Renault Only Championship

[Sam Fish]

I have been thinking about this for a while now, and would seriously consider doing the leg work if there was enough interest.

Wouldnt it be great to have a Renault only championship. With different classes for each car. A bit like the old Super Coupe Cup, but just for Renaults - One make racing at its best.
The hard part would be balancing the regs, as most, even the ex cup cars, have been changed.
.....alot of the clio 16v cup cars now have a williams engine in for example.
But if the organisers put thier foot down and insisted that each class had to stick to the 'cup' regulations for that model, there could be some cheap racing! Alowing variation (based on BHP per ton) does not provide close enough racing in my eyes (see the newly launched VAG trophy - with a B-class car winning). I think the cars need to be as identical as possible.

So classes for;
5TS
5GT Turbo
Clio 16v
Clio 172/182 - this could be split between cars to cup regs (sadev, lsd etc) and ones to other more basic regs with control damper and standard box.
Megane coupe - if there are many in the UK. I know of one ex cup car
And any others.

There are enough trackday variations that could easily be converted or down-spec'ed.

Would be best to run in a current championship until the numbers increased. I think the best organisers at the moment are MotorSport Vision Racing. Some of the best circuits and some impressive championships on board.

Any ideas or input?
Any interest?
Sam

[Sam Fish]

PS:
We saw how many 5's there where at Thruxton in 2004. And imagine how many 172/182 track cars there are.... And how many Williams/16v track cars too.

And all in Period stickers :agree:

[bod 182]

I would be very interested if this came to anything a step up from doing trackdays:smokin::smokin:

[Sparkie]

how many mk1 TS's are left?

[Sam Fish]

Not sure.
There must have been 7-9 TS's at the reunion race. And I know of another that wasnt there.


The clio 172/182's class would be designed to be as cheap as possible. Control Damper and brake pads. 6 point cages. Control tyre. Maybe a control induction system. All could be available at discounted prices. Standard 15" OE wheels maybe.
Minimum weights for each class etc etc.

....

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

I would be interested.....not only as a racer, but as a poss. team,Code Red Motorsports, set-up.
The thing about multiple classes in the same series, is the control of something I hate....which is 'cheque-book engineering'.....so a reliable power/weight ratio structure could be a possible route, much like the MSVR trackday trophy.
Also you will need to cater for an absolute beginners point of view....I.E. cheapness, and something we lack in many race series....good track manners.
Control tyres, for me, would have to be road tyres from the List 1A of the blue book, otherwise we would be lining Toyo's pockets by the constant flow of 888's.....which in turn will hike the price as demand goes up AGAIN!!!

[olidaviesuk]

It does sound interesting, however, would need really strong policing of driving standards, as the racing becomes that much closer with one make/similarly performing cars, and from stockhatch, Clio cup, BTCC and anything in between shows closer racing = more contact and damage as some people take Mr Plato's attitude to driving, which pushes the cost up!

A control tyre such as yoky a048s or R888s with a maximum no of sets (3) allowable per season, and absolutely watertight regs, leaving no room for ambiguity or grey areas would be essential as well, as otherwise chequebook racing becomes inevitable.

[Tony Walker]

I think to get enough members involved costs would have to be kept within reach. i think contact rules and cheap tyres is a good idea, cheap tyres perhaps keeping speeds down?

[robbie506]

what sort of out lay would i be looking at? cash is tight but very interested.

[olidaviesuk]

Sam,

Is there much difference in pace between the 5 cups, clio (16v) and 172 cups? As if they are all fairly similar (I know the newer cups with the sequential boxes etc are going to be in a diff. league) you could merge those three into one class then handicap as necessary to equalise the cars, with weight, boost, intake/exhaust restrictions etc

[Sam Fish]

Matt.
Agree with all you say. The more Professional companies the better. Brings prestige to the championship.

Tyres are a major factor to racing costs. And keeping the cost down should be a premium.
The list 1A isnt bad. But you will get people having tread removed (buffed) from the road tyres to remain competitive. This will add costs. All the other cars will be on 15", with the 5's on 13.

Toyos are jumping up arent they!

regarding balancing speeds, I dont think its actually possible to balance the pace of cars, without making them identical.
Take a look at the FIA world GT championship. With all thier resources, they cant equalise the diverse field of cars, even after half a season. Also, look at the results of the 'VAG Trophy' championship. they have 3 classes based on BHP per ton. Nice idea, but it never going to be as close as one make....

I believe the only way is to make cars as similar as possible. That also controls costs.
SCRUTINEERING is also another major part of a championship working well. Whats the point if nobody is checking?

My idea is something based on the super coupe cup, where different one make championships have thier own battles in one field of cars.

Lap times may need to be balanced accross the classes to prevent the slower cars being lapped over and over, which is dangerous and can ruin the racing.
This could mean the R5's running on trackday tyres and the clios running on more road based rubber. Or Adding weight to the Clio cup cars.

My idea for the R5 GT would be:
Adjustable dampers (no coilover)
Cup engine spec
Some kind of Boost control or scrutineering or course.
Standard gearbox.
Standard brakes
Control Pads.
Brake ducts allowed in the fog aperture.
min weight
6 point cage
13 inch wheels.
Standard top mounts
Engine mounts can be upgraded.
No plastic windows.
... basically 'cup' but with adjustable dampers.
Cup workshop manuals can be distributed.
I rekon thats a relatively cheap race car, what with prices of R5's bits and bobs.

Likewise with clio 16v's and other clios.


.... unless the consensous takes the spec another way :)

[Sam Fish]

Driving standards rules, sure.
With grid penalties. etc. Nothing like Michael Shumacher!

[Tony Walker]

Maybe instead of standard topmounts as we know these arent going to last much longer unless we get some made? you could just limit the camber allowed?

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

Sam, I know its early...and an interesting idea...I wonder if its worth approaching a tyre manufacturer, a Rolling road etc....? could help with sponsorship of the series....
If a power run can be taken, then the engine/wastegate could be sealed like a Kart?

[RussellT]

They had a piece on top gear once where a whole lot of Swedes turn up and race old cars it looked great fun cheap racing and I think they could demand to swap cars if you felt someone had an advantage.

One of the things that puts me off racing (and its from quite a long list) is the ball ache of trailoring and storing a race car. Is there anyway you could nominate a race track and keep the race cars there? The idea is its a race club you pay so much to join that covers the cost of the cars & prep by a firm hence level playing field and you draw for your car on the day.

Driver would be more likely to respect all the cars as they might be in the one in front in the next race. You could even have a rule that if you cause and accident the bent car is yours next race :laugh:

Mallory park and Primma Racing would go together well.

[Sam Fish]

There are a few championships where you are obliged to sell your car (or parts) if somebody wants it. Bear with this.....

Prices are set for parts such as suspension, engine, gearbox and full car - and you have to sell it if requested. But the prices are more than enough to cover the rebuild costs.
EG:

Price for a car is set at £8500 (lets say for a clio. Without getting into a debate about that ;)). If there is somebody doing quite well, and you fancy his/her car, request to buy it and it will cost you £8500. The amount of money should be enough to cover the costs of the seller to build another and some inconvenience 'profit'.
This means that nobody goes spending BUCKET loads of money on thier car, because its only ever worth a maximum of £8500. You could go and get custom dampers made etc etc, but you may have to sell it the next race.

Likewise with the engine.
You could go and blueprint everything and spend £3000++ on it, but that would be pointless, because somebody could offer to buy it (and you would have to sell it) for £1800 lets say.

.....Its a nice idea.


Because of the following that Renaults atract, there could be quite a few companies wanting to get involved, and the champioship would have more depth and professionalism because of it. Arrive-and-drive packages are always going to be more expensive than doing it yourself.
The control tyre should be road legal, to allow competitors to drive to the circuit.

Prices could be kept down by having associations with companies (koni, Eibach, Turbo Technics, safety devices etc etc) for example. Each class could have thier own set of sponsors (as some companies specialising in 5's may not want to sponsor the clios too). This gives massive scope for potential investment, or/and cheaper prices for competitors.

Entry fees will be somewhere between £200-300 - as per other club championships. We cant get away from that. But if you can build a car cheap, and drive it to the circuit, then its not too bad.

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

Is it worth considering a Renault one make sprint series?
Adhering to the regs in the blue book, there are already well established classes for all types of cars..... The costs are relatively low, plus no contact.... Unless you put it in the bank/Armco yourself......

[Matt@CodeRedMotorsports]

Any news on this Sam....?

[RoboEK]

I would be very intrested in this, as iv been looking in to this recently http://www.vtecchallenge.co.uk/
but would much prefer to do it in a 5 :D

[Scottish9Turbo]

very nice idea that, and something that probably would take off especially with the 172/182 series i think. the 5's as well would definately be a nice sight to see racing properly again... if there was anything up at knockhill one time, i'd be keen to take the clio up there for it!

[c7borg]

don't suppose there will be a class for oddballs no one lets me race anywhere :cry: