept that new people are always going to be there - just like when you come across L platers on the road. There is no point getting silly, ranting and raving that you were being held up as it wont get you anywhere - its just about the patience and then passing safely. Im sure all the regular track day goers will agree with me on that.

If there is a majority of members bothered about the 'track day' being over populated with 'non active members', maybe the ND should be something else in the year and then RTOC have their own organized track day where other cars can come without anyone being bothered - the club could make a lot of money from something like Mallory hosting it as their own track day, especially if the ticket prices were upped. You could get away with another £70 on top of the price if not more and still have a lot of people turn up mid summer.

[Miller]

After spending most of the night reading and replying to this thread these are the only relevant points I have taken from it. There has also been a lot said that is just rubbish with people saying things that are not even true.


Briefing
This year the briefing was given by a new member of staff who was standing in for the normal person, as he was on his honeymoon. The briefing was short but he did explain all the flags and he did say to only overtake on the left. It was very basic but to the point, normal the briefing is more detailed and I am sure if we go back to Mallory park then it will be back to normal standards.

Marshals
For next year I can say to Mallory that we want them to come down hard on every mistake, but I think this will then cause the same topic to arise but in reverse saying they were to strict so it is lose lose situation for me. You need to remember these guys are doing these 6 days a week……maybe the reason they were not using the flags much was because they thought the standard of driving was good? I have spoken to Mallory this week and was told by john ward (managing director) that his staff was very happy with the driving standard considering the level of experience we have.

John has always briefed the staff that the majority of drivers are new to track days so the marshals knew to be more on the ball. I was also approached by mike at mushroom racing (old prima cars) at midday and he commented on how good the standards of driving were and each year it has been getting better. Mike organises trackdays and does instructor work so I would say he knows what he is talking about. I was only asked to deal with one driver on the day about erratic behaviour. Penfold can I ask what time that picture was taken at?

Track sign on
This year we only had 96 people sign on after the drivers briefing and last year we had 115 people. So why is it, this years ND was too busy but last year it was not a problem? Remember last year we had to do the briefing outside as so many people were there. Do you not just think that people were a bit more paranoid about the condition and that is what has made you think it is busier because you were more aware of people around you?
Mallory do not normally have this many people signed on for a track day but as we charge so little for the privilege then most people are happy to go out for a few laps then come in, if they were to pay more they would want to be out every minute possible.

Wristbands
As clee has said next year we will issue the wristband on the day so you will need to bring your shop invoice with you (details still to be sorted out). I would like to add this year I was checking wristbands from 9 - 10:30 but I do not think this should be necessary as we are supposed to be a club of friends. If people believe that we have such scum within the club that requires us to monitor every wristband then we can get this staffed for the full day. I was very disappointed to hear in the morning from mike (mushroom racing) that he had overheard people were discussing how they were going to swap bands and this was why I did the checks in the morning.

Non members
The reason so many non-members were at this years ND is the club members fault, we restricted tickets to members only for the first three months then we open it up to all. At the point that non-members could then buy tickets it was very disappointing at the miserable amount of tickets that had been bought by club members.

Without the non members attending our event we would not be able to recoup the money we have, I know the club is a non profit making organisation but for the last three years we have been able to keep a excellent financial balance, as after ND we have had the funds to pay for the next years ND and pod day (around £13,000). So if we never got this extra money then each year we would get closer to financial ruin.

What people seem to forget, the club pays for more than just ND and pod. We have website costs, advertising costs, club merchandise and also parts for the shop (that we do not make profit on as it’s a service we offer members). So everyone needs to remember that if we start to make massive losses at these days the club will not be able to offer what it does. These are the only two events during the year that we can make some money back.


We have three options with non-members buying tickets that that is as follows:

Do not allow any non-members? See above
Only allow them on in the afternoon? We tried this in the past and we sold no advance tickets and made larger losses.
Keep it to the same as what we have done but maybe restrict sales to non-members till June instead of May.
I would like to add that we have always had non-members price £25 more than the membership price. Maybe we need to have it only £20 more so they do not join for the cheap track day and each year if they insist on coming back they will pay the full non-member price?

Beginner’s laps
The only sensible idea we have had about beginners that will not require massive amount of organisation on the day. Has been for the first hour to be beginners only, I think this is a good idea but I would like you “the members” to come up with the criteria of what a beginner is……is it people who have done less than 1, 2, 3, 4 , 5, 6 etc track days? As Emma has now done 6 track days and she would still class herself as a beginner but other people in the field might find her to be too experienced? The only problem I see with this is people will not want to say they are beginners as their ego will take over so it might just be a waste of time.

Pricing
We have always kept prices low for ND and I think if we increase the prices the event would get even less people coming to it. The main reason for this is to allow people who would not normally attend a track day to dip their toe in the water. It has always been the same, the club has had between 800-1200 members and the numbers at ND have always been around 200-300. As Andy has pointed out how do we go about sorting this or do we just need to face the realty that it’s only ever going to be the core members that turn up to ND?

Do you think if we made the gate entrance less or even free it would make any difference?

Renaults & Non-Renault cars
I think I am not alone with this opinion but the day will always have non-Renaults at our ND no matter what type of day or venue is. A large number of club members do not own the car they first joined the club with and have now moved on to pastures new. But they still stay and support the club by attending events to see friends, therefore it would be unfair to shut the door on these people. I know one day I will not own a Renault but I will still attend events to see the people I have became good fiends with.

ND Venue 2011
I will be asking the members in a separate thread to suggest possible venues that are located in central UK, so Scotland and the south of England are out the window. I will call the suggested venues for price, availability and their on site facilities regarding camping.

If I have missed any points then just say and I will reply to it.

Regards and goodnight.
Chris

[jaffa]

:agree: all worthwhile points covered,and hopefully this will bring closure to the subject bring on national day 2011 and lets hope its at mallory it gets my vote.:)

[jaffa]

pmsl shhhh miller dont say who the warning for erratic driving was given to....it could destroy that persons repuation.;)

[5teve L]

I think the main issue with 'other cars' was with the people that either joined just for a cheap track day (takes the p1ss TBH) or other people that abused the ticket sales by buying bulk. I understand the club needs to try to recoup some costs but it is supposed to be RTOC national day & NOT just another track day.

RE; the beginners.
Maybe people that haven't had any track experience & people that feel they need to be classed as a beginner should go on for an hour.

As for no events up north or down south it's understandable, but in my other hobby we travel all round the country & camp or stay in travel lodges for the weekend to attend, so no reason why people couldn't do the same if the venue was good enough & holds interest...
As was said before, is Mallory going to get a bit stale ala Pod did for Nat day, or is it because we have the best of both worlds now with both of the events in the year & this maybe splits the members to either event a little ??

[warpspeed]

Well we could hire Knockhill for one day, ban non-members or members who have joined just for the ND and have it purely for renault owners.

Knockhill is cheap enough that if the same number of renault owners that were at Mallory were to arrive the club would probably make a healthy profit.

Question is how many would turn up? very few i would imagine!

We can't have our cake and eat it, if we want an event at a proper track with camping etc then we need to get more people in to financially allow it to run year after year, IMO.

[HAndy]

open the gates to renault sports clubs, there just isn't enough rtoc members interested in any of the events that are organised:( which shows in the numbers of turbo cars at events, and as said in one of the above pages ,renault have not produced any real large number of new turbo cars to keep the club moving in this direction, and ive said before in another posting there is enough diversity in this club to interest most renault fans, cant see what a few more sections involving 182,172, valvers ,williams , 19's,meganes,is going to hurt,plus it would be nice to see a better mix of renault cars on track etc,and there are quite a few supercharged and throttlebodied clio's and the like on the streets ,which would make for good fun at track events, that way we would not have to taut tickets outside of the club and stop anybody turning up in allsorts looking for a cheap day out!!keep it renault only.

my 5 pence worth again, and before anyone says where were you on national day, i was still busy working on the beast so i can at least bring it to one event this year:cry:

[Mart]

and before anyone says where were you on national day, i was still busy working on the beast so i can at least bring it to one event this year

:laugh:

That's club support & committment for ya. Right there.

:coffee:

[Mart]

Chris, do you think a hill-climb/time trial type event is a feasible option for year's ND?

As said before, I think Mallory ticks all the boxes, but if it's cheaper to 'hire' a hill-climb track, that could potentially be made an rtoc-only event, and in the least silence those that are grumbling about non-rtoc'ers being at our ND.

I'm just thinking, we've done Pod, we've done trackdays; maybe it might be worth looking into something different?

Heck, even Andy could sort the 'Rainbow Warrior' in time (maybe) to show us how it's done properly :agree:

[jaffa]

Chris, do you think a hill-climb/time trial type event is a feasible option for year's ND?

As said before, I think Mallory ticks all the boxes, but if it's cheaper to 'hire' a hill-climb track, that could potentially be made an rtoc-only event, and in the least silence those that are grumbling about non-rtoc'ers being at our ND.


I'm just thinking, we've done Pod, we've done trackdays; maybe it might be worth looking into something different?

Heck, even Andy could sort the 'Rainbow Warrior' in time (maybe) to show us how it's done properly :agree:

that sounds like a winner i vote for national day up the hill in scarborough...will make for an interesting eve event :agree:

:laugh:

[Miller]

Chris, do you think a hill-climb/time trial type event is a feasible option for year's ND?

As said before, I think Mallory ticks all the boxes, but if it's cheaper to 'hire' a hill-climb track, that could potentially be made an rtoc-only event, and in the least silence those that are grumbling about non-rtoc'ers being at our ND.

I'm just thinking, we've done Pod, we've done trackdays; maybe it might be worth looking into something different?

Heck, even Andy could sort the 'Rainbow Warrior' in time (maybe) to show us how it's done properly :agree:


Yes it can be done, would we need a racing licence for us to time the runs?......i am sure Andy would know?

I will start the thread for venue suggestions now:)

Chris

[Alastair]

Chris, do you think a hill-climb/time trial type event is a feasible option for year's ND?

As said before, I think Mallory ticks all the boxes, but if it's cheaper to 'hire' a hill-climb track, that could potentially be made an rtoc-only event, and in the least silence those that are grumbling about non-rtoc'ers being at our ND.

I'm just thinking, we've done Pod, we've done trackdays; maybe it might be worth looking into something different?

Heck, even Andy could sort the 'Rainbow Warrior' in time (maybe) to show us how it's done properly :agree:

Your not invisible for once Mart;)

Hill climb sounds really really good :agree::agree::agree: but i doubt we would be able to do any timed runs due to MSA regulations and insurance?

If insurance turns out to not be a problem then a sprint type afternoon at Mallory / another airfield event (Cloerne near Bristol is cheap but no camping) would also be good, somthing like: open pit track all AM, and 30 second starts for a sprint event for an hour or two in the afternoon, and also use the straight for some 1/4 mile (ish) or 0-60 runs for another hour? That would take a fair bit of organising for timing gear etc but would add an extra dimention to it, and keep everyone happy. Wasn;t the Brunters day run in this sort of format?

I like the sound of the rainbow warrior getting fixed - not seen it in the flesh for years! Any update Andy?

Gutted I couldn't make it this year, back to the UK in Mid Sept. I will be there next year though, and happy to help out anyone with organising the event or doing some marshalling on the day if required for a competetive part - just PM me. :agree:

Mart - did you sell Whitey yet?

[MFaulks]

I’ve come to this thread late, and have read it pretty much in its entirety. I didn’t manage to make the day, and so can’t directly comment. However, I fully agree from listening here that the collection only of the bands sounds like a must, and I would be happy to commit to help giving some time to do this, as I’m not going to miss next year! This year I had full tickets for 3 drivers – 3 cars had been planned, and one of those for a chap from a French 5 turbo club and he was going to drive over. In the end for me, the GTA suffered on the rolling road session the previous Friday and as a consequence the cars didn’t go :cry:.

Anyway, I think the great thing about this club is the level of involvement and passion it generates. All opinion is good, as it’s the impetus to keep momentum. I’ve been a member here a couple of years, never had a 5, and don’t actually official have a Renault turbo to my name, so had I made it I was planning on having a friends said project GTA turbo and a track Fiat X19, which is mine.

The day does need to make money for the club, it should not be setup or accepted to make a loss, otherwise, it will suffer in the long run inevitably. I put together a Rolling Road day for the RAOC members recently, and having committed to the day and rental of the facility, had to pay, but the result was of the 6 or 7 people who said they would come, only one turned up and another by proxy as I took the car myself. Net result do you think I will do it again – nope I think not :disagree:, and the RAOC club is and will lose out. So it is very difficult to get these things right, and clearly I hadn’t albeit a much much smaller thing.

Morning session sounds great as that would suit me :agree:. My question would be do we have members who are experienced and willing to give training / tuition sessions in the first session i.e these get booked and paid? I would be up for booking in for a teach-in, as I could do with all the help I can get :laugh:

[Mart]

Al', if you're referring to personal car insurance, that's null & void as soon as you put a wheel on track (unless, of course, you have specific track cover), so I can't see any problem as far as hill-climbing/sprinting goes - Everyone simply signs a form on the day knowing full well that if they bin their car, it's down to them & only them; ie, nothing to do with RTOC, nothing to do with the hill-climb venue/management there, etc etc.

If that's all agreed, and everyone's aware of their insurance being null & void, we should be able to time the cars running.

Andy, can you confirm if that's the case?

Yep, Whitey's gone to pastures new of the Hungarian flavour.

[jaffa]

this is all well and good as long as at the end of the day there are many hands to make sure things are managed properly ie all of the commitee working most of the day.......the hill climb is a good idea and i will support it but it seems to me that we would have to surely provide all of the staff,marshalls,ambulance,liability insurance,cost of the venue,camping, etc etc....i dunno??

now somewhere like harewood would be a winner first of all....

1,its 10 miles from me
2,plenty camping
3,excellent facilities
4,perfect viewing
5,pub round the corner
6,curry house round the corner
7,self contained ie shut the gates noone gets in
8,got some contacts...there...i can see it now....looks good.:agree:

[Mart]

In that respect, it's no different to Mallory though; ie, the price we paid for hiring the track for the day must've included marshalls, ambulance/medical centre staff, some form of liability insurance, etc as well.

[Andrew Cooke]

Al', if you're referring to personal car insurance, that's null & void as soon as you put a wheel on track (unless, of course, you have specific track cover), so I can't see any problem as far as hill-climbing/sprinting goes - Everyone simply signs a form on the day knowing full well that if they bin their car, it's down to them & only them; ie, nothing to do with RTOC, nothing to do with the hill-climb venue/management there, etc etc.

If that's all agreed, and everyone's aware of their insurance being null & void, we should be able to time the cars running.

Andy, can you confirm if that's the case?


I don't think any venue will allow timing without scruitineering and it being a sanctioned event.

I've hired Curborough for testing before, you'll only get it midweek, it is noise sensitve (as are many hillclimb venues). It comes with nothing, you need to sort out marshals, emergency services etc.

Prescott host Pugfest, they might be interested, but I imagine there will be noise testing, oh, and I don't think they'd appreciate bonfires, the Bugatti Owner's Club is strange that way..

I think you'd stand more chance of getting and airfield type sprint venue, which brings us back to Bruntingthorpe :scared:

[clee]

Might also need MSA licence to do timed or even just to book a hill .It's not a difficult process .RAOC are MSA approved ,I will ask Dellboy .

Brunt we do timed events and just need insurance

[clee]

Drivers will need a sprint licence as well .....

[Mart]

I think you'd stand more chance of getting and airfield type sprint venue, which brings us back to Bruntingthorpe :scared:

In that case, what about getting in touch with these people http://www.motorsport-events.co.uk/track-days.php and seeing if we can have an exclusive rtoc trackday at one of their airfields?

If the airfield/'track' is large & diverse enough, we could effectively host track action and sprinting at different parts of the airfield.

[Andrew Cooke]

this is all well and good as long as at the end of the day there are many hands to make sure things are managed properly ie all of the commitee working most of the day.......the hill climb is a good idea and i will support it but it seems to me that we would have to surely provide all of the staff,marshalls,ambulance,liability insurance,cost of the venue,camping, etc etc....i dunno??

now somewhere like harewood would be a winner first of all....

1,its 10 miles from me
2,plenty camping
3,excellent facilities
4,perfect viewing
5,pub round the corner
6,curry house round the corner
7,self contained ie shut the gates noone gets in
8,got some contacts...there...i can see it now....looks good.:agree:

Good venue, plenty of chance for 2 wheeling through the esses :)

[Andrew Cooke]

If the airfield/'track' is large & diverse enough, we could effectively host track action and sprinting at different parts of the airfield.

that was probably the biggest failing at Brunters, we were spread awfully thin over a huge site, lost all the atmosphere :crap:

[Mart]

But Brunters didn't have a sprint section per se - IIRC, it was just a timed straight run in the lunch hour, that, if I also remember correctly, not many people knew it was taking place anyway.

[Andrew Cooke]

But Brunters didn't have a sprint section per se - IIRC, it was just a timed straight run in the lunch hour, that, if I also remember correctly, not many people knew it was taking place anyway.

no, there was "1/4miling" all day at the far end, a top speed run at some point that noone knew about, and the track bit. See what I mean, you where there and didn't see 2/3 of what was going on.

[Mart]

You're forgetting my poor memory :D I can't even recall which car I took to Brunters :eek: :laugh:

[Andrew Cooke]

http://www.prescott-hillclimb.com/otherevents.aspx

I'm not pushing this, but you can see what pugfest is.

[HAndy]

:laugh:

That's club support & committment for ya. Right there.

:coffee:

mmmm.. :scratch: made the pod meet this year ? or did u forget that :cartman::laugh:
besides i could have turned up in a jap crap, but where's the renault theme in that???:sad2:

[Mart]

Andy, why d'you think we'd stand a better chance of hiring Prescott as opposed to Curborough, etc? Same meat, different gravy in the grand scheme of things, no?

[Mart]

besides i could have turned up in a jap crap, but where's the renault theme in that???:sad2:

A Nissan would've felt at home :D

[Andrew Cooke]

Andy, why d'you think we'd stand a better chance of hiring Prescott as opposed to Curborough, etc? Same meat, different gravy in the grand scheme of things, no?

Prescott compared to Shelsley. It's not that I think Prescott will be available, just that I think Shelsley will be unavailable, plus I have to say it's a dreadful venue. It's pretty much a straight run up a long hill, so you need to be a mountain goat to watch, then everyone is spread out in a long string. That first track walk of the season at Shelsley always reminds you how unfit you've become over the winter.

Although if you want a weekend slot Curborough is used pretty much every weekend for competition, hence you only get it midweek. Prescott on the other hand is rarely used, so might be available.

The nice thing about Harewood is the paddock is at the top of the hill, and spectating from there is pretty good, you can keep everyone together.

[jaffa]

wait a bloody minute what the hell are all the moaning ninnies ie("i felt intimidated on track" "you were going to fast for a trackday" "you over took on the wrong side"no one came and spoke to me") gonna be doin while all us lot are bombing around an hill climb venue......the answer please.cause we are back to square one.............ah ok i will let em polish my helmet :laugh:

[warpspeed]

A Nissan would've felt at home :D

Wonder if that's because Nissan is mainly owned by Renault?! :cooter:

[J8TRO]

I think the ideas above are great :goodpost:

I also wanted to clarify that my post on page 3 was referring to Jaffa as one of the Uber members of RTOC, and most certainly not one of the free loaders I was annoyed about. I just forgot to put his name with the others.

If you read my mail it could come across differently......eh Jaffa :p

[jaffa]

I think the ideas above are great :goodpost:

I also wanted to clarify that my post on page 3 was referring to Jaffa as one of the Uber members of RTOC, and most certainly not one of the free loaders I was annoyed about. I just forgot to put his name with the others.

If you read my mail it could come across differently......eh Jaffa :p

:cool:xxxxx

[jaffa]

I think the ideas above are great :goodpost:

I also wanted to clarify that my post on page 3 was referring to Jaffa as one of the Uber members of RTOC, and most certainly not one of the free loaders I was annoyed about. I just forgot to put his name with the others.

If you read my mail it could come across differently......eh Jaffa :p


oh and can we have a 'uber' members section at the next national day please i quite fancy sitting up higher looking down on the rtoc minnions.......:laugh:

[jesus in the seat of a 5]

oh and can we have a 'uber' members section at the next national day please i quite fancy sitting up higher looking down on the rtoc minnions.......:laugh:

you will never be that high jaff....:p {jesus..next in line}..:laugh:, personally after talking to quite a few people over the phone , the general vibe i get is that mallory is excellent they just wished there wernt so many people whomb arnet even in the club out on the track and at the event...;)

[J8TRO]

mallory is excellent they just wished there wernt so many people whomb arnet even in the club out on the track and at the event...;)

5 pages of a thread, 239 post, and the man they call Jesus sums it up in one sentence.

:worship:

[car.crash]

5 pages of a thread, 239 post, and the man they call Jesus sums it up in one sentence.

:worship:
it was mentioned pages ago.

[JRP]

I think car crashes idea of flags and novices etc was a blinder :) people should start listning to people like him... it pains me to say it but sence is prevailing from that one :scared::eek:

[jesus in the seat of a 5]

it was mentioned pages ago.

yes we all know that!, wheres the rolling eye smillie when you need it....:laugh:, i was mainly reffering to phone calls id had since, gawd , this forum is so crap at times, sometimes i think its better to just own a 5 etc etc and say s*** all...:dearme:, can people not be jolly on here etc...:crap:, its not like i was going to take all the credit for some allmighty words of wisdom or something..:laugh:

jesus...:gagged:

[JRP]

yes we all know that!, wheres the rolling eye smillie when you need it....:laugh:, i was mainly reffering to phone calls id had since, gawd , this forum is so crap at times, soetimes i think its better to just own a 5 etc etc and say s*** all...:dearme:, can people not be jolly on here etc...:crap:, its not like i was going to take all the credit for some allmighty words of wisdom or something..:laugh:


God wants a chat with you PM him ;) (me)

[car.crash]

yes we all know that!, wheres the rolling eye smillie when you need it....:laugh:, i was mainly reffering to phone calls id had since, gawd , this forum is so crap at times, sometimes i think its better to just own a 5 etc etc and say s*** all...:dearme:, can people not be jolly on here etc...:crap:, its not like i was going to take all the credit for some allmighty words of wisdom or something..:laugh:

jesus...:gagged:

it wanst a dig, just a comment.

[jesus in the seat of a 5]

it wanst a dig, just a comment.

it all just words...its how it sounds or reads my friend...:), remember i know your manor...;)..:laugh:..:cooter:

[Streetfighter]

Can't resist any longer...........although i don't really know where to begin.

I have to say I was shocked at a few things:

1 - poor briefing, I know the guy was nervous but if he wasn't up to it the other guy should have done it. "you've all been here before so off you" go is not acceptable.
2 - how many non members were on track (see the club has admitted some fault towards this)
3 - how few 5's there were (shame that's all)
I know a few people who passed wrist bands to non members the night before and when I saw who was there on the day I have to say i was fairly pi55ed off.
If I didn't love what is available through the club in order to look after my 5 i would question why i need to be a member based on that.

This was the first time I had been to Mallory and i'm not sure i'd go again.

On track it wasn't too bad, usual tools who indicate to let you past down the straight and then drag with you neck and neck until they inevitably fall off at the next corner, which is how you caught then up in the first place :laugh:
People driving on the edge in poor conditions, yeah it's your choice but don't overtake in bends on the limit unless you have a thick wallet to pay for the other people you might take out (non Renault cars btw)

No secure areas to put things, i.e. decent pit garages for wheels/tools etc.

As for people staying out on their own (ref MX5 gang) I went and befriended them in order to borrow various things they had ;) They were a lovely bunch, don't forget it's a 2 way street. If you're pi55ed they came to our Renault event that's different, change the rules, but don't bitch they're antisocial!

What was to stop someone turning up later in the day and going straight on track? No one was checking wrist bands!

If it were me I would only allow members on track (any car) I would pay a little extra for this privelege. If anyone can go on what's the point in being a member?

I know it's good we can have the track to ourselves and it all be very relaxed, but I think it was a step too far. Not even checking people have a driving license is a mistake.
Going to a higher standard track would ineviatably cost more so there has to be a compromise somewhere.

As for sessioning it, this would only work if someone wants to put the extra time in to managing it, prior to, and during the event. 3 groups doing 20 min sessions? would work Splitting the day for the day for novices, I don't agree, seems like wasting too much time for those only "allowed" to go on in the afternoon. If you want to go to a track day then it's the chance you need to take, be observant, let the faster cars past, go at your own pace and you'll have agreat day, don't winge it's scary :p

See you at Mallory next year :coffee: (awaiting wrath of current organisers)

[D4WNO]

Good post Streetfighter :agree:

I'll just deal with the bits that I am able to comment on, no point with guess-work as that doesn't help anyone :)



poor briefing, I know the guy was nervous but if he wasn't up to it the other guy should have done it. "you've all been here before so off you" go is not acceptable.


I 100% agree, I wasn't at the briefing itself as was helping set up the sign-on but have heard some very bad things about it. We can only apologise about this and Miller has it noted to ensure a thorough briefing is provided next year.



how many non members were on track (see the club has admitted some fault towards this)


I'm not entirely sure of the numbers but I think Clee has the figures for this. He did say that this year was a learning curve and has already come up with ways to ensure that this is kept tight for next year :agree: Unfortunately some members really took the mick so this will be watched very closely.



I know a few people who passed wrist bands to non members the night before and when I saw who was there on the day I have to say i was fairly pi55ed off.
If I didn't love what is available through the club in order to look after my 5 i would question why i need to be a member based on that.

This is a real shame and not something the club can really do much about. We are going to be limiting the purchase of track time to one per member to begin with, which will hopefully help to lower the chances of this being able to happen (this is a very big problem area and we'll be talking about this in much more detail in the CM forum, there will be flexible situations though)




This was the first time I had been to Mallory and i'm not sure i'd go again.


It would be a real shame if you didn't, we're hoping to fix everything for next year. This has been a huge learning curve - which we probably needed to happen so we can make greater improvements for the members.



On track it wasn't too bad, usual tools who indicate to let you past down the straight and then drag with you neck and neck until they inevitably fall off at the next corner, which is how you caught then up in the first place :laugh:
People driving on the edge in poor conditions, yeah it's your choice but don't overtake in bends on the limit unless you have a thick wallet to pay for the other people you might take out (non Renault cars btw)


This has been mentioned by a few members. Miller will be speaking to the track officials and ensuring that they are very strict on flagging people. I do hope that the more thorough briefing may aide this a little also.



No secure areas to put things, i.e. decent pit garages for wheels/tools etc.


I've since learnt that Mallory do have some garages so there is a possibility that perhaps we could pay them a little extra next year to cover the cost of the use (if we use that track - that is another discussion going on)



What was to stop someone turning up later in the day and going straight on track? No one was checking wrist bands!


Miller and I did stand out there for the first little while checking some bands, but other things such as the shop, sign-on, gate etc needed to be looked after. We had only a few CMs able to help out this year and unfortunately the gaps really showed. To take the pressure off the CMs so we are able to concentrate on other things we have already agreed to pay for an extra staff member solely for checking wrist bands :). If it's any consolation, I actually had an utter **** day and managed about 10 mins of personal time to go on track with my other half for a few laps, due to doing CM stuff and the bloomin' rain. We neeeeeed more help, that's very obvious. We did originally have more assistance but some very unfortunate things happened near to the time and we had to cope the best we could.

p.s - Massive thank you to Char, who basically controlled the shop for 99% of the day, out of kindness, she's not even a CM :agree:. Helped us LOADS!


Not even checking people have a driving license is a mistake.


This confuses me, as I thought we were checking these upon sign-on. It may have been that some were missed by whoever was responsible for this. I wasn't aware at all of this as I was at the end of the line writing the numbers on the bands. I'll have this checked as not at all happy about that.




See you at Mallory next year :coffee: (awaiting wrath of current organisers)

Lol, not at all. We ASKED for feedback and comments after all. We all have our own views on it and look just how much the club has learnt from this thread alone. It's all going towards making the next National Day better than it has ever been before :)

Phew, that took ages - I'm going for a little kip under my desk at work :D

[IANMM]

Good post Streetfighter :agree:




Miller and I did stand out there for the first little while checking some bands, but other things such as the shop, sign-on, gate etc needed to be looked after. We had only a few CMs able to help out this year and unfortunately the gaps really showed. To take the pressure off the CMs so we are able to concentrate on other things we have already agreed to pay for an extra staff member solely for checking wrist bands :). If it's any consolation, I actually had an utter **** day and managed about 10 mins of personal time to go on track with my other half for a few laps, due to doing CM stuff and the bloomin' rain. We neeeeeed more help, that's very obvious. We did originally have more assistance but some very unfortunate things happened near to the time and we had to cope the best we could.

p.s - Massive thank you to Char, who basically controlled the shop for 99% of the day, out of kindness, she's not even a CM :agree:. Helped us LOADS!






If you need help like this at any other future events i will put my name forward....im sure some other area reps would be glad to help out

ian

[James5]

If you need help like this at any other future events i will put my name forward....im sure some other area reps would be glad to help out

ian


:agree: More than happy to help out if I can:coffee:

[D4WNO]

Thanks guys, that's really appreciated. Of course, we do hope that we can find a way around things without others needing to put themselves out and taking away from their own track time (track time doesn't bother me as only go out as a passenger anyway). We can hire additional staff and find better ways to do things where we can.

As part of the AGM next year I'd really like to properly introduce some of the Area Reps too, I think it would be good, especially for some of the newer members. You guys work hard too and I think that needs to be expressed.