View Full Version : Oil pressure query
Need a little advice if OK.
I am running a refrubed oil pump well internals anyway (I have a brand new GTT oil pump spare which i am thinking of using) on my GTT thats about 2-3years old now but after recently rebuilding the bottom end I have noticed oil pressure is lower than expected.
Pressure has been taken from an aftermarket Mocal mechanical oil pressure gauge T'd into the turbo oil feed.
Oil pressure when cold
Idle 40psi-45psi
Driving about 40-45psi still
Just warmed up from cold over 3000rpm she stays at 40psi.
When engine is warm after a long drive the oil pressure does not exceed 30- 35psi over 3000rpm.
I have done a compression test across all cylinders with fanstatic results with 150 across the board.
I am using Halfords 15w/40 oil, all I can think is that the oil is possibly getting to hot and loosing it's viscosity:confused:.
I also use an external Radtec 13 row oil cooler with inline thermostat.
Might be worth taking the oil cooler off and giving it a clean through may possibly be blocked
TrixNFlix
04-06-2010, 10:36
When did you last service it James? I say this As I lost 10 psi in oil pressure hot and cold after my rebuild, it must of been full of swarf, the turbo pre filter was deffo full of swarf.I did leave it 1500 miles before it's first oil and filter change though! :wasntme::laugh:
When did you last service it James? I say this As I lost 10 psi in oil pressure hot and cold after my rebuild, it must of been full of swarf, the turbo pre filter was deffo full of swarf.I did leave it 1500 miles before it's first oil and filter change though! :wasntme::laugh:
I done my normal run the engine for 25 miles then came home dropped the oil and done 500 miles with new oil & new oil filter since then I have only done 600 miles approx.
I'll drop it again and see what comes out.
Must be something causing it as you say swarf blockage or just a blockage or the oil cooler is blocked up and doing a **** job.
TrixNFlix
04-06-2010, 10:53
Yeah, I'd just clean out your oil cooler and lines and have a look at the one way valve and banjo bolt.
On my engine with 63K all original internals in it i get just over 4 bar when cold at idle and up the rev range (60 psi)
and when hot at idle i get 2 bar (30psi) and 4 bar (60 psi) up the rev range.
This is about normal on most 5's i've played with.
thats very good oil pressure!
what oil do you use?
Magnatec 10/40.
I think the old dear that did the first 52K on the engine from new may have helped :D
Ok thought I would re-open this thread as I am still having the same fecking problem :(
Since the original post I have cleaned the external oil cooler up I have also changed engine completley for fresh re-built jobby the only bits I have re-used are the turbo oil feed from the block to the turbo everything else is totally different and not been re-used.
All I can think is that the one way valve on the oil feed to turbo is faulty/ knackered and causing a problem as the Mechanical aftermarket pressure gauge is attached just after this valve.
New filters, new oil have been used, etc...
James you wanna pop up mine tomorrow>?
James have you used an oe filter? As I was talking to Mike phase 1 16v and he said some of the filters GSF and motor factors sell have the wrong pressure setting in them. As he had a customer have a problem with poor oil pressure and smoky turbo. He spotted the filter was wrong put an oe one on and everything seemed fine after.
James you wanna pop up mine tomorrow>?
I would do matey but I can't unfortunatly got to spend some time with the Mrs's now :crap: as I have pretty much pl;ayed or being oing something with the 5 all week
I would do matey but I can't unfortunatly got to spend some time with the Mrs's now :crap: as I have pretty much pl;ayed or being oing something with the 5 all week
Okiedoky blow out :cry::laugh:
James have you used an oe filter? As I was talking to Mike phase 1 16v and he said some of the filters GSF and motor factors sell have the wrong pressure setting in them. As he had a customer have a problem with poor oil pressure and smoky turbo. He spotted the filter was wrong put an oe one on and everything seemed fine after.
Hmm I will check I didn't pay that much attention I know it's a purflux filter picked it up from GSF
James have you used an oe filter? As I was talking to Mike phase 1 16v and he said some of the filters GSF and motor factors sell have the wrong pressure setting in them. As he had a customer have a problem with poor oil pressure and smoky turbo. He spotted the filter was wrong put an oe one on and everything seemed fine after.
so your saying an oil filter can cause a smokey turbo???
so your saying an oil filter can cause a smokey turbo???
Well From what I was told oil filters have an pressure release valve in them. So if the filter is wrong you could end up with too much or too little oil pressure.
hmm.. could be the cause of my smokey turbo... i am using a gsf filter.. maybe i should try a renault one..
Jimmy_GTT
18-07-2010, 07:34
Ok thought I would re-open this thread as I am still having the same fecking problem :(
Since the original post I have cleaned the external oil cooler up I have also changed engine completley for fresh re-built jobby the only bits I have re-used are the turbo oil feed from the block to the turbo everything else is totally different and not been re-used.
All I can think is that the one way valve on the oil feed to turbo is faulty/ knackered and causing a problem as the Mechanical aftermarket pressure gauge is attached just after this valve.
New filters, new oil have been used, etc...
I'm not 100%, but as I know, the one way valve on the oil feed is also a restrictor/pressure regulator, which won't allow too much pressure into the turbo. As I know for the turbo bearing only 1bar pressure is necessary. Much more is not good and could cause oil leak.
I think you should attach the oil pressure gauge just where the original is. Is it still working? What are the readings on it?
I'm not 100%, but as I know, the one way valve on the oil feed is also a restrictor/pressure regulator, which won't allow too much pressure into the turbo. As I know for the turbo bearing only 1bar pressure is necessary. Much more is not good and could cause oil leak.
I think you should attach the oil pressure gauge just where the original is. Is it still working? What are the readings on it?
Gauge seems to be working it's defo a restriction somewhere and as you guys have said oil filter or one way valve I have another 1 way valve so will put that in place and change pickup placement
cheers for the advice peeps
james my old man had the exact same prob with the williams the problem was when he serviced it he put a cheap filter and oil in it and pressure dropped from around 60 to 15psi put an origional filter back on and stuck with duchams oil i think and oil pressure was again spot on he also used halfords oil and i think this is where your problem is mate oil and filter ;)
i've spent years worrying about oil pressure, but basically now taken the view that my engine hasnt broken yet and i spank it its probably okay! as such now i tend to just watch for a big red oil pressure warning on the main dash and ignore that the dynamic gauge is telling me:laugh:
:scared:Gauge paranoia!
We all do it at some stage, I tend to do it with the temp gauge, my car has never overheated in the 7 years I have had it but I still watch the gauges like a hawk!:wasntme:
I'm not saying thats your issue those figures seem a bit on the low side, have you tryed halfrauds 15-50 classic oil? it's a bit cheaper than mobil 1 15-50 and might be a bit better when the oil temps get high.
james my old man had the exact same prob with the williams the problem was when he serviced it he put a cheap filter and oil in it and pressure dropped from around 60 to 15psi put an origional filter back on and stuck with duchams oil i think and oil pressure was again spot on he also used halfords oil and i think this is where your problem is mate oil and filter ;)
I have used magnatec this time around with same fault i have just changed the entire turbo feed unit / oe pressure thingt from the block for my spare seems about the same will contact Renault to get a new oil filter tomoz and see what happens :)
TrixNFlix
18-07-2010, 20:37
Have you tried it without the one way valve in the oil turbo feed, james?
Have you tried it without the one way valve in the oil turbo feed, james?
No will go and try that in a mo :)
TrixNFlix
18-07-2010, 20:49
i binned mine when i rebuilt the engine, get 60psi cold 50 warm, between 15-20 psi on idle when warm, without this valve. I took the option of running without it as when i was cleaning everything for the rebuild it was so caked in crap on the inside that i felt it could hinder the turbo oil supply. Never had any problems without it, running the standard turbo i bought off you.:D
i binned mine when i rebuilt the engine, get 60psi cold 50 warm, between 15-20 psi on idle when warm, without this valve. I took the option of running without it as when i was cleaning everything for the rebuild it was so caked in crap on the inside that i felt it could hinder the turbo oil supply. Never had any problems without it, running the standard turbo i bought off you.:D
Cheers for the advice Andy, New renault filter now on order should be able to pickup late this afternoon from my local Renault. I have removed my the complete one way valve / restrictor looks pretty clean within (I have fully drilled out a spare one way valve to use just as a joiner not sure I really want to use have cleaned throughly but knowing my luck prob a tiny bit of swarf still in so I need to get an adaptor now from the top of where the one way valve use to connect to my turbo braided oil feed now :) so I need a male to male connection anyone know the thread type of the swivvel connection on the oil feed pipe from the block ??? as my braided turbo feed as the same connection the other end aswell (I am using Hosesultions braided oil feed). For some reason 1/4 bsp rings a bell (the attached pic is the style of adaptor I need the pic 1/4bsp male 1/4 bsp male)
Cheers james
Is the oil pump ok? The rotors in my pump were at the lower end of the tolerances & that caused my oil pressure to drop 10psi, down to 35psi at high rpms.
I fitted new rotors & shimmed the prv by approx 1mm & that sorted it back up to 45psi. I also binned the one way valve & that gave me another 5 psi oil pressure up to 50psi :)
I also only use genuine ren oil filters or fram ph4546 as they are nearly identical to o.e.
Is the oil pump ok? The rotors in my pump were at the lower end of the tolerances & that caused my oil pressure to drop 10psi, down to 35psi at high rpms.
I fitted new rotors & shimmed the prv by approx 1mm & that sorted it back up to 45psi. I also binned the one way valve & that gave me another 5 psi oil pressure up to 50psi :)
I also only use genuine ren oil filters or fram ph2526 as they are nearly identical to o.e.
The strange thing is this problem was on the my old engine which I only replaced as I fecked a piston and liner due to running lean and thought ohwell got an oil pressure problem aswell might aswell swap engines over. So replaced this engine with rebuilt lump as it was there and saved me stipping down I had only just recently replaced the oil pump with a refurb kit on that engine and it made no difference. The engine I am using now is a fully rebuilt and re-conditoned engine with again a refurbed oil pump aswell.
I am using a purflux filter at present but I am not sure if it is for the GTT, I have got another filter on order from Renault but I also do have a new FRAM PH4546 filter which says on the box for Renault 5 turbo, R9 turbo, R11 turbo might give this a try aswell and see what happens without the one way valve in place.
Jimmy_GTT
19-07-2010, 15:54
The strange thing is this problem was on the my old engine which I only replaced as I fecked a piston and liner due to running lean and thought ohwell got an oil pressure problem aswell might aswell swap engines over. So replaced this engine with rebuilt lump as it was there and saved me stipping down I had only just recently replaced the oil pump with a refurb kit on that engine and it made no difference. The engine I am using now is a fully rebuilt and re-conditoned engine with again a refurbed oil pump aswell.
I am using a purflux filter at present but I am not sure if it is for the GTT, I have got another filter on order from Renault but I also do have a new FRAM PH4546 filter which says on the box for Renault 5 turbo, R9 turbo, R11 turbo might give this a try aswell and see what happens without the one way valve in place.
Do you have the oem oil pressure gauge connected? What are the readings on it?
Do you have the oem oil pressure gauge connected? What are the readings on it?
Unfortunatly that has stopped working a few weeks back due to connections corroding on the cable's to the oil level sensor and the OE pressure gauge and warning light ( in fact whilst we are on the subject which connection does the orange and brown cables go on for the OE pressure gauge I have the OE pressure sensor that has one connection on the bottom and another on the side of oil feed connection to the block). This is one of my many jobs todo though and to see what readings I am getting on that :) but I never believe the OE gauge but I do admit it used to match my aftermarket mocal mechanical gauge
The strange thing is this problem was on the my old engine which I only replaced as I fecked a piston and liner due to running lean and thought ohwell got an oil pressure problem aswell might aswell swap engines over. So replaced this engine with rebuilt lump as it was there and saved me stipping down I had only just recently replaced the oil pump with a refurb kit on that engine and it made no difference. The engine I am using now is a fully rebuilt and re-conditoned engine with again a refurbed oil pump aswell.
I am using a purflux filter at present but I am not sure if it is for the GTT, I have got another filter on order from Renault but I also do have a new FRAM PH4546 filter which says on the box for Renault 5 turbo, R9 turbo, R11 turbo might give this a try aswell and see what happens without the one way valve in place.
4546 is the one mate, got it wrong in the earlier post:cartman:
4546 is the one mate, got it wrong in the earlier post:cartman:
:agree:phew was worried I hate the wrong one:laugh:
One way valve now gone got 5psi extra now seeing 40psi max, going to change the filter to the FRAM jobby :D
instead of drilling the one way valve out, why didnt you just undo the internals with an allen key? you remove the bung with the hex cut out in it and remove the spring and plunger.....
Jimmy_GTT
19-07-2010, 20:26
instead of drilling the one way valve out, why didnt you just undo the internals with an allen key? you remove the bung with the hex cut out in it and remove the spring and plunger.....
But if you do that (either drilling or disassembling) your turbo won't have lubrication / oil pressure for some engine turns when cranking...
instead of drilling the one way valve out, why didnt you just undo the internals with an allen key? you remove the bung with the hex cut out in it and remove the spring and plunger.....
:laugh::ashamed: got a spare just done it took me a few secs :wasntme:
New FRAM filter also in place now aswell try tomoz
TrixNFlix
19-07-2010, 21:28
instead of drilling the one way valve out, why didnt you just undo the internals with an allen key? you remove the bung with the hex cut out in it and remove the spring and plunger.....
have you tried undoing an allen key thats been stuck for 20 years?, not a sniff,.:laugh:
TrixNFlix
19-07-2010, 21:29
But if you do that (either drilling or disassembling) your turbo won't have lubrication / oil pressure for some engine turns when cranking...
Ive never had a problem.:)
SCHWARTZ
19-07-2010, 21:58
did you refurb the pump james? if not id defo give it a check. U sure it aint a campus one:crap::D
TrixNFlix
19-07-2010, 22:00
did you refurb the pump james? if not id defo give it a check. U sure it aint a campus one:crap::D
:laugh: Thats it make him feel confident:agree:
SCHWARTZ
19-07-2010, 22:04
especially now its getting nice and hot:laugh::wasntme:
Tony Walker
19-07-2010, 22:05
If your oil is getting too thin once hot, have you checked your oil thermostat is opening. check that your oil cooler gets hot once your oil is fully up to temp. if its not then your oils just going to overheat.
:laugh: Thats it make him feel confident:agree:
:laugh: it's not a campus pump, I have a couple of those uprated one's in the shed:laugh:
But if you do that (either drilling or disassembling) your turbo won't have lubrication / oil pressure for some engine turns when cranking...
The pressure rises equally as fast on startup without the one way valve fitted on my van, my gauge is above the one way valve. Ive had no problems without it;)
Just like to thank you all for your assistance, I removed the one way valve internals and took the car for a drive got a max of 40psi, then changed the GSF New filter for the New FRAM jobby I have and oil pressure went straight up to 50psi.
Many thanks low oil pressure problem now sorted.
Now got to sort my higher than normal coolant temps I noticed on my way to work this morning, thinking this is a stat failure. Will have a look this eve.
you got a part code and price for the FRAM one as i can find one listed for the GT
fram ph 4546, listed to fit r5/9/11t
fram ph 4546, listed to fit r5/9/11t
:agree: cost about £9.00 from my local motor factors car parts and accesories.
I forgot about this thread. I'm glad you got this sorted James :)
Just thought I'd add some pictures as I changed my filter today from a GSF one to an oe from Mike. You can see the difference, the main one from my point of view is the oe one is slimmer and gives more clearance for the bottom rad hose. oe is the one on the right.
Jimmy_GTT
07-08-2010, 19:53
It is a Purflux filter as I can see. Can you please write it's number? THX
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