View Full Version : No Boost.!
Does sound very strange indeed.
First check that you don't have a massive crack the size of Katie Price's muff in the intercooler, also check there isn't a huge leak at the exhaust manifold, either of these problems would leak enough gas to not drive the Turbo
take the air intake off and make sure the wheel is spinning under hard revs.....(stationary)
then check what hulk said...lol
hydrotec78
17-07-2010, 14:08
no worries mate the 5 looks sweet as now, as for the boost :confused: :confused: :confused: there is no leaks we have checked for that ! there is loads of tension on the arm to hold the gate closed. Mark is going to have a word with Adam to see if he can throw some light on it.
The problem before was the wastegate was partially open and you were bleeding all the exhaust gas down the exhaust rather than it hitting the turbine wheel. There wasn't enough thread on the actuator rod to give it sufficient enough preload. Also, that wasn't a genuine -31, i'm afraid, it's a copy actuator, it was holding pressure though.
hydrotec78
17-07-2010, 14:17
Also, that wasn't a genuine -31, i'm afraid, it's a copy actuator, it was holding pressure though.[/quote]
:laugh: Refund refund refund :wasntme:
TrixNFlix
17-07-2010, 15:29
Surely if you take the actuator arm off, and hold the wastegate penny closed with some mole grips on the pivoting arm, and rev the nuts off it you should get some boost.
Markey Mark (BD)
17-07-2010, 15:58
This is a puzzler this one, last car i do and it stumps me! :confused:
The actuator has so much preload it should be running tons of boost, when driving it it just feels so flat, not even here the turbo spool up like you could if you had a boost leak.
Exactly like driving a NA 5.
It does produce a small amount of chatter when lift off but very mininal, boost gauge reach's 0psi and won't go past, even drove it with vacumn pipe off actuator so it solely relied on actuator to open wastegate but still nothing, no boost not even 1psi
just eliminate the possibilty of it being the turbo!!!! get another on there....:scared:
Garrett print their part number on their parts, that had nothing, and the actuator was a slightly different design to a -31, plus it's been galvanised a different colour. I didn't mention anything as I assumed you meant -31 ''style'' actuator, I missunderstood.
Have you now cut thread on the rod right up to the two mounting lugs? That's usually how far I need to cut it for Renault 5's when we fit them.
Tony Walker
18-07-2010, 21:29
Take ur boost pipe off rev the car and you should feel the turbo boosting.do it at the turbo, then at the carb top hose. if you have boost at the turbo end but not at the carb top end then theres a leak or restriction. try it with another air filter? i cant imagine it being blocked enough to give no boost but its worth a try. even a goosed turbo should provide some boost lol
start at beginning, on my car if you look at turbine blades they spin when car is ticking over,then if you give it 2 thousand rev's and put your hand over you will feel the suction like a hoover:) then start working your way along:agree: if it does the above mentioned
my mate had this problem and what he had done was use a rag to clean inside is pipes and left it in ha ha:)
I would still say there maybe a split in ya fmic somewhere??
Yep intercooler is fine after that test. Now check your exhaust manifold for leaks/cracks
Try another turbo on then you will know if its at fault.
Sounds like the turbo to me.
For sure, there shouldn't be any oil in the turbo inlet, unless you've got the o.e breather setup plumbed into the telephone hose, but even then it should only be vapour marks of oil present & not a puddle like your picture shows.
Fairly sure we've been all through this before though - It was suggested last time that your turbo's suspect.
Somebody must have an old smoker you can borrow to test, doesnt have to be a mint condition unit to see if it boosts up.
chock the front of the car up (very securely) and get someone to put her into gear and get her on boost (well try to) put your head in the engine and see if you can hear the boost leak...(if it is one)
leave the air filter off and then you can clearly see if the turbine spins up...
and at least your will see the act arm opening/closing then too
i l k e r
19-07-2010, 18:56
raj,
did you check the one way valves behind the inlet manifold, you'd be amazed how a small hole would leak all your boost into the atmosphere.
Tony Walker
19-07-2010, 19:19
i wouldnt put ur hand on the induction side, lil dangerous. u should feel plenty of air blasting out of the compressor side. Another thought. can you feel plenty of exhaust gases escaping? a restriction in the exhaust could cause it. ive only ever come accross cats melting causing this but maybe ur backbox could be blocked. someone put a potatoe up there??:sad2:
Raj,
I don't know the first thing about this but the AEI, is definitely a GTT one isn't it?
Or, if it is an RE209; if the vacuum diaphragm is perished, could this cause this kind of problem? I don't know.
Just a thought, in order to rule it out. :agree:
Have you re-sealed the blanking plate on the compressor housing? I know there was alot of sealer on the outer rim, but if you don't seal the inner ring it's going to leak any pressure that is built up straight back into the intake pipe.
The core of the turbo, which we rebuilt, was mechanically fine, well within tolerance. Infact, there was no wear on anything when it was sent back. The crack on the exhaust housing isn't ideal, but it should still be making boost
Tony Walker
19-07-2010, 19:57
Pretty sure it needs the pressure there to stop the oil passing the seals?? someone correct me if im wrong tho.
i got my lip stuck down the pipe when i was testing it:scared:
:cartman:
Tony Walker
21-07-2010, 19:18
Pretty sure it needs the pressure there to stop the oil passing the seals?? someone correct me if im wrong tho.
^^^^^^^
With no pressure to equalise i think it forces a little oil past the seals.
We prime our turbo's before they go on the shelf, where they may sit for months. The oil eventually makes it way past the pistons rings. They use pressed ring seals, so it's going to need pressue to stop it from leaking. Hence why you're not burning oil out of the exhaust, you've got the constant exhaust gas flowing through the back end.
Tony Walker
21-07-2010, 19:49
Its all about wishfull thinking :D its what owning a 5 is all about.
Matt Cole
24-07-2010, 21:25
Raj
As long as there is sufficient exhaust gas passing a 'correctly matched rear turbine to the cubic capicity of the engine' then as long as the ex turbine is connected to the compressor wheel 'correctly matched' then it will produce pressure. After that your chasing a boost leak, or actuator issue or the compessor wheel aint attached to the core shaft!!! Ether pop another turbo on or pressure test the boost circuit and report back.
allanr5gtt
24-07-2010, 21:47
i thinking out loud what about cam timing out or tappets are to tight?
Markey Mark (BD)
25-07-2010, 10:27
Turbo's got to come off mate, think that the only way now to really see whats going on with it. Its only thing it can be as everything else is spot on.
Raj, is it more than a coincidence that you've got no brake pedal AND no boost? Does this suggest two problems from the one same root perhaps?
Wondering if you have a leak between master cylinder and servo? Maybe the new master cylinder seal is a dud? If either one, could this be somehow connected through a vacuum issue to the no boost situation?
:(
Raj, i have a t2 here if you want to borrow it for a test. Smokes like enron on a good day but boosts up fine.
Markey Mark (BD)
25-07-2010, 13:21
Raj, is it more than a coincidence that you've got no brake pedal AND no boost? Does this suggest two problems from the one same root perhaps?
Wondering if you have a leak between master cylinder and servo? Maybe the new master cylinder seal is a dud? If either one, could this be somehow connected through a vacuum issue to the no boost situation?
:(
Its a poss mate, when we did the brakes and bleed it up the pedal felt nice and firm, once you turned engine on pedal went to floor, i think servo has gone.
Now we did notice the AFR's leaned right out when you worked the brakes alot so suspected the one way valve, we fitted new one and this helped out alot, not perfect but better. Played with it alittle more, few more bleeds and we got some sort of pedal with the engine running and then started to work nicely.
Only thing with this theory is the one way valve is there to stop boost going into the brake servo, so if new one is fitted this should eliminated the fault there and allowed boost to flow through engine but it still has no boost what so ever with the new oneway valve in.
markey b
25-07-2010, 18:21
silly question, but do you have the throttle cable adjusted correctly?
Markey Mark (BD)
25-07-2010, 18:43
silly question, but do you have the throttle cable adjusted correctly?
Yeah throttle cable is spot on mate. ;)
Also, that wasn't a genuine -31, i'm afraid, it's a copy actuator, it was holding pressure though.
:laugh: Refund refund refund :wasntme:[/quote]
It's one that Raj supplied himself, Turbo Developments don't sell them :)
Matt Cole
26-07-2010, 13:29
Raj,
How about jamming the wastegate shut and see what happens?
Matt Cole
26-07-2010, 15:38
i cant remember if markey did this:scratch: either that or he ran it with the actuator arm off.! i cant remember now:confused:
whats the best method of holding the wastegate shut?
A piece of threaded bar and washers will do the trick. Other than welding it shut you need something that can hold the pressures. Find out if this has been done Raj, could be that simple.:agree:
Markey Mark (BD)
26-07-2010, 17:20
I ran the car with the actuator arm on but no vacumn pipe going to it so it should of produced a fair bit of boost with the amount of preload that actuator has wound on it.
Js give him a call instead?? would be better.. :)
Js give him a call instead?? would be better.. :)
I do keep saying that, lol. If he wasn't a member then it would be the only option. Plus, it's easier to discuss things in detail over the phone :)
Woznaldo
02-09-2010, 02:18
Logic says that it must be the turbo (i know hind sight a beautiful thing) but, for there to be no boost at all it cant really be anything else. If there was a boost leak you would here a loud hissing as air was escaping and if there was a crack in the exhaust you would here a loud ticking noise.
In either case there would still be some boost getting to the carb.
I think there must be something going on with the wastegate? It can't be sealing properly, maybe a bent gate shaft that locks before it's fully home?
what A/R is the rear housing? 0.63? 0.64? 0.86?
are you sure you checked throughly for boost leaks? carb top for splits (if its plastic) inter cooler etc? have you tried the wd40 trick to see if you can find the boost leak ? im no turbo expert but Adam L is and i would assume thats ok..??
as for the oil in the turbo have you pulled or your breathers off as a blocked breather or restricted one would back the oil up into the turbo....
And how did ian nixon confirm it was the turbo? surely he would have a spare to whip it on to confirm his theory?
Jimmy_GTT
02-09-2010, 08:57
Check the interccoler.
I had similar problem with my 1st GTT 15 years ago. There was a leak between the alloy and the plastic parts which could not be seen just when we pressure tested it.
Check the interccoler.
I had similar problem with my 1st GTT 15 years ago. There was a leak between the alloy and the plastic parts which could not be seen just when we pressure tested it.
Pretty sure he said he pressure tested the intercooler :)
Markey Mark (BD)
02-09-2010, 16:19
Just so everyone knows i've checked the car over twice and was there when Ian gave it the once over too, there are no boost leaks anywhere on the boost circuit.
The actuator is fine, its got tons of preload but still doesn't want to build boost.
What Ian did find is the turbo runs more vacumn the moment you rev the engine, instead of going straight up it carry's on creating vacumn to begin with.
Also the turbo spins very freely, but reving the engine hard and holding your hand over the turbo outlet there is hardly any pressure coming from there.
It is a strange one but does seem to point towards the turbo.
what does the exhaust note sound like?? normal?? and have u taken the elbow off the turbo and had a look??
Threads like this are just priceless. 'No boost' and 6weeks later no one has (or if they have ive missed it) tried another turbo on the car. Wind and pi55ing spring to mind :wasntme:
Markey Mark (BD)
02-09-2010, 17:09
Threads like this are just priceless. 'No boost' and 6weeks later no one has (or if they have ive missed it) tried another turbo on the car. Wind and pi55ing spring to mind :wasntme:
I think Ians tried another turbo on the car now.
I couldn't fit one as i didn't have spare nor did Raj so we were abit suck on that one.
I'm sure Adam would have notivced but can the wheels be put on the wrong way at all ?
Anyway just a quick turbo question unrelated to this thread.....
would a turbo with a .48 comp side and a .64 ex side be a t25? and also how would it act on the 5?
also what comp and ex does a t25 tomcat unit have?
Yes T25 but it will be very laggy with that turbine. You might be able to fit the 0.49 from a tomcat onto that turbo though.
Yes T25 but it will be very laggy with that turbine. You might be able to fit the 0.49 from a tomcat onto that turbo though.
I once rana Nissan 200 S13 blower on a 5 many moons ago now, it had a 0.64 back end on it (as standard) and it was laggy as fcuk and at full chat wouldn't produce more than 10psi (if memory serves) even with the actuator locked shut.
Woznaldo
03-09-2010, 08:05
Just going to ask the stupid question, can you confirm that the turbo shaft hasn't sheared? I know that it's very unlikely but, I'm just curious?
Markey Mark (BD)
03-09-2010, 16:23
Just going to ask the stupid question, can you confirm that the turbo shaft hasn't sheared? I know that it's very unlikely but, I'm just curious?
Shafts not snapped mate as the compressor wheel is spinning freely when reved. Was something we thought of though.
I personally think its a knackerd rear housing or mis-matched wheel and housing on the front or rear.
I can't wait for this to be sorted out Raj. I'm sure you're well past that stage. :agree:
what A/R is the rear housing? 0.63? 0.64? 0.86?
i had a t25/t2 that was laggy as hell, removed it and found that the back end was a 0.63 AR....was physically the same size externally. this is why i asked.......
Thundercat
03-09-2010, 18:34
raj turbos can be such pigs, i've had 4 on my new project this week and found only one to be any good. The 3rd turbo i tried was very much like your symtoms and found that exhaust turbine blades were touching exhaust housing (ebay item:(). But with a little bit of turbo housing swaps i know have a functioning turbo. Don't blame the 5 mate just bad luck. Your car will be worth the hassle once on the road :cool:
Tony Walker
05-09-2010, 19:38
Turning the housings is a pretty minor problem, easy enough to do it yourself. As far as rebuilding the turbo goes, its completely different for each turbo really. depends how fubard it is.
Just out of interest, have you tried eliminating as much of the pressure side of the circuit as possible i.e. pipe straight from the turbo to the carb, and cut out all the rest of the circuit for a quick simple test - divide and conquer style? How are you loading the engine to generate enough heat to drive the turbine anyway?
Tony Walker
06-09-2010, 22:19
ie a human fart had a better chance of producing more pressure!
More pressure perhaps, but not more flow, that wouldnt be nice.
stu not all of us have a spare turbo to hand:rolleyes: i did actually ask on here to borrow one to no avail.!
Post #52 ;)
i l k e r
07-09-2010, 12:45
Post #52 ;)
perhaps he didn't want to bang on a smokey turbo on a newly built engine, I know I wouldn't ;)
Pah wont hurt it, only smokes on idle when hot.
perhaps he didn't want to bang on a smokey turbo on a newly built engine, I know I wouldn't ;)
the fail bus arrives.....
everyone knows putting a decent turbo on a newly built engine will screw the turbo. (unless you run an inline turbo feed filter)
putting smokey turbo on the newly built engine will not knacker the engine.
:cartman:
so in actual fact you have gotta find someone who will lend you a working mint boosting turbo, that you can guarantee you wont kill....
TrixNFlix
07-09-2010, 21:39
:) I enjoyed that one :D
My exact thoughts sparkie, who wants swarf going through a nice condition turbo. The oil only goes out of the exhaust anyway;)
i l k e r
08-09-2010, 08:19
My exact thoughts sparkie, who wants swarf going through a nice condition turbo. The oil only goes out of the exhaust anyway;)
and what if oil gets past the seals and dumps a whole load into the intake?
Jimmy_GTT
08-09-2010, 09:52
everyone knows putting a decent turbo on a newly built engine will screw the turbo.
WHY?
WHY?
A newly built engine with it's new various internal components will take different times to reach full efficiency and require different approaches to make sure they bed in properly. We all know that's why we use running in oil as the new components will have a few high spots that could actually need to be worn off the various mating components and thus causing contamints in the oil hence an oil and filter change and that is the reason why you don't want to use a decent working turbo as you will fubbar it.
RAJ I have a smokey T2 turbo that holds good oil pressure and boosts fine if you fancy using as you are only going to use briefly to see if your system boosts up fine I would say the turbo i have will be fine to use, i keep it as a spare as it works just a smoker you can use it for postage to yours and back to me :D
Jimmy_GTT
08-09-2010, 11:33
A newly built engine with it's new various internal components will take different times to reach full efficiency and require different approaches to make sure they bed in properly. We all know that's why we use running in oil as the new components will have a few high spots that could actually need to be worn off the various mating components and thus causing contamints in the oil hence an oil and filter change and that is the reason why you don't want to use a decent working turbo as you will fubbar it.
RAJ I have a smokey T2 turbo that holds good oil pressure and boosts fine if you fancy using as you are only going to use briefly to see if your system boosts up fine I would say the turbo i have will be fine to use, i keep it as a spare as it works just a smoker you can use it for postage to yours and back to me :D
Thanks James!
I used to use run in oil. And do not rev the angine over 3000rpm for the first 1000kms. And for the very first start I used to disconnect the ignition for some turns just to have oil pressure. But this inline oil filter is an even better solution.
But have to use a custom oil feed pipe. What kind of filter do you use?
Thanks
Thanks James!
I used to use run in oil. And do not rev the angine over 3000rpm for the first 1000kms. And for the very first start I used to disconnect the ignition for some turns just to have oil pressure. But this inline oil filter is an even better solution.
But have to use a custom oil feed pipe. What kind of filter do you use?
Thanks
When I say run in oil I just use Halfords Cheap stuff run it in for 100miles and the drop it and change engine oil filter if you have a oil feed filter aswell just a case of taking the metal gauze out and cleaning it up properly, with ref to engine oil filter I use a standard spec GTT FRAM filter, with ref to getting an oil feed filter speak to www.thinkauto.com (http://www.thinkauto.com), you don't need a custom oil feed pipe it's just a case of getting the oil feed filter to match the threads on your oil feed pipe.
Matt Cole
08-09-2010, 19:33
Im not sure Renault built the engines, put shagged/ smokey turbos on, used run in oil for 100 miles, dumped the oil and filter and changed the turbo to a new one before it hit the forecourts!!!
Yes contaminants may enter a rebuild, but generally from a less than clean working environment / parts and possibly from cheap mass produced non oe parts.
didnt the engine that came new from renault a few years ago have blackened exhaust ports - like they'd been run? my memory is getting like Marts. lol
Raj - you ever noticed how much swarf appears in the turbo oil feed filter? :scared:
i l k e r
08-09-2010, 21:07
my memory is getting like Marts. lol
no way. you're at least 25 years younger than him :wasntme:
Matt Cole
08-09-2010, 21:09
didnt the engine that came new from renault a few years ago have blackened exhaust ports - like they'd been run? my memory is getting like Marts. lol
Raj - you ever noticed how much swarf appears in the turbo oil feed filter? :scared:
Sparkie, by the way my post wasnt intended as a reply to your posts, i have just read the whole thread !:wasntme:
Where does this swarf come from? If the block is immaculately clean and all components fit correctly then ????:scared:
Tony Walker
08-09-2010, 22:20
Casting/machining drilling and tapping of threads and general dirt when being put together.
Woznaldo
08-09-2010, 22:58
to be honest, and ive checked the inline filter many many times and theres not one bit of swarf. but remember this build hasnt even seen say 30miles yet.
i am really anal when it comes to rebuilds.:ashamed: too much infact!
You can never be too clean with engine building!
Jimmy_GTT
09-09-2010, 07:48
But there is also a filter at the bottom of the oil pump.
Thundercat
09-09-2010, 09:25
With fresh engine rebuilds i use an old furbered T2 exhaust housing which has had the guts taken out and a plate welded over. Also weld shut the waste gate flap, theres plenty of cracked exhaust housing out there. Find it excellent for putting some miles on the car whilst flushing oil and water systems out.
well.. tbh it doesnt sound too good for turbo developments. At this point i would have quite a bit to say to them. But thats what you need to do. Tell them what your concerns are and im sure they will sort it out.
tbh looks like you know enuf... its not rocket science..
Markey Mark (BD)
25-09-2010, 17:24
Raj do you know what the spec of the turbo is?
I would of tried to sort the issue out with TD myself before having a rant at them on the boards to be fair!
If you run the car with the T25 and you have no boost, then run it with a known good turbo and you make boost then the issue seems to point to the turbo but it would be best to take it up with your supplier. Taking a pop on a public board is just going to get their backs up! :disagree:
Woznaldo
26-09-2010, 10:35
I would ask TD what was done originally during the rebuild, as in a specific list of inspections, parts removed and fitted. I would also ask TD to measure up your comp and tubine wheels so you know what spec you've got.
The above information is for your peace of mind and not a witch hunt.
Hopefully this current step gets it all sorted.
Tony Walker
26-09-2010, 14:14
Does the turbo create any boost at any rpm? ive got a tomcat exhaust housing but not sure on the impellor side sizings. mines pretty useless till 3500rpm
Tony Walker
26-09-2010, 14:16
Also can you see the compressor wheel spinning when you rev the car? possibly even spinning on idle.
car.crash
26-09-2010, 14:30
i have a rover tomcat turbo here that does the same, it spins but wont make any boost.
Tony Walker
26-09-2010, 14:38
Weird one, if its spinning on idle id presume the exhaust side fits well(not a massive housing on a small wheel) and the exhaust port is sealing well. You left the actuator piping disconnected too didnt you?
Tony Walker
26-09-2010, 14:47
If you pressed your hand on the compressor housing would it try to blow it away or not. You'd probably of had to rev it pretty hard a couple of times.
Markey Mark (BD)
26-09-2010, 16:29
If you pressed your hand on the compressor housing would it try to blow it away or not. You'd probably of had to rev it pretty hard a couple of times.
I was with Ian when we tried this, hardly any pressure coming from the compressor housing when you rev it hard
give it back to TD. Tell em it still dont work, yet other turbo's work on you car. Simplezzz :coffee:
hydrotec78
28-09-2010, 19:14
If it was me i would be going off my nut, but to be fair to TD let them check it over again then take it from there mate, ethier way surly there must be some cash coming your way, well i would to think so anyway ! :confused:
Well, just as suspected. Adam has fitted the turbo to a 5GTT this evening (in his own spare time, 3 hours of it) and the car ran sweet as a nut! They took it to 14 psi with no issues. As he is so sick of this ongoing saga he has even taken photos and videos of it running. Raj, Adam wants a call first thing in the morning if you can please, office opens at 8 :agree:
hydrotec78
28-09-2010, 20:41
Well, just as suspected. Adam has fitted the turbo to a 5GTT this evening (in his own spare time, 3 hours of it) and the car ran sweet as a nut! They took it to 14 psi with no issues. As he is so sick of this ongoing saga he has even taken photos and videos of it running. Raj, Adam wants a call first thing in the morning if you can please, office opens at 8 :agree:
Cant get much fairer than that as time is money ! good on ya Adam :agree:
Tony Walker
28-09-2010, 20:42
Glad thats been tried, i couldnt understand it making no pressure. Ive seen some pretty fubard turbos still producing good boost.
http://jn019.k12.sd.us/Example%20for%20Tech%20Apps/Drake.gif
Sparkie.......................where did you get that :wasntme:
At least he didn't post it in your "career advice" thread Jay :laugh:
Markey Mark (BD)
28-09-2010, 21:47
Well, just as suspected. Adam has fitted the turbo to a 5GTT this evening (in his own spare time, 3 hours of it) and the car ran sweet as a nut! They took it to 14 psi with no issues. As he is so sick of this ongoing saga he has even taken photos and videos of it running. Raj, Adam wants a call first thing in the morning if you can please, office opens at 8 :agree:
:agree: Well least thats answered one question then. Fair play to Adam for trying it in his own time.
Now whats got me confused is why does it work fine on one car but does nothing on another. :confused:
Something got to be wrong somewhere on the engine Raj although i can't work out what from what i saw.
car.crash
28-09-2010, 22:06
i think it might be cam timing, i tried turboteds unti once and didnt get full boost untill over 7k yet he got full boost at around 3.5k. he had a 285 and i had a 370 cam.
i think it might be cam timing, i tried turboteds unti once and didnt get full boost untill over 7k yet he got full boost at around 3.5k. he had a 285 and i had a 370 cam.
wow,, didnt know cam timing could have that much difference on turbo boost... :P
turbo ted
28-09-2010, 22:21
advance the cam timing boost comes in alot earlier and power finishes around 6500rpm
retard the cam timing it comes late but power all the way to 8500rpm
advance the cam timing boost comes in alot earlier and power finishes around 6500rpm
retard the cam timing it comes late but power all the way to 8500rpm
interesting.. cos i feel for the turbo i have it spools late (4500 jst about reaches full boost) and finnishes off early (say 6100rpm at 20psii) :P :( any ideas?
Tony Walker
28-09-2010, 22:29
small turbo retarded timing?
turbo ted
28-09-2010, 22:35
interesting.. cos i feel for the turbo i have it spools late (4500 jst about reaches full boost) and finnishes off early (say 6100rpm at 20psii) :P :( any ideas?a full t28 0r t25 should boost off the clock all day long
a full t28 0r t25 should boost off the clock all day long
thats what i thought :( i js dno whats wrong.... any ideas :cartman: :coffee:
Just to show people that I did do this, I photographed the evning and took two videos...
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/Adam-Turbo-Dev/IMAG0165.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/Adam-Turbo-Dev/IMAG0166.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/Adam-Turbo-Dev/IMAG0168.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/Adam-Turbo-Dev/IMAG0169.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/Adam-Turbo-Dev/IMAG0170.jpg
You'll notice we had to cover our bare hands removing the turbo there as it was so hot, as matey's car that I used was going on holiday today so I had to remove the turbo straight after use.
Now, we let the car idle for about 15 minutes to get the engine up to temperature. You can't quite hear it in this video but the turbo was surging when we applied throttle..
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/Adam-Turbo-Dev/th_VIDEO0009.jpg (http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/Adam-Turbo-Dev/?action=view¤t=VIDEO0009.mp4)
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/Adam-Turbo-Dev/th_VIDEO0008.jpg (http://s16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/Adam-Turbo-Dev/?action=view¤t=VIDEO0008.mp4)
The car only has one seat fitted so I took a video of it driving past while at full throttle, I think the video proves that there's nothing wrong with that turbo.
Now, I spent 3 hours of my own time last night proving this to everyone. There's a long story behind this turbo and none of it was mine or the company I work for fault.
I was sent an old well used turbo Raj bought off ebay, a tomcat unit, with no actuator, bracket, recirc valve. Basically a bare turbo to rebuild.
So, Raj's first complaint was the compressor housing had been rotated slightly too much, ok minor mishap. Also the turbo was producing boost but nothing over 4psi, so I replied with send it back and i'll check it out. I moved the housing into the correct position for him. The boost issue was because he had such a long actuator rod with not enough thread on it the wastegate was permanently open by about 4-5mm. Remember, I didn't fit any of this. I didn't sort out the actuator because I was so dissapointed by what I saw I refused to touch it. I did send the turbo back free of charge though.
A few months down the line I get another shout from Raj saying now there's no boost atall. This time Ian Nixon send me the turbo. I checked it as thouroughly as I could possibly could and found a freshly tapped and drilled hole in the compressor housing that had gone all the way through, it was like a pin prick. Raj areed to have the housing changed for the conventional type, which is what you see in the pictures.
Ian Nixon phoned me back on Friday last week and said there was no difference to the cars performance. He also went back on a few things he said he'd checked, which it turns out he hadn't. He phoned me today and I told him what i'd done last night, Ian's reply was basically to call me a liar. I'm sorry but when someone takes the piss like that I just won't have it. I told Ian that I don't want anything to do with this anymore and I want the carriage sorted out.
As it stands the turbo is wrapped up, in full working order and ready to be sent back to Raj when he calls me.
Raj, I've even posted footage of that turbo on a car, is that nothing to go by?
turbo ted
29-09-2010, 19:17
i just like to say that i had a lot of turbos built by adam and george at turbo developments and they have always been very helpful with me and all there turbos have been perfect, the problem is how you fit it and set up correctly with your engine.
TURBO DEVELOPMENTS :burnrubber:
Big Steve - Raider
29-09-2010, 19:20
i just like to say that i had a lot of turbos built by adam and george at turbo developments and they have always been very helpful with me and all there turbos have been perfect, the problem is how you fit it and set up correctly with your engine.
TURBO DEVELOPMENTS :burnrubber:
:agree:
Well the one i had for the Raider is fine! :ashamed:
Raj, i really dont think Adam is trying to stripe you up? :scratch:
Raj, I know you're frustrated, you're not the only one.
If you think back though, quite a few months ago, when the turbo was producing boost, 4psi you told me. What work had been done to the car since? Something has definatley happened in that space of time for it to run none now even with the wastegate clamped shut with good preload on the actuator.
Yes, Ian does have a good reputation with building engines, but between Adam and his boss, they have something like 27 years of experience specifically with working/building/rebuilding turbos etc...what's the difference?
Adam is very much in the position to give you 100 turbos for nothing if he wanted to, but there is nothing wrong with the one you have. It's been proven on video, how else could you possibly want him to prove this to you?! :scratch: Unless you want to take a day off work, get another working R5GTT to TD and pay for his mechanic to spend time fitting your turbo in front of your eyes, what could he possibly do?
The whole thing is ridiculous now. Adam has no reason to "pull your pants down", what a ridiculous statement. Why would he, what would he get out of it? If anyone knows turbos, it's a company that was built from the ground up over 20 years ago, created for this purpose. I really am at a loss here :sad2:
I totally understand your frustration Raj and can see you're stuck in the middle. But can you blame Adam for washing his hands of this?! I'd love to work out the real cost of this in man hours, it'd be a fortune! Not including the personal time he has taken to look at this to try and finally end it....yet still it goes on. Adam has been nothing but professional about this so far by keeping it off the forums until now, and has even consulted other turbo experts who also see nothing wrong with it. Not once has he ever doubted the turbo. Surely if he wanted to rip you off or something he wouldn't have used his own personal time (OUR personal time), hours after work in the office, been kind enough to send it back to you for nothing or had this constantly on his mind causing stress. No, if he didn't do that he'd have charged you for a brand new turbo, ripped you off and given you back a sh!tter.
dave j gtt
29-09-2010, 20:00
Raj, I've even posted footage of that turbo on a car, is that nothing to go by?
sorry to chip in but, could be any car with any turbo. sounds like car and 2 turbos will be coming to your work , that will sort it :confused:
Lol yeah, he is aware of this, hence the videos and the close up shots. If Raj wants to bring down 2 cars, the turbo, take a day off work and pay for use of the mechanic then he can see it is his turbo being used. Same goes the other way round, Raj could watch Ian fitting the same turbo to 2 cars, why is this all Adams way?
And what about Adam's question above? That hasn't been answered. Raj, Adam has gone out to see his mates to try and de-stress so he won't read this for a while
IF it came to it, it would be ian bringing the 5 down and swaping units so no cost to me... thank god:rolleyes:
Nope. YOU would have to watch it happening with your own eyes, face-to-face. It's the only way for you to see that it is 100% the same turbo going on both cars. Forget all the middle-man nonsense, see it for yourself
Nope. YOU would have to watch it happening with your own eyes, face-to-face. It's the only way for you to see that it is 100% the same turbo going on both cars. Forget all the middle-man nonsense, see it for yourself
well yes i would also be with ian if it came to this:agree:.
Raj, just to be sure, your saying that the turbo makes no boost whatsoever. So thats 2nd gear on the road, flat out all the way to the redline and there is no descernable boost on the gauge at all ? Or is it just that it's overly laggy, such that it'll make a few psi by 6500rpm, say ?
Lol well there would still be a cost getting Ian to fit it. Adams boss isn't going to let him spend a few hours overseeing all this while they have a business to run. The whole thing is pointless unless you watch the entire thing and either have BOTH people involved in this or NEITHER that know them, not one or the other as that isn't fair.
Matt Cole
29-09-2010, 20:51
:popcorn:
Markey Mark (BD)
29-09-2010, 21:19
Raj, just to be sure, your saying that the turbo makes no boost whatsoever. So thats 2nd gear on the road, flat out all the way to the redline and there is no descernable boost on the gauge at all ? Or is it just that it's overly laggy, such that it'll make a few psi by 6500rpm, say ?
I've took car out on few occasions when i was up there, its so flat its unreal.
Flooring it in 1st and 2nd built no boost, it prob read max 1psi but the sound and the way the car felt it just wasn't building boost. Due to where he lives obviously couldn't take it to max revs but took it high enough, past at least 5k which should of at least still felt like it was building boost even if it hadn't reached full boost.
It really did feel like there wasn't a turbo fitted to the car.:confused:
I have no doubt on Adams work just to put my point in, i've had so many turbos done by him i can't fault him so have no doubt he's correctly saying the turbo is fine.
fancy selling it now without the turbo:laugh:
Did Ian comment on how well the T2 was spooling ? Laggier than normal ? Or boosting away at 2500rpm ?
Woznaldo
29-09-2010, 22:41
If this is to do with the spec of the turbo, the only way to verify for sure would be to fit a different like spec turbo and run it again.
What spec is Adams car compared to Raj same or different cam etc? If the turbo is making good boost on another car, then by elimination, we can say that the turbo is working correctly. It may be the wrong spec for your set up?
Do you know what AR the turbine is?
A 'standard' rover unit should be fine on a gtt, I've done a couple now.
I know CR turbo did do a few with larger wheels for a couple of people on Rovertech but I thought that was just for the racers...
car.crash
30-09-2010, 09:42
Maybe the turbo is to big for a STD cam then and if you have had the top taken off the pistons it will be lower comp. As I said robbies unit that came from
TD wouldn't boost on my car untill over 7k I mean zilch not a single psi then it would suddenly fire up at 7.5k yet on his car it would boost at 3.5k roughly. Every member round his way has also had lots of dealings with TD and no issues either.
Jimmy_GTT
30-09-2010, 12:13
What type/size of exhaust system you have?
Maybe it is too freeflow and as the turbine housing a/r is much bigger than a std. unit it couldn't produce any boost...
this is getting interesting now :smokin:
RussellT
02-10-2010, 15:56
Good news everyone. Ive been in Rajs car and its now working fine with the latest iteration of the tubo fitted :-)
Markey Mark (BD)
02-10-2010, 16:09
I got a phone call from Ian earlier, he told me he recieved turbo back, bolted it on and it was boosting.
Not too sure whats changed since then but he didn't mention anything.
RussellT
02-10-2010, 16:25
2nd hand turbos are they worth it?
By the wat Raj a very nice car, looks great, goes well and sounds racey :cool:
I was picking up Doris who has had a new head and clutch fitted in time for my last event. I just might get 3rd in the LDMC Speed championship with a good last weekend 16th 17th October. ;)
RussellT
02-10-2010, 17:45
I think that the main point here is that ultimately the lads that worked on your car came through for you.
By the way IMO you need to ditch that home made air filter of yours. Its occlusive and potentially could break up and send debris into your turbo.
dave j gtt
02-10-2010, 21:57
2nd hand turbos are they worth it?
By the wat Raj a very nice car, looks great, goes well and sounds racey :cool:
I was picking up Doris who has had a new head and clutch fitted in time for my last event. I just might get 3rd in the LDMC Speed championship with a good last weekend 16th 17th October. ;)
Where did you get your turbo Russel ?
RussellT
02-10-2010, 23:48
Fom or via Ian. I am sure if Raj had gone to TD and asked for a turbo he wouldnt have had this grief. I am old and have wasted my money in the past but I dont expect you to take any notice.
Well, at least this is finally sorted, i'm actually happy for you, Raj:)
Regarding Ian and marking the turbo up, what a load of ****ing nonsence that is and he must think myself and my boss (with over 20 years running a turbo company) are total idiots. I'm sorry, but Ian is just making things up now. Like I said, he went back on things he did first time around when I spoke to him on the phone. He hadn't even checked the piping when I spoke to him the second time. Why would I change anything on the turbo when I knew full well there was nothing wrong with the unit?
I produced photo's and video's to show that it was the original turbo, I made a point of getting good visibility of the part number tag on the core, for gods sake.
I said a long while back in this thread that it was physically impossible for that turbo not to produce boost unless there was a serious leak, and i'll stick by that.
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