View Full Version : Clutch &or Cable Problem Or Something Else....?
as some of you know im trying to get to the bottom of why my car isnt boosting.
anyway,
i had a problem with my clutch pedal rachet being worn, so i have replaced it with a good one.
i then routed the clutch cable through the white piece on the pedal and then through the black toothed piece..
i then removed the pedal stop... then depressed the pedal and then let it come back up. i heard a few clicks so i refitted the pedal stop and pressed the pedal for a 2nd time. job done.
i proceed to take the car around the block to check on the boosting issue and the car changed through the gears as you would expect.....
then when on my way back to mine i went from 1st to 2nd but could not get 2nd...or any other gear, i couldnt even put it back into 1st.
i got it home and did the pedal thing again, took it out and it was fine..... then again on the way back the same thing happens..no gears:scratch:
the cable isnt a genuine renault but an aftermarket one. its slighly loosISH on the clutch fork.
do you think its the cable thats causing this?
Fit a genuine cable mate, that will sort it. Sounds like the clutch cable is too long. I had to bodge a spacer in with one to make it work, the aftermarket cables are crap really.
Also leave the stop in place when resetting the ratchet.
TrixNFlix
03-03-2010, 17:07
Deffo clutch cable Raj. The cable should have a decent amount of tension when not pushed
ok, ive got a new genuine cable here.:agree:
so any tips for fitting the clutch cable when the car is not in the air?
i know to tie some thread to the cable before i remove it from the footwell, then tie the thread to the new cable and pul it back through... but its just that plastic bit that you have to push fit into the footwell that annoys me.
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
it should push itself in when u tension it mate.
if the genuine cable doesnt sort ur problem out ,then just put a washer or 2 over the cable before u put it through the bulkhead!
update:
fitted a genuine renault clutch cable today:agree:
now i havent actually drove the car as such since fitting it, but i drove it back and forward off the drive.
think is, it sort of feels worse than the non genuine cable:scratch: when i press the clutch pedal down,it gets to about half way down and then it feels like it looses tension. its that poppy clutch feel. now im sure ive heard it mentioned that the valeo clutches do this??
also the biting point is very near the floor,which doesnt feel right to me!
also after my bro pulled the cable over the clutch fork "which he said was pretty hard to get over the fork"while i pushed the pedal rachet towards the bulkhead and then pressed the pedal a few times, the cable still kind of feels loose at the fork end:scratch:... i mean i could pull the cable back off the fork without applying to much force.
doesnt sound quite right to me:scratch:
is the clutch cable routed a specific way?
ive routed mine from the fork to 1 clip on the chassis arm(i think there are 2 clips on the chassis arm but i snapped one), then from the clip to the next clip which i thin is located on the subframe near the rear engine mount... from here and around the steering rack boot and up through the hole into the drivers footwell.
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
it doent matter where u route it mate, mine is the same, u can pull it off the forks really easily and the biting point is on the floor. if u dont like it put a washer or 2 over the cable end before u feed it through the bulk head
New poster! (less than 10 posts)
it doent matter where u route it mate, mine is the same, u can pull it off the forks really easily and the biting point is on the floor. if u dont like it put a washer or 2 over the cable end before u feed it through the bulk head
well im not going to remove the cable again thats for sure, it was a pain fitting it anyway:crap:
if thats the way the pedal is supposed to feel i suppose ill have to stick with it:crap:
how new is the clutch itself ?
also the clutch fork pivot bush could be worn inside the gearbox .
small play at the bush will magnify itself at the top where the fork is
being pulled .
how new is the clutch itself ?
also the clutch fork pivot bush could be worn inside the gearbox .
small play at the bush will magnify itself at the top where the fork is
being pulled .
the clutch is new,its not even seen 20miles yet.
right,
i still havent got around to sorting this clutch problem:sad2:. bare in mind that the car isnt taxed and have only been using the car on a private road to check this issue.
can anyone confirm they have also tried the "put a washer over the cable before you feed it through the bulkhead" method? as mentioned above?
im want to get to the bottom of this.
why is it that the cable is still loosISH.? i can easily enough slide the cable off the folk(it doesnt litterally slide off, i have to grip it a pull it off but its easy to do so) and slide it back on again.
the clutch fork is nice and solid without the cable and with the cable attached.
the cable is a new genuine renault.
the clutch pedal/ratchet bits + bump stop have been replaced.
so at what point is the cable loosing its tension?:confused:
is there anyone local willing to come and sort this out for me?
im really not a fan of fitting things twice only to be told i may have to remove it again:sad2:
bump.
come on folks,
i cant figure this out alone:scratch: someone must know a 100% sure fix for this.
again bump:rolleyes:
im stuck if i cant get this sorted. its the only thing left stopping me from taking the car out:crap:
TrixNFlix
25-04-2010, 07:42
Can only think your cable is not routed properly Raj. I have the thicker cable from cgb which had the same problem as your having, instead of finding out the proper reason for it's looseness I choose the quick fix method with washers. Snip some washers bend them so you can thread the cable through them then rebend them back into shape. These will sit on the gearbox fork and create more tension.
Can only think your cable is not routed properly Raj. I have the thicker cable from cgb which had the same problem as your having, instead of finding out the proper reason for it's looseness I choose the quick fix method with washers. Snip some washers bend them so you can thread the cable through them then rebend them back into shape. These will sit on the gearbox fork and create more tension.
We are having the same problem with Chris's aka fidos got a raiders gtt, we have about 4" of slack with a brand new Renault cable :confused:
Can only think your cable is not routed properly Raj. I have the thicker cable from cgb which had the same problem as your having, instead of finding out the proper reason for it's looseness I choose the quick fix method with washers. Snip some washers bend them so you can thread the cable through them then rebend them back into shape. These will sit on the gearbox fork and create more tension.
ok so thats the quick fix washer method. but i really do want to sort it out properly, im not keen on quick fixes only for them to show there ugly faces again.
We are having the same problem with Chris's aka fidos got a raiders gtt, we have about 4" of slack with a brand new Renault cable :confused:
4" of slack! thats alot.
with mine i can move the clutch pedal about 1/2" before you even feel any sort of tension.
and at the clutch fork end the fork itself is pretty solid,with just a very slight bit of movement, i can push the fork towards the engine ever so slightly(estimate about 2-3mm) its not even noticable. and i can slide the cable off the fork quite easy
TrixNFlix
25-04-2010, 18:33
ok so thats the quick fix washer method. but i really do want to sort it out properly, im not keen on quick fixes only for them to show there ugly faces again.
I've done 1300 miles with no problems, so no ugly faces for me. :p
Inside the gearbox where the clutch fork sits there is a metal nipple (ooo err!)
On said metal nipple should sit a white plastic cover/tab/bush whatever you want to call it. if this is either missing or worn you will get the feeling on the clutch pedal your talking about.
I know this as I forgot to fit my new one when I was re-assembling my engine and gearbox and I didn't realise untill I had the very issue your talking about.
I just shimmed the cable where it goes through the fork as i couldn't be arsed to take it all apart again.
I then fitted a new clutch a year or so later and replace said bush and bob's your uncle the cable didn't need shimming:)
Inside the gearbox where the clutch fork sits there is a metal nipple (ooo err!)
On said metal nipple should sit a white plastic cover/tab/bush whatever you want to call it. if this is either missing or worn you will get the feeling on the clutch pedal your talking about.
I know this as I forgot to fit my new one when I was re-assembling my engine and gearbox and I didn't realise untill I had the very issue your talking about.
I just shimmed the cable where it goes through the fork as i couldn't be arsed to take it all apart again.
I then fitted a new clutch a year or so later and replace said bush and bob's your uncle the cable didn't need shimming:)
how exactly do you shim the cable where i goes throught the fork?
id rather do something at the fork end as apposed to putting washers over the cable before pushing it through the bulkhead.
do you have any pics of what was done at the fork end? im crap if i dont know what im doing without visuals:crap:
No pics I'm afraid:(
All I did was disengage the cable at the pedal end so it went slack. Then put the shims (I used some big washers that I cut a groove in with a grinder) on the side where the cable is held in place, the one with the stop.
Then re-engage the clutch cable and all was well.
I used about four quite thick washers:)
:edit: Plus you will have an ajustable bite point if you do this! lol More washers = higher bit point!
just wondering, with the washers fitted against the fork in the dip/groove where the cable would usually sit,would this no cause the cable to sort of work its way off the fork.?as it would no longer be sitting IN the dip/groove.:scratch:
Mine didn't. You can only try!
THE MASTER
25-04-2010, 23:43
im sorry i do giggle when i see threads like this . no disrepect :p
im sorry i do giggle when i see threads like this . no disrepect :p
colin giggle on:cry: its annoying the hell outta me.
as your giggling i can only assume you know how to fix this problem:uhhuh:?
if you've got another way than whats already been mentioned please share it.?
TrixNFlix
26-04-2010, 10:32
I think gtphil has hit your problem on the head. :agree:
4" of slack! thats alot.
with mine i can move the clutch pedal about 1/2" before you even feel any sort of tension.
and at the clutch fork end the fork itself is pretty solid,with just a very slight bit of movement, i can push the fork towards the engine ever so slightly(estimate about 2-3mm) its not even noticable. and i can slide the cable off the fork quite easy
Loads of slack unfortunatly, we have replaced the following - engine and clutch (Due to other problems we took the easy option :D ) clutch pedal, clutch pedal spring, as said the cable was a new genuine Renault clutch cable, routed correctly, the fork is not bent, it sits on the clutch release bearing properly and the gearbox pivot bush appears in very good condition.
Now the the 4" slack is weird and i very much doubt this much slack would be down to the gearbox pivot bush all I can think is the cable has stretched somehow, or it is not routed correctly. I have looked at my 5 and the routing is identical to mine :confused:
At present this the only thing stopping the 5 from being driven. I am going to get the 5 owner to get another brand new Genuine Renault clutch cable and started over again.
At some point, we are gonna have to start measuring these different clutch cables :)
At some point, we are gonna have to start measuring these different clutch cables :)
That was my next thought seeing if someone had measured a brand new Genuine OE clutch cable?
I am seriously considering cutting down the orginal cable and PMT modying it together so it's useable.
:mad::mad::brickwall:
This is REALLY testing my patients now.
ive been out to slip some washers inbetween the cable and fork, i started off with 1 washer with no luck, then 2, then 3, and then i realised i could actually pull the clutch cable pretty far away from the fork towards the drivers side:scratch: now i wasnt going to try and fill that space with about 4" of washers:scared: plus the fact that if i put more washers on,the clutch had that horrible pop feel to it..you push the clutch pedal and as you get to half way the pedal drops to the floor like it lost all tension. at least without the washers it felt pretty much the same throughout.
im sure if i remember on all my previous 5s it would be very hard to even pull the cable away from the fork! i just dont get it.
my cable is routed from the clutch fork, it runs over the turbo oil rtn pipe, then it clips to the chassiss arm, it then runs to the clip behind the rear eng mount and then it goes around the back of the steering boot and up into the hole in the bulkhead. IS THIS RIGHT.?
the clutch is new.
the clutch pedal/ratchet is a 2nd hand one from mike phase i 16v as my original one was knackered.
:scratch::cry:
modfather
27-04-2010, 20:48
i got a simular problem but instead of using washers i cut an old socket length ways but still the same, so going to cut another socket up just going to use a longer 1 this time
i got a simular problem but instead of using washers i cut an old socket length ways but still the same, so going to cut another socket up just going to use a longer 1 this time
the thing is we shouldnt be needing to do these daft mods:sad2:
im not impressed thats for sure!
modfather
27-04-2010, 20:56
im hoping to crack it tomorrow, really want to get out for a blast in it, i let you know how i get on with it
:mad::mad::brickwall:
This is REALLY testing my patients now.
ive been out to slip some washers inbetween the cable and fork, i started off with 1 washer with no luck, then 2, then 3, and then i realised i could actually pull the clutch cable pretty far away from the fork towards the drivers side:scratch: now i wasnt going to try and fill that space with about 4" of washers:scared: plus the fact that if i put more washers on,the clutch had that horrible pop feel to it..you push the clutch pedal and as you get to half way the pedal drops to the floor like it lost all tension. at least without the washers it felt pretty much the same throughout.
im sure if i remember on all my previous 5s it would be very hard to even pull the cable away from the fork! i just dont get it.
my cable is routed from the clutch fork, it runs over the turbo oil rtn pipe, then it clips to the chassiss arm, it then runs to the clip behind the rear eng mount and then it goes around the back of the steering boot and up into the hole in the bulkhead. IS THIS RIGHT.?
the clutch is new.
the clutch pedal/ratchet is a 2nd hand one from mike phase i 16v as my original one was knackered.
:scratch::cry:
Your at the same place I am with fidos got a raiders car it's doing my fecking head in :mad:
Your at the same place I am with fidos got a raiders car it's doing my fecking head in :mad:
as spacer I have been using old driveshaft knuckels from fecked old drive but as raj says I really don't want to take up 4" of slack
as anyone measured up a new clutch cable yet? Has anyone measured up one that was working fine? ( maybe someone whom is doing a resto of there 5 so being stripped down)
SCHWARTZ
27-04-2010, 21:08
would it not be better (if shimming it) to shim it at the gear box bracket end rather than the fork as like mentioned there is a divit in the fork to hold the nipple in place. whats the big rubber block with plastic around it that sits on the gear box bracket look like? also dose the bracket on the gear box its self look ok?
Raj....check this out.
where the inner cable goes into the car, it should go through a loop on the upper quadrant, if it doesn't and yougo round the side of this, then you will get all sorts of problems.
would it not be better (if shimming it) to shim it at the gear box bracket end rather than the fork as like mentioned there is a divit in the fork to hold the nipple in place. whats the big rubber block with plastic around it that sits on the gear box bracket look like? also dose the bracket on the gear box its self look ok?
That's were I have been using my knuckles spacers and I have made sure tha cable gies through the loop as sparkie has said aswell :confused:
SCHWARTZ
27-04-2010, 21:46
is that 4" slack with more than one cable than james?
Raj....check this out.
where the inner cable goes into the car, it should go through a loop on the upper quadrant, if it doesn't and yougo round the side of this, then you will get all sorts of problems.
yes thats checked and checked again, the cable goes through the loop on the white quadrant and then onto the black toothed piece.
im starting to think it maybe the clutch pedal again, as i had i slight feeling earlier when pressing the clutch pedal down it felt like it skipped a tooth and then caught on.
is that 4" slack with more than one cable than james?
Hi Gary, Yeah matey thats the orginal cable and the new Genuine Renault cable, we had them side by side before I installed the new one and the length appeared identical :confused:
Do you have your cable lying about anywhere that Chris could try out?
Sorry Raj don't mean to takeover your thread, we seem to have the same problem.
:( Very strange! Could the cable be from another modle and sold as a gtt one by mistake?
Seems odd you both have the same problem:crap:
Sorry Raj don't mean to takeover your thread, we seem to have the same problem.
we are sharing the same problem so no worries:agree: its better than cluttering the board with threads asking the same thing:)
we just need to get to the bottom of this PROPERLY:agree: without using bodge methods:disagree:
im assuming the white teflon bush is ok that the clutch fork pivots on? they do wear out....
im assuming the white teflon bush is ok that the clutch fork pivots on? they do wear out....
its been a while since i took a look at it but i do actually remember checking it over at the same time as checking 2 other gearboxes. i took all the teflon bushes off them all and fitted the smoothest one which did even seem to be worn to my current gearbox.:agree:
i could possibly double check this, but is it visable thought the fork gap on the gearbox?
THE MASTER
28-04-2010, 13:26
lets see if i can solve this
first thing to check is how does the pedal feels, it should have a bit of free play at the top and is usualy slighty higher than the brake pedal about 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch.
if this is incorrect check that the stop is in place and it lines up with both of the auto ajusting quadrants
the pedal should only move side to side a bit if its floppy cheack the mounting pivots the bigger bush goes nearest the brake pedal.
the route of the cable goes from the pedal making sure that it runs through the loop on the white cam on the pedal then straight down and round the back/rear of the stearing u/j~boot then along the subrame just above the anti roll bar then along the n/s chassis rail and on to the box.
when everthing is fitted and inplace have a look at the pedal the cam should be sitting at about half way on its teeth. ;)
lets see if i can solve this
first thing to check is how does the pedal feels, it should have a bit of free play at the top and is usualy slighty higher than the brake pedal about 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch.
if this is incorrect check that the stop is in place and it lines up with both of the auto ajusting quadrants
the pedal should only move side to side a bit if its floppy cheack the mounting pivots the bigger bush goes nearest the brake pedal.
the route of the cable goes from the pedal making sure that it runs through the loop on the white cam on the pedal then straight down and round the back/rear of the stearing u/j~boot then along the subrame just above the anti roll bar then along the n/s chassis rail and on to the box.
when everthing is fitted and inplace have a look at the pedal the cam should be sitting at about half way on its teeth. ;)
:agree:I can confirm that Chris's raider is as you have said above routed correctly (as you have said), pedal bushes are good condition and correctly in place, it does sit slightly higher than the brake pedal aswell. The Teeth are in good condition but we still have this 4-5"s of slack. We are going to try another new OE cable
first thing to check is how does the pedal feels, it should have a bit of free play at the top and is usualy slighty higher than the brake pedal about 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch.
if this is incorrect check that the stop is in place and it lines up with both of the auto ajusting quadrants yes the pedal has about 1/4" of free play, the pedal sits abit higher then the brake pedal:agree:
the pedal should only move side to side a bit if its floppy check the mounting pivots the bigger bush goes nearest the brake pedal yes this is all in order:agree:
the route of the cable goes from the pedal making sure that it runs through the loop on the white cam on the pedal then straight down and round the back/rear of the stearing u/j~boot then along the subrame just above the anti roll bar then along the n/s chassis rail and on to the box. yes correct:agree:
when everthing is fitted and inplace have a look at the pedal the cam should be sitting at about half way on its teeth. i will confirm this in a few hours.
We are going to try another new OE cable
can you measure the one you remove aswell as the new one you fit please?
can you measure the one you remove aswell as the new one you fit please?
:agree:
modfather
28-04-2010, 17:09
i got about 3 - 4 cables here turbo 1`s and non turbo 1`s oe and not oe they all the same size.i ve been messuring the distance between the release folk and the bracket on the box when the pedal is fully down and getting 7.5 cm with a big spacer and with a small spacer.is that the correct messurement
SCHWARTZ
28-04-2010, 18:01
I will be using my clutch cable james but could try and measure it if that would help.
regarding post #48 (http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showpost.php?p=151140&postcount=48)
when everthing is fitted and inplace have a look at the pedal the cam should be sitting at about half way on its teeth
this is also as you say colin :agree:
so thats all your check list colin, what next?
I will be using my clutch cable james but could try and measure it if that would help.
Gary, If you could please meausre that would be :cool:
Chris's new clutch cable turned up today and I believe he is going to meaure up and post up today
out of interest, if it come to the worst, is the white bush (part no pls?) that the clutch fork pushes up to replaceable while the engine/gearbox are still in situ?
also, nobodys mentioned the selector rod underneath the car?
could this cause a problem with selecting gears? when i refitted this engine i didnt line anything up regarding the rod.! i just just pushed it back though the clamp i little a tightened it up. i wouldnt even know how to adjust it even after looking through the article (http://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=4798) :scratch:
any updates from you guys that were suffering the same problem..?
ive nothing to report as i refuse to work on it now.
any updates from you guys that were suffering the same problem..?
ive nothing to report as i refuse to work on it now.
bump!
bump!
We are still at the same place aswell got yet another brand new genuine Renault clutch cable fitted and still the slack:( none of us can be bothered to play with the car at the mo we have another clutch release fork on the way to try out when we can be arsed. We need to sort it soon as National Day approaches.
We are still at the same place aswell got yet another brand new genuine Renault clutch cable fitted and still the slack:( none of us can be bothered to play with the car at the mo we have another clutch release fork on the way to try out when we can be arsed. We need to sort it soon as National Day approaches.
i know, its getting bloody rediculess now:sad2: its the one and only thing holding me back from getting the car on the road. im not even keeping the car so its just been stood undercover for months now until i can get this issue sorted,then its up for sale when its 100% complete.
james5 any joy on your side of things regarding this :scratch: issue?
mine has been sat in the same place so still not sorted:(
:cry:
james5 any joy on your side of things regarding this :scratch: issue?
mine has been sat in the same place so still not sorted:(
:cry:
unfortunatly we are in the same position know one has touched Chris's raider
unfortunatly we are in the same position know one has touched Chris's raider
I know Chris has got a couple of clutch forks to try out one from myself (was known to be fine as out of running car with no clutch engagement problems) and another from Markey Mark to see if they make any difference at all. Hopefully Chris will be trying them out soon to see if it makes any difference, the only other thing it could be is this fecking white bush thing in the gearbox as that would be the only item not replaced but I am failing to see that it would really cause 4-5" of slack?? maybe 1" yes I could see but no more than that.
I know Chris has got a couple of clutch forks to try out one from myself (was known to be fine as out of running car with no clutch engagement problems) and another from Markey Mark to see if they make any difference at all. Hopefully Chris will be trying them out soon to see if it makes any difference, the only other thing it could be is this fecking white bush thing in the gearbox as that would be the only item not replaced but I am failing to see that it would really cause 4-5" of slack?? maybe 1" yes I could see but no more than that.
this is a baztard of an issue:mad: how much i hate these cars right now i cant explain.
crappy little niggly problems:mad:
have you had a look if the white bush is replacable with separating the g/box from the engine?
Ok little bit of an update, Chris has been playing with his 5 himself now :eek: :laugh: and he has fitted another new clutch cable and this time he has said that it feels much better. Unfortunatly he didn't measure the cable this time so length is unknown. He is also still having to run a 1/2" spacer aswell to take up the small amount of slack.
Matt Cole
05-07-2010, 13:13
withought reading the full thread, make sure reno give you the R% cable and not the R11 or R9. Pretty sure these are slightly longer??
Anyone confirm this please?
TrixNFlix
07-08-2010, 20:05
Right just measured 2 genuine new Renault clutch cables, they were both 186cm long.
Right just measured 2 genuine new Renault clutch cables, they were both 186cm long.
Raj, did you ever solve this issue?? if so what was it?
Markey Mark (BD)
08-10-2010, 17:06
Raj, did you ever solve this issue?? if so what was it?
I sorted Raj's clutch cable while ago by slightly flattening the clutch pedal stop, it aloud it to click one more time on the ratchet and then the clutch worked fine, went into all gears nicely when it was driven.
I sorted Raj's clutch cable while ago by slightly flattening the clutch pedal stop, it aloud it to click one more time on the ratchet and then the clutch worked fine, went into all gears nicely when it was driven.
Is that the little plastic bit on the back Mark ?
Markey Mark (BD)
08-10-2010, 17:30
Is that the little plastic bit on the back Mark ?
The white plastic stop, thats it mate.
It has a curved section, i filed it down abit so it was more flat which allowed the pedal to click one more times.
Raj's wasn't as bad as yours, same thing though checked everything twice with no luck in finding anything wrong. We tried this and it worked perfect so Raj was happy to leave it as that.
The white plastic stop, thats it mate.
It has a curved section, i filed it down abit so it was more flat which allowed the pedal to click one more times.
Raj's wasn't as bad as yours, same thing though checked everything twice with no luck in finding anything wrong. We tried this and it worked perfect so Raj was happy to leave it as that.
OK, so I know what part you mean, where is it situated & do you need to remove the pedal to file it down ??
Markey Mark (BD)
08-10-2010, 17:52
OK, so I know what part you mean, where is it situated & do you need to remove the pedal to file it down ??
If you look up at the pedal just infront of where the pedal pivots you'll see a white clip thats pushed through the bracket that the pedal rest on when its fully up, all you got to do is push the pedal down and then that will allow you to push the pedal stop out (white clip).
Hope that makes sense, never been good at explaining things! :D
If you look up at the pedal just infront of where the pedal pivots you'll see a white clip thats pushed through the bracket that the pedal rest on when its fully up, all you got to do is push the pedal down and then that will allow you to push the pedal stop out (white clip).
Hope that makes sense, never been good at explaining things! :D
Pretty sure I know what you mean now ;), will have to wait till another day now as I have my youngest while the two older ones are swimming...
phase i 16 v turbo
08-10-2010, 17:55
If you look up at the pedal just infront of where the pedal pivots you'll see a white clip thats pushed through the bracket that the pedal rest on when its fully up, all you got to do is push the pedal down and then that will allow you to push the pedal stop out (white clip).
Hope that makes sense, never been good at explaining things! :D
It might be creamy coloured if it has been in there for a while
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