View Full Version : Differences in F4R cranks ?
Random one, last week I mullered a crank on the dyno when a main bearing failed for no aparant reason, and starved a big end as a result. Whatever, out it came again.
Anyway, bought a new crank, aparantly from a 182, has "03" dot-stamped into the end. Previous crank had "01" so assuming that's its year of mfg.
I'm no stranger to engine builds, but this one looks dodgy to me. Problem (or maybe it isn't a problem at all ?) is that there is only 1 oil way per main journal in the new crank. Old crank had 2 per main journal, 180° apart so that at any crank angle there was always at least one hole in line with the oil-filled channel in the upper-most main bearing. IE, big ends got a constant feed of oil. New crank means that the b/end's will only have oil supply 50% of the time - is that normal ? Or should I be using main shells that have a groove in both halves, not just the upper most ? Do later renault engines use different shells ? Anyone with diaologys confirm that for me ?
The shells I've used are OE renualt this time, can anyone tell me if Renault list a later set of (grooved) shells ?
Andrew Cooke
25-04-2010, 14:51
bit off topic, I thought that the 182 cranks had additional counter weights and thicker webs than the earlier cranks, NVH stuff. Probably wrong though..
Just had a look on my dialogys for the OE Standard size shells for the f4r engines appears the shells are the same part numbers but diferrent crank number for the earlier model
Mk 2 1 172 2.0 F4R 730 JC5 089 CB0M -Big end 7701471262 main shells 7701478839 Crankshaft 7700101173
Mk 2 2 172 2.0 F4R 732/736 CB1N Big end 7701471262 main shells 7701478839 Crankshaft 8200037836
Mk2 2 182 2.0 F4R 738 JC5 130 CB22 7701471262 main shells 7701478839 Crankshaft 8200037836
Hope this helps
Andy, yeah, if the thread I read on cliosport earlier today was accurate. So actually mine is still a 172 crank with smaller counter-weights, but a later model. I wonder why they beefed the later one up ??
James, thanks for checking! Now here's something else: I have 2 part numbers for the main shells. Renault individially boxes each shell, so there are 2 part numbers, one for the upper grooved shell and one for the lower cap shell. P/N's I have are:
82 00 839 982
77 00 108 715
Do they mean anything in dialogys james ?
..and james, you were right, moved the thread to the right section :laugh:
I have just realised, there is likely a part number on the outer-box that the 10 smaller individual shell boxes came in. It's in the garage, I'll check that tomorrow. Suspect it may corrispond with the P/N you have listed there James.
Andy, yeah, if the thread I read on cliosport earlier today was accurate. So actually mine is still a 172 crank with smaller counter-weights, but a later model. I wonder why they beefed the later one up ??
James, thanks for checking! Now here's something else: I have 2 part numbers for the main shells. Renault individially boxes each shell, so there are 2 part numbers, one for the upper grooved shell and one for the lower cap shell. P/N's I have are:
82 00 839 982
77 00 108 715
Do they mean anything in dialogys james ?
I will check those part numbers tonight when I get in from work :)
Bad news on the crank!!
I have a mullered 182 lump sat in the back of the garage somewhere, I could drag it out and pop the sump off if you want? take a peek at the bearings... might not get chance until the weekend now tho?
Bad news on the crank!!
I have a mullered 182 lump sat in the back of the garage somewhere, I could drag it out and pop the sump off if you want? take a peek at the bearings... might not get chance until the weekend now tho?
Thats a big ask m8, so don't do it unless you're really bored :) would just satisfy my concerns to know that renault intended it this way and that it isn't a problem. Ofcourse, I still won't know which is going to be the more reliable design.
Andy, yeah, if the thread I read on cliosport earlier today was accurate. So actually mine is still a 172 crank with smaller counter-weights, but a later model. I wonder why they beefed the later one up ??
James, thanks for checking! Now here's something else: I have 2 part numbers for the main shells. Renault individially boxes each shell, so there are 2 part numbers, one for the upper grooved shell and one for the lower cap shell. P/N's I have are:
82 00 839 982
77 00 108 715
Do they mean anything in dialogys james ?
Hmmm neither those part numbers exist according to my dialogys and I am running the latest version aswell:scratch: (Screen dumps attached)
Thanks for checking James. Turns out the box that the 10 shells came in has the p/n 7701478839 - the same as you listed at the start. Guess it must be normal then :crap:
Rob@Backyardracing
01-05-2010, 02:49
hmmmmmmm, not the best out come you wanted to see i guess... bring on your zinc additives ;)...............
I'm past worrying about the crank rob, more concerned about solving this inlet valve problem :mad: why on gods earth would 2 valves from the same cylinder not want to close 100% once the lifters got pressure. tried dropping the lifters 0.3mm each the other day, solved the problem at cranking speeds but not at 1000rpm, likes to idle on 3 pots. Don't fancy tuning it if the valves also are not closing at high rpms, I have no way of knowing. I'd like to put some springs in but time is not on my side, again.
Andrew Cooke
01-05-2010, 11:46
I'm past worrying about the crank rob, more concerned about solving this inlet valve problem :mad: why on gods earth would 2 valves from the same cylinder not want to close 100% once the lifters got pressure. tried dropping the lifters 0.3mm each the other day, solved the problem at cranking speeds but not at 1000rpm, likes to idle on 3 pots. Don't fancy tuning it if the valves also are not closing at high rpms, I have no way of knowing. I'd like to put some springs in but time is not on my side, again.
I doubt it's springs, have you swapped the lifters? presumably they pump up, but don't release pressure, I don't know how the galleries work, but can you have a blockage?
Hi Andy
I wish it was that simple. Here's what I done so far:
Swapped roller rockers around, new lifters. PS, lifters don't actually lift, they're squirters that just fill the 'cup' in the rocker in which they sit. I decked 0.3mm off each lifter to increase lash, unsure of the exact ratio but it should have equated to about 0.15mm at the valve. Solved problem at crank, not when running.
Valves out, dead straight, cut back into seat, sealing 100% and not sticking. I also don't imagine it's the springs but hoping stiffer ones might atleast make the problem go away.
Oil feed to each lifter is equal. One common gallery for all inlet lifters, the offending valves are some way from the actual feed point, no blockages - gallery is huge in diamater.
I measured lobes on the cam, all identical, no funny bumps on the base circle or anything else that would create lift during the base circle bit.
Totally stumped, driving me crazy.
Might just be coincidence but the same clyinder had a cracked ring land late last year - also the same cylinder that the b/end failed in last week.
Here's something else though. I think I've had the problem for a while, it's just a lot more noticable now with the lairy cams. I have a lot of oil pressure, like 50psi idle when, 90psi @ 3000rpm hot. Might I just be overcomming the springs ? Can't imagine I am. Fancy pulling rocker off again and gauging the strength of each spring, just not sure how I'd go about doing it.
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