coilovers

[SCHWARTZ]

i just bought some coilovers of biil j, finally managed to un-seize the height adjusters and sorted out the rebound adjuster :mad:(snapped off) but. the problem is how do coilovers mate up to the strut top? do i need a special bearing to suite the coilovers and the strut top rubber or do i do away with it all together(not the bearing obv) i will put some pix up soon of the prob.;)

[SCHWARTZ]

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy12/schwartz87/Photo002-2.jpg
http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy12/schwartz87/Photo003-1.jpg
cant see how to get these to fit with still using the bearings. Is there something else i need?

[tiff_lee]

Do you mean you're unable to get the nut on the top? you need some spring compressors.

Edit: Opps ignore me I was looking at second pic (standard shocks) and totally forgot its the coilovers we are talking about.

[James5]

Gary, with the Avos, what you have goes straight on the bearing then you have the rubber / poly donut, then the top parts, then you have the little bowl thingy, washer and then nut and job done.

I have attached the AVO GTZ fitting guide to what I have as it has a pic that may assist you

[philg]

What i did was just removed the top part where the standard spring sit or locates, swapped that with the smaller bit for the narrower spring and fit the top just the same, and in the same order.

Its quite hard to explain, but dead easy if you just look at it :)

[SCHWARTZ]

cheers guys il have a go at it. I think i did try what you sais phill but it didnt look right il try it again.;)

[James5]

cheers guys il have a go at it. I think i did try what you sais phill but it didnt look right il try it again.;)

Gary, just had a look at your coilovers and I have circled the bits that the bearings will sit directly on and the rest is as per normal :)

That spring top section you have again the section I have circled will only allow you to go about 35-40mm drop as it stops at a certain distance down the shaft and will not budge anymore :( They did give out another section aswell with the coilovers kit's that will allow you to go as low as you like :) The other option replaces the section I have cirlced and sits on the top of the spring but dos not grip the shaft and allows for full adjustment of height anywhere up and down the AVO coilover.

[tiff_lee]

The other option replaces the section I have cirlced and sits on the top of the spring but dos not grip the shaft and allows for full adjustment of height anywhere up and down the AVO coilover.
Would the other ones be similar to the spax ones then?

[James5]

Would the other ones be similar to the spax ones then?

Similar yes the Spax are a very hard plastic and the AVO's are metal

[tiff_lee]

Very hard plastic? I must be talking about something else then, was referring to this part

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s4/tiff_lee_photos/IMG00024-20100419-1226.jpg

[James5]

Very hard plastic? I must be talking about something else then, was referring to this part



Yeah that's the Spax part, is it metal then??:ashamed: to be honest I can't remember I just remember it being black and the springs sat in it and the bearing on that with the Spax:laugh:

[tiff_lee]

Yeah definitely metal at least we know we are talking about the same part.

[James5]

Gary if you look at the setup guide page 3 picture and note the AS section you will note it is to wide to touch the shock shaft :)

Might be worth giving AVO a call if you want the part to see if they will supply a pair for you will allow you to adjust the coilovers properly.

[SCHWARTZ]

ok so i think this is how you two have said (james and phill). this is also how i did try it in the first place but it didnt look right. this is the bearing sitting on the top of the bit that james circled earlier.
http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy12/schwartz87/Photo006-2.jpg
will upload some more pix of it all together when it decides to work

[SCHWARTZ]

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy12/schwartz87/Photo008-2.jpg
http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy12/schwartz87/Photo007-1.jpg

[James5]

Gary, that looks perfect :agree:

[SCHWARTZ]

nice one just didnt look right the way the bearing case sat having a straight edge on a taper but if it is ok thats ace. Im not to fussed about having the car slammed i want it for practicality dont want to be scooping up all the used condoms of the road like yours james:laugh::wasntme:
I want the adjustment to have it corner weighted and soften it up for the road the stiffen it up for track;)

[James5]

nice one just didnt look right the way the bearing case sat having a straight edge on a taper but if it is ok thats ace. Im not to fussed about having the car slammed i want it for practicality dont want to be scooping up all the used condoms of the road like yours james:laugh::wasntme:
I want the adjustment to have it corner weighted and soften it up for the road the stiffen it up for track;)


Used condoms make good protections for under the car especially if they are fresh ones when they dry out it goes nice and crispy under the car :cooter:

[SCHWARTZ]

you and your home made underseal james:laugh:

[rs250nut]

Used condoms make good protections for under the car especially if they are fresh ones when they dry out it goes nice and crispy under the car :cooter:

Sicko, I did'nt think you used them anyway James:laugh:

[philg]

:yeah: well done looks right to me

[SCHWARTZ]

had them like that on sat then decided it didnt look right:rolleyes::laugh: and built the konis back up now have to swap it all back over

[SCHWARTZ]

me again.:D thought id be awkward so bought some adj top mounts as i had two n/s strut tops so ordered an o/s strut top from cgb and got sent another cnuting n/s.:mad: so now i have 3 n/s strut tops:rolleyes: , just want someone to confirm if the fitting is correct as the top mount cant swivel anymore because of the doughnut and the only thing holding the top mount swivel thing in (when its this way round) is a circlip. just want to be sure before they go back on the cat for the 5/6th time:sad2:
http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy12/schwartz87/Photo009.jpg
http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy12/schwartz87/Photo010.jpg
http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy12/schwartz87/Photo011-1.jpg

[SCHWARTZ]

i will be fitting them to the car at a later date but trying them out on the cat first;):rolleyes:

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

Top mounts are upside down....you will be relying on a small circlip to carry damper loads the way you have them now.....in other words, they will probably smash the spherical joints out of the top mount......

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

Like this....

[SCHWARTZ]

thats the way i thought they should go but the nut cant reach the thread to bolt to the shock:confused::scratch:

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

The idea behind solid top mounts is that you do away with the squashy rubber parts, the other thing is, the spherical bearing takes the place of the top bearing. Do away with these and they should fit. If you like I can photo mine, or, I'm sure there is something in the forums somewhere that shows how they should go....;)

[Alastair]

thats the way i thought they should go but the nut cant reach the thread to bolt to the shock:confused::scratch:

Mine were the same, if you are talking about the sleeved nut that goes through the spherical bearing onto the shock thread. I had to get some made up.

[SCHWARTZ]

cheers guys great help all sorted now looks like its going to be a bumpy ride tho:laugh::D

[tiff_lee]

I thought i'd add my query to this thread seeing as i'm in a similar boat with coilovers and adjustable top mounts.

The top part of my coilovers are different to Gary's in that there is no centre locating hole as such to hold it inline with the damper (see post no.10) it is the additional suspension components that line it up.

With the solid mount on top I can move the coilover spring cup side to side :confused:

[c7borg]

I noticed on the pic that your top platform was on an angle (looking like a ph2 top mount) whereas with the spherical top mounts they are flat will this affect the camber or am I missing something?

[tiff_lee]

I noticed on the pic that your top platform was on an angle (looking like a ph2 top mount) whereas with the spherical top mounts they are flat will this affect the camber or am I missing something?

Now you mention it I'm even more confused

[tiff_lee]

Ok to illustrate what i'm babbling about here is a picture of my coilover with the spring cup which is located centrally once all the other standard suspension parts are bolted on.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s4/tiff_lee_photos/P90901902.jpg

Also here is my compbrake adjustable top mount, although I'm not too sure what the purpose of the sleeve nut and spacer is as they're too small to go onto the coilover :confused:

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s4/tiff_lee_photos/P9090191.jpg

As I mentioned before there is nothing to locate the spring cup and stop it moving around plus the mount would be held flat?

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

I think you have helper spring collars and you are missing the top cups..... Look at the first pic at the top.

[tiff_lee]

Yea I see the difference but when using all the standard suspension components it all mates up correctly, perhaps James5 can refresh my memory as I got them from him.

Still unsure of what the sleeve nut is for that came with the top mount.

[James5]

Yea I see the difference but when using all the standard suspension components it all mates up correctly, perhaps James5 can refresh my memory as I got them from him.

Still unsure of what the sleeve nut is for that came with the top mount.


You defo have the correct spring cup top's Tiff, the one's Gary aka Shwartz has are incorrect and are used in conjuction with the helper springs. I have a pair of AVO helper spring cup tops if you want and your welcome to them. If you look at this thread post 4 and check out the setup guide for the AVo GTZ page 3 and not the shape of the AS labelled part this is what Gary has has not got. You are basically using the Spax verison of that cup.

Spax setup loosely bolted together with spring adjuster right down bottom at mo but as it is the pic give you the image of what goes were with the OE setup, there were no other parts supplied with the Spax kit

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/GTTJames/C12%20GTT/March%202010/IMG_6188.jpg

[James5]

Yea I see the difference but when using all the standard suspension components it all mates up correctly, perhaps James5 can refresh my memory as I got them from him.

Still unsure of what the sleeve nut is for that came with the top mount.


I would assume the sleeve nut was for a suspension rod that might have been to thin to fit nicely within the adjustable top and it would make it secure within :scratch:

[James5]

Lee, have you actually bolted the adjustable top mount straight to what you have yet??

So bolt it staight onto this (pic below) as matt5 says above you don't need the original rubber doughnut or the original bearing as the new top mount has it all built in.

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s4/tiff_lee_photos/P90901902.jpg

[SCHWARTZ]

You defo have the correct spring cup top's Tiff, the one's Gary aka Shwartz has are incorrect and are used in conjuction with the helper springs. I have a pair of AVO helper spring cup tops if you want and your welcome to them. If you look at this thread post 4 and check out the setup guide for the AVo GTZ page 3 and not the shape of the AS labelled part this is what Gary has has not got. You are basically using the Spax verison of that cup.

Spax setup loosely bolted together with spring adjuster right down bottom at mo but as it is the pic give you the image of what goes were with the OE setup, there were no other parts supplied with the Spax kit

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh25/GTTJames/C12%20GTT/March%202010/IMG_6188.jpg

james is selling dodgy parts again:cooter::laugh:
Mine have some how worked out quite well. I should be (if all goes to plan) dropping the car back down on the weekend so we will see how they work.

[James5]

james is selling dodgy parts again:cooter::laugh:
Mine have some how worked out quite well. I should be (if all goes to plan) dropping the car back down on the weekend so we will see how they work.


:laugh: Cheeky, glad i didn't sell Lee the rears after what happened to 1 of mine:eek:



You got it running yet Gary??:laugh:

[tiff_lee]

I would assume the sleeve nut was for a suspension rod that might have been to thin to fit nicely within the adjustable top and it would make it secure within :scratch:

I thought something like that also but they are intended for a 5 GTT and the thread of the spax is the same size as that on my phase 1 standard dampers so fook knows, the spherical bearing as it is fits perfectly over the damper shaft.

I haven't bolted them on yet because as it stands I can't see them working, the base of the mount is completely flat so once bolted on, the spring cup and spring for that matter isn't held in place by anything and can be puled side to side plus the mount isn't able to be adjusted camber wise as it is bolted square on.

[SCHWARTZ]

i had to use those spacer nuts that came with the top mounts, but the top mounts didnt fit over the shaft. have you used those spacer washers to sort that?

[SCHWARTZ]

:laugh: Cheeky, glad i didn't sell Lee the rears after what happened to 1 of mine:eek:



You got it running yet Gary??:laugh:
:laugh: no havind a little trouble i suspect the starter. (Thread in b18ft section;);):laugh:

[tiff_lee]

Those spacer/sleeve nuts that came with the top mount aren't even the same size thread as the coilover they're too small, however they do fit nicely inside the spherical bearing so i'm unsure of there intended purpose but then again maybe it is just a limited range of coilovers they work with?

I'm really stumped here, I must need some other part of some sort to make this work :confused: If I just bolt the top mount on the coilover as shown in post :39 there is nothing to hold the spring cup central as the underside of the mount is flat. Then there is the fact I have 2 flat faces bolted together so I wouldn't be able to adjust camber.

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

You guys are going to give me nightmares!!!
If you pay the postage to and from the codered workshop, I'll sort them for you!!! Pm me if you want.

[tiff_lee]

Ok after some google action I found this thread

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/lofiversion/index.php/t91508.html

From the looks of the setup he is using in the final set of pics it seems ill need to source some new spring cups with a central locating hole for the damper shaft and also have the sleeve nut and spacer I received with the mount machined to the correct size (larger).

Good news a possible solution the bad news more chuffing $$$

[SCHWARTZ]

my mounts came with a few different size spacer nut things il have a measure up and see if they are any good for ya;)

[tiff_lee]

my mounts came with a few different size spacer nut things il have a measure up and see if they are any good for ya;)

Cool cheers again, I have emailed compbrake see if they have any different ones I can exchange for just waiting to hear back.

[tiff_lee]

Finally got this sorted now well almost just need to assemble them once i'm back home.

The spring cup/top hat call it what you will I had with my spax (see post#10) was designed to be used with the original OE suspension components so I picked up a pair of these on ebay

http://www.zyworld.com/CAPRISPORT/top_caps.jpg

and had them turned down a little and drilled to fit

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s4/tiff_lee_photos/IMG00118-20101013-1219.jpg

Sometime I wish I had my own lathe as could of knocked these out myself

[SCHWARTZ]

back again:sad2: not so much the coilovers now but the adjustable top mounts:rolleyes: What ever i do i cant seem to get rid of the negative camber:confused: I have the top mounts so the shock nut is as near to the wing as it can get but i still have masses of negative camber. Comparing them to the o/e strut tops it looks like the top of the shock needs to go over even more but cant due to the top mount hitting the rim type thing of the shock tower if that makes sense. on the o/e strut tops the nut goes under this rim thing so do i need to cut my shock tower out??:crap:

[markey b]

back again:sad2: not so much the coilovers now but the adjustable top mounts:rolleyes: What ever i do i cant seem to get rid of the negative camber:confused: I have the top mounts so the shock nut is as near to the wing as it can get but i still have masses of negative camber. Comparing them to the o/e strut tops it looks like the top of the shock needs to go over even more but cant due to the top mount hitting the rim type thing of the shock tower if that makes sense. on the o/e strut tops the nut goes under this rim thing so do i need to cut my shock tower out??:crap:

i've only skim read this thread, so could be way off the mark, but sounds to me like u have ph2 coilover kit with ph1 alloy top mounts? if so thats your problem, the hub spacing on the coilovers is angled compared to parallell on the ph1 struts...

either keep ya ph1 topmounts and get ph1 hubs and coilovers, or simply change the topmounts for ph2 ones (i think they are harder to come by if u want alloy ones)

i only know because i made the same mistake :cartman:

[SCHWARTZ]

:sad2: I have defo got ph2 shocks but i didnt really think about there being ph1 and ph2 adjustable topmounts:rolleyes: il have a check. The ones i have are just a flat disc with a bump where the bearing is held. They look a lot like tiff lees ones in this thread. Have you fitted your topmounts yet lee?

[tubby5]

:sad2: I have defo got ph2 shocks but i didnt really think about there being ph1 and ph2 adjustable topmounts:rolleyes: il have a check. The ones i have are just a flat disc with a bump where the bearing is held. They look a lot like tiff lees ones in this thread. Have you fitted your topmounts yet lee?

im haveing the same prob(compbrake top mounts) at first i orded the solid non adjustable mount.fitted it and the camber was way off.so i sent them back explaing they were ph1 mounts.they told me to send my oe mounts to them which i did,and then said they have nothing that resembles the oe ph2 top mount:(so suggested i use the adjustable top mount(didnt charge me any extra for these:agree:)and i am trying to fit these at the mo.but like you said it cant sit in the right place:cry:

but what i can gather is it doesnt matter if these mounts are ph2 or ph1 they still wont sit where you want them,or will they:scratch:

im tempted to do what scoff has done and cut a bit out of the strut(not ideal but if done right looks neat/passable)

[tubby5]

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/Scoff/02M%20conversion/8_making_new_exhaust_manifold.JPG

[SCHWARTZ]

yeah was thinking something like that. looks like scoff has drilled new holes further out maybe using longer wishbones. think with these topmounts you would have to cut the shock tower out more than chris has and drill the holes further out. Il be looking at this 2moz so il let ya know how i get on but i was thinking of maybe some kind of thick metal disc that would go in between the shock tower and the topmounts and allow the topmount(bump) to clear the shock tower:scratch:

[SCHWARTZ]

looking at the top mounts there is not enough off set to sort the camber out without drilling new holes in the shock tower:sad2:

[Tony Walker]

Before you chop the top off the strut tower(as that ring strengthens it quite alot)
Have either of you fitted new wishbones/bottom ball joints? check that these are the correct ones maybe you could try camber correcting bolts instead?

[SCHWARTZ]

correction bolts could not sort this way to much camber. I have just bought new wishbones but the camber was good wth o/e strut tops and the shocks are ph2's

[Tony Walker]

:( if it was fine with the old top mounts and the only thing you have changed is the new top mount then ........... top mount is the problem :( dont think you needed me to tell you that tho lol.

[tubby5]

Your right,in saying the mounts are wrong.after a bit of head scratching I've come to the concluison these are phase 1 mounts.if you rotate the disc 180degrees from the position that your trying to fit it.you will see it sits in the ph1 position,

think I might just go back to ph1 setup

what's the difference between ph1-ph2 camber settings??

[SCHWARTZ]

yeah i dont want to cut the shock tower so will prob sell these and go back to o/e strut tops.:sad2:

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

correction bolts could not sort this way to much camber. I have just bought new wishbones but the camber was good wth o/e strut tops and the shocks are ph2's

How much camber are we talking....:confused:

[SCHWARTZ]

i didnt get any measurements but you could stick a finger under the tire and feel the tread. All sorted now though as i've swapped the top mounts back to o/e. looks like these type of top mount will only work with the phase 1 set-up :sad2: