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All I will say is...HA!
All i'll say is............ what a load of bollocks.
THE MASTER
08-09-2008, 00:04
wot the fff http://www.itv-f1.com/home.aspx
Lewis Hamilton has had his Belgian Grand Prix victory overturned by the stewards, handing the win to title rival Felipe Massa, who finished second on the road.
Hamilton was given a 25-second penalty for cutting the Bus Stop chicane during his wheel-to-wheel battle for the lead with Kimi Raikkonen during the closing laps.
Although the McLaren driver appeared to lift off and was repassed by Raikkonen on the exit of the corner, the stewards ruled that he had gained an advantage by short-cutting the circuit.
"The stewards, having received a report from the race director and having met with the drivers and team managers involved, have...determine a breach of the regulations has been committed by the competitor and impose the penalty referred to," said an FIA statement.
Hamilton was deemed to have "cut the chicane and gained an advantage", thereby breaching Article 30.3(a) of the sporting regulations and Appendix L chapter 4 Article 2 (g) of the International Sporting Code.
With 25 seconds added to his race time, Hamilton has dropped to third in the classification behind BMW Sauber’s Nick Heidfeld.
The decision brings about a six-point swing in Massa's favour in the championship standings, reducing Hamilton's lead from eight to two points.
Raikkonen crashed out of the race on the penultimate lap and is now 19 points behind Hamilton with five rounds remaining.
Revised Belgian Grand Prix result
1. MASSA Ferrari
2. HEIDFELD BMW
3. HAMILTON McLaren*
4. ALONSO Renault
5. VETTEL Toro Rosso
6. KUBICA BMW
7. BOURDAIS Toro Rosso
8. WEBBER Red Bull
9. GLOCK Toyota*
10. KOVALAINEN McLaren
11. COULTHARD Red Bull
12. ROSBERG Williams
13. SUTIL Force India
14. NAKAJIMA Williams
15. BUTTON Honda
16. TRULLI Toyota
17. FISICHELLA Force India
R. RAIKKONEN Ferrari
R. BARRICHELLO Honda
R. PIQUET Renault
*25-second time penalty
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Mudslinger
08-09-2008, 00:52
Have to say that was one of the most entertaining ends ive seen to a f1 race in ages and i think its scandalous that hamilton has been punished for that.
:sad2:
THE MASTER
08-09-2008, 01:14
think ive sussed wots going on
max liked the germans
perhaps bernie also likes dressing up
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/kaskham/DSCF0209.jpg:laugh: for those that cant work it out thats a picky of the italiano police. . maybe burnie has a few of those uniforms
Didn't see the race but a few people have said Lewis let him back past & didn't re-pass till after the start finish line, how can he be penailised for that, thats the correct procedure!!
Didn't see the race but a few people have said Lewis let him back past & didn't re-pass till after the start finish line, how can he be penailised for that, thats the correct procedure!!
Exactly.. And as Mart said on the temp. forum.. How can Ferrari's pit **** up at Valencia be let off, but this penalised!
RussellT
08-09-2008, 17:31
100% agree amazing Ferrari bias. Mind you Massa's engine is to be checked by scrutineers before Monza. Watch this space.
If the appeal isnt upheld F1 will lose its last vestage (which is less subsatantial than Rab C Nesbits string vest anyway) of credibility in my eyes, . The drivers should all back Hamiltoon over this. It makes a complete mockery of the sport if only red cars can win or they are trying to keep it close untill the last race.
5alldaway
08-09-2008, 17:33
what a complete farce, the sport is only about 1 team now! that drive by hamilton was of champion calibre
thing is when kovalineon or however its spelt, went to overtake webber and colided with him, there was another car that jumped the actual corner aswell, think it was a force india, why didnt that car get a penalty?
also raikonen going round the outside(off the track) a lap before he spun, anyone remember that 1?
and finally, whenever u hit anyone it seems like there will be a drive through penalty, looks like we wont be seeing anymore overtaking then, COONTS!:mad:
http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html
Get it signed lads! 14400 peeps so far ;)
Sad to say it but it's just typical F1 really isn't it! McLaren are appealing the penalty and you'd like to think they'll have the victory handed back to them but who knows...
I still think Hmailton is the best driver and he'll win the championship. :cool:
17326 signatures now that I'd added mine.
At least the F1 politicians are consistent(ly ridiculous).
I still think Hmailton is the best driver and he'll win the championship.Not if the corrupt bosses with their no doubt vested interests have their way.
Are we supposed to believe that last year in Brazil his car really did lose it's drive for just enough seconds to guarantee he could not win the championship then carry on as if nothing had happened?
Maybe the deal was that the red team had to lose the German but they'd be given a couple more championships anyway?
McLaren are appealing the penalty and you'd like to think they'll have the victory handed back to them but who knows...
Yep, and the appeal has been accepted by the FIA, which means Massa's win & the current drivers' table standings are now of a provisional status.
Its over 24,000 signatures now, not bad going for a couple of days!
There's some pretty influential people slagging off the decision now, but I doubt it'll make any difference.... :(
For those that haven't had a go....
http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html
;)
THE MASTER
10-09-2008, 00:59
im ashamed to say that i own a FIAT punto sporting. to be honest its a pile of SHHit like all FIATS :coffee:
think ive sussed wots going on
max liked the germans
perhaps bernie also likes dressing up
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/kaskham/DSCF0209.jpg:laugh: for those that cant work it out thats a picky of the italiano police. . maybe burnie has a few of those uniforms
sh1t!! they remind me of zee ss
THE MASTER
10-09-2008, 01:32
McLaren has confirmed that it will go ahead with its appeal against the penalty imposed on Lewis Hamilton after last Sunday’s Belgian Grand Prix.
Hamilton won the race on the track but was demoted to third place by the stewards, who adjudged him to have gained an unfair advantage by cutting a chicane while disputing the lead with Ferrari’s Kimi Raikkonen.
The Woking team notified the governing FIA of its intention to challenge the verdict on Sunday night, but has been mulling over whether to press ahead with an appeal or accept its lot to enable it to focus exclusively on this weekend’s Italian GP.
The team released a statement on Tuesday confirming that it has now formally filed an appeal.
“Following our decision to register our intention to appeal the penalty handed out to Lewis Hamilton by the FIA stewards at the 2008 Belgian Grand Prix, we hereby confirm that we have now lodged notice of appeal,” said team CEO Martin Whitmarsh.
The case will be settled by the FIA's International Court of Appeal.
..............
read the last line there is a T missing
:eek:
MattChester
10-09-2008, 09:51
Its a joke :sad2:
31284 Total Signatures
Northerner
10-09-2008, 11:49
I'm going to stick my neck out and agree with the F1 drivers and F1 stewards that Hamilton did gain an advantage from cutting the chicane. [Flame jacket on]
I'm going to stick my neck out and agree with the F1 drivers and F1 stewards that Hamilton did gain an advantage from cutting the chicane. [Flame jacket on]
In some way I have to agree..as if it was a wall there instead of grass you'd be in it and out of the race completely..
How?
The red car was going 4.2mph faster by the finish line.
How can the slower car that's being overtaken have the advantage.
Red car on the inside. Could have stayed there. Swapped to outside to severely chop and aggressively defend. So Hamilton swaps to inside and takes him up the inside just the same as he did with Massa and Piquet in Hockenhiem.
Actually it's a little surprising that they didn't give him a penalty for overtaking those two in Hockenheim because his overtakes were deemed to be not in the interests of Ferrari and Renault.
Is F1 motor racing or just power playing between corporations and corrupt officials?
If there was a wall there Reikanen (spelling!) would have been out too as they were tangled.
More realistically, Hamilton would not have tried to over take just as no-one over took in Valencia; the most dull and boring race of the year. We had to look to the pits for action. There was nil on the track. Unable to stand the waste of time I gave up and vacuumed the house instead.
In some way I have to agree..as if it was a wall there instead of grass you'd be in it and out of the race completely..
How?
The red car was going 4.2mph faster by the finish line.
How can the slower car that's being overtaken have the advantage.?
Not 'the' advantage, 'an' advantage. He'd be even slower if he hadnt have cut the chicane.
If you don't penalise for cutting chicanes, all drivers might as well think sod going round bends, ill just cut across them.
Northerner
10-09-2008, 12:08
Lets be sensible - There is no anti-Hamilton conspiracy as some people (esp. in the press) would like to think.
IMHO - Hamiton didn't fully surrender an advantage before overtaking before La Source.
What he should have done is followed Kimi through La Source, got a decent tow up the hill and overtaken Kimi before Les Combes. If he had done that, there would be no issue to contend with.
However, I doubt that the FIA will not overrule the stewards as this will open the appeal floodgates.
Car use the run offs all the time. Been doing so for ever. Hence the rule about letting the passed car past.
Reikanan got more drive and momentum from the next run off he used and gained advantage. Just that he hit the wall just after.
I think he over took Coultard in a wet race last year using the run off which counted for some points. Was his dropped two place?
Obviously not. Quite a lot of use of the run offs was made. Different stewards, different policy.
It's been clear for some time that any chance they get, they penalise McLaren.
Go back to that shameful farce at the Indianapolis a few years ago when only Ferrari and a couple of back markers ran. And they deemed that counted to the championship table.
In some way I have to agree..as if it was a wall there instead of grass you'd be in it and out of the race completely..
No, because Lewis wasn't skidding out of control. He took the short-cut as Kimi had shut the door on him, which as a result, would've caused both cars to collide had Lewis not made that move.
If you search YouTube, there's a video of the camera mounted on Lewis's car - You can plainly hear that he doesn't get back on the throttle fully until Kimi has passed.
If the FIA let this one go, and the altered post-race results stand, it'll be the biggest farce since TinyTim said he'd be at all the rtoc events this year ;)
One could equally make the point the Reikanan should have been penalised for shoving an overatking car off the track.
One could equally make the point the Reikanan should have been penalised for weaving in front of an over taking car.
How could he have been going even slower? He clearly had more drive in the wet. If he'd followed right at gearbox of Reikanan through the corner then he'd have been going at the same speed or faster by the finish line. Not slower.
Not 'the' advantage, 'an' advantage. He'd be even slower if he hadnt have cut the chicane.
If you don't penalise for cutting chicanes, all drivers might as well think sod going round bends, ill just cut across them.
Northerner
10-09-2008, 12:22
The FIA have penalised other teams such as Renault (Monza 2006) and not just McLaren.
Regarding Indy, would it be fair to penalise the bridgestone runners because the michelin runners had defective tyres?
BTW, I'm not a Ferrari fan...but don't hold much respect for McLaren either
Northerner
10-09-2008, 12:26
Kimi correctly closed the door on Hamilton at the bus stop but as I don't have the telemetry I can't say if Hamilton attempted to brake once the overtake had failed or what his throttle position was on the straight before La Source.
The FIA have penalised other teams such as Renault (Monza 2006) and not just McLaren.
Ok, and let's look back at how much the FIA fined Massa/Ferrari for the pit-lane shananigans at Valencia...That'll be 10k Euros fine for Massa then. Probably about a day or 2's wages for him.
Then what about the cheating scandal between Ferrari & McLaren - I recall McLaren getting stung with a substantial fine, but did anything happen to Ferrari? After all, it was one of their guys that allegedly passed over the information, but did they get so much as a slap on the wrist? Did they f*ck.
Kimi correctly closed the door on Hamilton at the bus stop but as I don't have the telemetry I can't say if Hamilton attempted to brake once the overtake had failed or what his throttle position was on the straight before La Source.
As I say, the video is on YouTube for all to see.
The FIA have penalised other teams such as Renault (Monza 2006) and not just McLaren.
And who won the championship that year? Alonso in a Renault per chance? Of course the FIA weren't playing the intervene card then as well...
Found the vid' on another website:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ovii_wwwformula
Notice the difference in throttle/acceleration whilst Hamilton is waiting for Kimi to pass, compared to once Kimi has passed him.
What can't speak, can't lie...
Wait until Bruno Senna gets into the mix!! :cool:
Wait until Bruno Senna gets into the mix!! :cool:
You know that. If he's half as good as what his uncle was... :cool: :)
Andrew Cooke
10-09-2008, 13:14
You know that. If he's half as good as what his uncle was... :cool: :)
he'll be almost as good as Piquet:laugh:
Northerner
10-09-2008, 13:26
Found the vid' on another website:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ovii_wwwformula
Notice the difference in throttle/acceleration whilst Hamilton is waiting for Kimi to pass, compared to once Kimi has passed him.
What can't speak, can't lie...
I can hear that he initially has traction issues then its full throttle whilst possibly short shifting
We hear 2 different things then.
If Ron Denis is telling the truth, then Hamilton only overtook straight away because the Race Director said he could as they'd complied with the rules in his opinion.
Northerner
10-09-2008, 20:51
If Ron Denis is telling the truth, then Hamilton only overtook straight away because the Race Director said he could as they'd complied with the rules in his opinion.
I would be suprised if they were able to ask the question and get an answer back in the time it took for the maneouvre to take place.
Anyway, i'm sure there will be plenty more controversy surrounding Hamilton in the future.
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
At the old bus stop chicane was a wall...or tyre barrier...
Now, would he have done that manouvre if that was still the case ?...errrrm, I dont think so.
It could have been avoided. It was obvious with speed at which he was catching the Ferrari that he was going to overtake sooner rather than later. But for me his decision making has been piss poor, he doesn't seem to go with the percentages.
There will always be sour grapes seeing as he's been blown up to become the next Brit World Champ.
Personally, I don't want to see him win it.
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
At the old bus stop chicane was a wall...or tyre barrier...
Now, would he have done that manouvre if that was still the case ?...errrrm, I dont think so.
You could say that about a lot of wet races though - It's like how Alonso said something along those lines, of how he should have taken the corner properly and if it was a wall, he would have been out of the race.. Well, I don't remember Alonso hanging his helmet up when he cut a chicane during Quali on Saturday..
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
thats true but he's allowed LOL
he's driving the right car this year :D
Lol.. What, in that it's a Renault?
It really makes me sick though, how all the other drivers went on with themselves about how what Hamilton did was wrong, bla bla bla, we all want Hamilton to lose spiel.. So goddamn biased and hypocritical. They would be saying a totally different thing if they were in Hamiltons shoes.
Yea, something like that :p
Chris Hebden
15-09-2008, 13:03
Lol.. What, in that it's a Renault?
It really makes me sick though, how all the other drivers went on with themselves about how what Hamilton did was wrong, bla bla bla, we all want Hamilton to lose spiel.. So goddamn biased and hypocritical. They would be saying a totally different thing if they were in Hamiltons shoes.
Wasnt it Sir Jackie Stewart who said that exact same thing, they are all opposing what Hamilton did becasue it wasnt them?!?!
I suppose it has the effect of making more overtaking 'cause a lot of time when someone overtakes now they let him go past and over take again.
Northerner
15-09-2008, 15:20
Lol.. What, in that it's a Renault?
It really makes me sick though, how all the other drivers went on with themselves about how what Hamilton did was wrong, bla bla bla, we all want Hamilton to lose spiel.. So goddamn biased and hypocritical. They would be saying a totally different thing if they were in Hamiltons shoes.
So every F1 driver is jealous of Hamilton? I doubt that...
Chris Hebden
15-09-2008, 15:21
Fair comment Ian, i think nearly every overtake happened twice! I thought it spoilt it to be honest, because i think its all about one person trying to tame shed load of bhp and competing against other individuals as fiercely as safety requires it!
Well, no.. I didn't necessarily say 'Jealous' (although I reckon a fair few are).. You have to remember Hamilton IS the competition.. and a strong competitor at that. Any chance of him being penalised / set back, they are going to support..
How can you not see that the other teams are obviously going to support the stuards decisions!?
So every F1 driver is jealous of Hamilton? I doubt that...
So what you think is that the rest of the field don't give a t0ss that Ron thinks they're not good enough to drive his cars. Some of them know they're not good enough and are happy to be driving any F1 car for as long as they can.
So what you think is that much of the rest of the field don't give a t0ss that they are driving a car that is not possibly able to compete with Mclaren or Ferrari and so they as a driver look 2nd rate but are still happy to finish in the middle or back of the field each time.
So what you think is that much of the rest of the field don't give a t0ss that Hamilton went straight into a top team and came 2nd (3rd) in the championship in his first year when they didn't have any chance and they knew that before stepping into their car.
Did you see that Ron had a button marked FIA that he pushed to no doubt get the not either way from the race director during the race?
No Ian, of cause not.. They all love being nobody drivers in nobody teams and would absolutely hate to be in Hamilton's shoes.
Northerner
15-09-2008, 18:50
So what you think is that the rest of the field don't give a t0ss that Ron thinks they're not good enough to drive his cars. Some of them know they're not good enough and are happy to be driving any F1 car for as long as they can.
So what you think is that much of the rest of the field don't give a t0ss that they are driving a car that is not possibly able to compete with Mclaren or Ferrari and so they as a driver look 2nd rate but are still happy to finish in the middle or back of the field each time.
So what you think is that much of the rest of the field don't give a t0ss that Hamilton went straight into a top team and came 2nd (3rd) in the championship in his first year when they didn't have any chance and they knew that before stepping into their car.
I don't know any current F1 drivers personally to ask, do you?
You support Hamilton, I don't.
Lets move on.
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
Its a Ferrari conspiracy, If one of their drivers did what Hamilton did, nothing more would have come of it.
Turning into a great season tho. Just need more rain again for the next race, :D
You support Hamilton
Not really.
If Raikanen had been the one pushed of then penalised I'd feel it was just as farcical.
Though maybe less of the feeling that it's a conspiracy.
5alldaway
16-09-2008, 01:53
so whats the verdict on massa then? world class driver or qualify low on fuel, get pole, drive to the flag in the fastest car on the grid? anyone ever notice that he never comes through the pack once he is in it? id much rather see sato in that car
Northerner
16-09-2008, 07:35
so whats the verdict on massa then? world class driver or qualify low on fuel, get pole, drive to the flag in the fastest car on the grid? anyone ever notice that he never comes through the pack once he is in it? id much rather see sato in that car
I think he is like Ralf Schumacher - if he is at the front and the car works well, he can win.
But I don't think he is on the same level as Alonso and Hamilton.
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