View Full Version : The Start of a mk1 Clio 225 Hybrid
Hi guys.
On the way to my Clio Turbo Conversion :)
The Car started life as a 1.8 16v Clio and very good fun it was at that,
The Car then had a stock Clio 172 F4R Lump fitted running Standard Ecu
The Car then had a Stock Engine with ITBS and Omex 600
The Car then Had a fully built steel engine with cams, all sorts and the ITBS and Omex 600
The Car now will live with a F4rT Head Onto a F4R Block, running the F4rT Pistons and Rods, Along side a few other nice extras.
The Reason for putting the Head onto the F4R Block is the Gearbox on the Turbo Block is designed for a 6 speed box with some work it will fit the 5 speed, But from what i have been told its a long hard and expensive task, After doing home work i am confident that the combernation of the two engines will work and work well,
Id decided to get a nice ECU from Scoff and thats shoudl be here this week :) With some luck.
Ive had Steve come throught tonight with a nice F4r Block :) Rocking!!! Cheers boss i really appreciate that.
I am still very undercided what TURBO too use, looking for a Manifold that will make me be able to runa GT series turbo as i feel the 225 turbo could be too small and have too use more boost too create the power level i want,
Updates will be posted and with photos.
Cheers
Matt Cole
24-01-2010, 20:51
Hello matey,
Are you planning on using the f4r cams?
You had a full steel F4R engine, but you've swapped all the bits for F4RT internals?
If so what have you done with the Steel rods you took out of the F4R?
Be interested to see the inside of the F4RT, pics of rods against std and steel F4R rods would be interesting.
I wouldn't be too worried about the gearbox mounting issue of the F4RT tbh as you'll probably need to do the Scoff VAG box conversion at some point ;)
Hi andy, good to talk to you today. a genuine enthusiast, which are getting rare!
What ashy say's above is fair comment, the standard 5 speed doesn't deal with a lot of torque all that well, so that might be another reason to find yourself a bigger (less torque-spike prone) turbo. Mapping the boost to remove unwanted spikes in the torque curve should help too.
Hello matey,
Are you planning on using the f4r cams?
No sticking with the F4RT cams that are in the cylinder head as they don't have the ball ache of VVT and have been proven to flow enough for 300bhp on Paul at RStunings R26R.
Matt Cole
24-01-2010, 21:12
No sticking with the F4RT cams that are in the cylinder head as they don't have the ball ache of VVT and have been proven to flow enough for 300bhp on Paul at RStunings R26R.
I think a benefit would be seen with more boost/larger turbo, disabling the VVT and run the F4r cams.
Hi andy, good to talk to you today. a genuine enthusiast, which are getting rare!
What ashy say's above is fair comment, the standard 5 speed doesn't deal with a lot of torque all that well, so that might be another reason to find yourself a bigger (less torque-spike prone) turbo. Mapping the boost to remove unwanted spikes in the torque curve should help too.
The manifolds are interchangeable through out the F4R range and the log manifolds you can get from Ktec or BBPT will bolt straight on. this has the bous of (if you buy a ktec down pipe) matching straight up to the current exhaust system rather than retaining the stock 225 setup and having to have a custom exhaust.
I think a GT28R with a ar.60 comp and 64 turbine would really suit the engine and flow 300bhp
I think a benefit would be seen with more boost/larger turbo, disabling the VVT and run the F4r cams.
The problem is Andy wants to use it as a track car and doesn't really want mega power otherwise he'll be swapping gearboxes every weekend. sticking with the stock F4RT cams (no VVT) and a free'r flowing turbo (to help with top end) should be the best combination. Obviously it's going to be trial and error but something like a GT28R with a .60 comp and a .64 back end should give good results without having to run mega boost.
The other thing is the compression ratio of the F4RT it's not as low as the wossners I have in mine so he shouldn't have to run as much boost to get good reliable figures (remeber RStuning stage 2's are putting 20psi into these engines without trouble) Ashy's is a prime example, his compression ratio isn't as low as mine and he was putting 3/4psi less into his engine to hit within .7bhp of mine.
Thanks for the replys lads.
The turbo and the manifold is last on the list but i am happy to try try try and then fix fix fix!!! :)
i know the Jc5 are not the best but i will see what happens. I dont want 300Bhp! 240ish will be very good too much power can spoil a car, and since were using her for track days/1/4s its importance too do both
You'll piss 240bhp with a stock 225 turbo however they do produce really strong torque figures and thats whats will destroy your gearbox.
Matt Cole
24-01-2010, 22:35
You'll piss 240bhp with a stock 225 turbo however they do produce really strong torque figures and thats whats will destroy your gearbox.
He could swap to the JB3 as they seem to hold up a little better than the JC5 ala stu clarke and plenty high powered 5's. Infact is the 172 box that bad as it seems pretty durable too as tested brutally by scoff and Ashy hasnt replaced his yet (touching wood)
As for low down torque ,makes for an awesome road car though!:D
He could swap to the JB3 as they seem to hold up a little better than the JC5 ala stu clarke and plenty high powered 5's. Infact the 172 box seems pretty durable too as tested brutally by scoff and Ashy hasnt replaced his yet (touching wood)
As for low torque ,makes an awesome road car though!:D
He's already got a JC5 128 gearbox the same as whats in mine. Its a dci box with much better ratios that gives a usefull overdrive 5th.
I agree that torque does make it a much more flexible road car but as it's his track toy something thats going to give a strong top end will be best.
as it's his track toy something thats going to give a strong top end will be best. guess it depends on the track but I would of thought low down torque and a responsive blower would be best, when you are on and off throttle regularly... the stock 225 twin scroll would be ideal for this... Ask Mat, starts boosting at 2000rpm or something daft :smokin:
To be honest nothing is set in stone.
Andy has a F4RT engine and a F4R block so we were just looking to make the most of what we had.
His car used to have an F4R fitted so it seemd logical to try and retain as much F4R as possible for ease of fitting.
There are some good points being raised in the other thread about the flow capacities of the F4RT cams as well as the inlet manifold.
It could be worth sourcing a f4r head and using that?
An initial problem we can see.
On the f4rt engine the cam belt runs round the crank, round the water pump then round the cam pulleys and finally the tensioner.
On the F4r it doesnt have a water pump (on the cam belt) and has a pulley instead.
This pulley is drilled and tapped into the cylinder head so, to use the F4RT head it need to be drilled and tapped to accept this pulley.
Matt Cole
24-01-2010, 22:59
To be honest nothing is set in stone.
Andy has a F4RT engine and a F4R block so we were just looking to make the most of what we had.
His car used to have an F4R fitted so it seemd logical to try and retain as much F4R as possible for ease of fitting.
There are some good points being raised in the other thread about the flow capacities of the F4RT cams as well as the inlet manifold.
It could be worth sourcing a f4r head and using that?
Yeah matey it all depends on what variation/limit Andy wants to take the car too. The 225 lump with its turbo cams and the twin scroll at moderate boost will be pretty good for 250bhp ish, would be good on most tracks (responsive). More boost/power then the F4R cams, bigger turbo etc. In fact just the f4r lump with compression mods/injectors etc should do it.
I've just text Andy to see if he wants to use a full F4R engine but with the F4RT pistons and rods.
I figure by using the full f4r it will cut down on the parts needing machining, as the F4RT head will need the cylinder head drilling and tapping for the cam pulley as well as needing some form of fabrication for an adaptor to get a cable throttle body to fit the inlet manifold.
Obviously by going to this he won't be able to use the stock turbo arrangement which will put the costs up.
I suppose it'll come down to how much money he want to throw at it.
Matt Cole
25-01-2010, 10:19
Theres no easy route tbh matey as both variations require more than 'bolt on' parts. If i were to do this again, then it would be using the F4R lump and turbo that, as at least you can drop it in with not too much effort and work on the turboing parts of the conversion.
Theres no easy route tbh matey as both variations require more than 'bolt on' parts. If i were to do this again, then it would be using the F4R lump and turbo that, as at least you can drop it in with not too much effort and work on the turboing parts of the conversion.
Cost wise I still think the F4RT/F4R hybrid would be the cheapest as he already has the F4RT engine complete and an F4R block. Also if he uses the stock turbo set up as he has that the manifold and the intermediate exhaust pipe. Apart from the cable throttle body and the drilling and tapping it should be plain sailing. if he can find a small enough cable body he can just use narrow bore intercooler pipework around the engine bay to make things easier.
If he wants to use a full F4R engine he'll have to use the pistons and rods from the F4RT (which means he won't recoup much money from that when he sells it on). He'll also need a F4R head, turbo manifold, ktec down pipe, turbo, cable body and a few otheer bits. So in theory it's likey to cost more quite a bit more.
I have decided on a few things today, the major factor of this too trial and error, i am wanting to be able to have a reliable car that will get used about 10 times a year, but dont wish to throw £1000's into it as i have a baby on the way and a wife that likes gooch :)
I am going this route
F4R Block
F4rT Pistons, Rods and Crank
F4RT Head, drilled and tapped to suit
Volvo turbo Throttle Bodie, with a adaptor plate for the inlet.
I am going to keep the orininal twin scroll turbo and go with a T14
Custom downpipe from AAS at newburn.
Apt ECU from Scoff.
I think this can all be done with in Budget of say £1500.
Mate how much have they qouted you for the down pipe? as ktecs is £186 and I'm sure you could wangle a bit of discount if you spoke to Sean? or I could give him a ring as he's spot on with me.
I've been thinking about the exhaust, the fact that there are so many engines shared between the clios and meganes and they all route the same I think you might be able to get away with the stock arrangement.
How about you leave it till last then fit the cat and that intermediate pipe I brought round last night and see how far out it is if any?
yer mate well do that :)
need to get it all togerher first :) ordered head gasket and belt kit today collect this afternoon :) and seals from renault
Come on, get cracking, I wanna see results :wasntme:
ordered head gasket and belt kit today collect this afternoon :) and seals from renault
Ouch, bet that stung!!
I remember when i did that a set of head bolts cost me £56.00 :eek:
engine dynamics seem quite cheap for bits
http://www.engine-dynamics.com/epages/es118981.sf/en_GB/?ViewAction=View&ObjectID=3555136&Page=2
Just got a British Gasket for £32 and a set of British Gasket Bolts for £29 .... The joys of having a Trade account with Pages, Speedos and Halfords :)
Just sorting a few bits out this week but the heads will be going to get drilled on wednesday
No mucking about, you got the head off yet Andy?
And are you going to take both heads so they can see exactly where it goes?
Realistically the way the tensioner works it could be a couple of mm out and you'd still be able to tension it ok.
No mucking about, you got the head off yet Andy?
And are you going to take both heads so they can see exactly where it goes?
Realistically the way the tensioner works it could be a couple of mm out and you'd still be able to tension it ok.
Will take it off tommorrow and measure it all my self with the gauages, micromitors etc :) and then get the place who will drill it for me to double check, will take both heads.
Ordered the pully from Renault today too :) Happy Days
Really looking forward to seeing how this project progresses, can't wait to see pics as it get's involved :) :cool:
Did you get an NDO gearbox with the engine or not, if your not using it they go for quite good money on ebay.
i l k e r
26-01-2010, 09:46
great project :agree:
albeit the power handling properties of the J series gearbox it will make the whole process much easier for you, they're massive and a pain to get spares for :sad2:
I'm still stuck just because of a bloody driveshaft, I hate living abroad :mad:
Gaz it was just the engine no gear box.
ILKER that was one of the reasons that it was decided to use a F4R block as Andy had all ready had one fitted so we knew everything would line up without any problems, they both share exactly bore and stroke so it looks relatively straight forward getting it together.
Another thing we'll be able to retain is the over the head intercooler pipe which should make the pipe routing a fair bit easier.
Anyone have a 225 turbo they want rid of?
Anyone have a 225 turbo they want rid of?
Mats got a smokey one!
I've got the cold end of a td04 10t the one from the laguna turbo if you get desperate.
I've got the cold end of a td04 10t the one from the laguna turbo if you get desperate.
i have a 10t turbo need a bigger baby,
Ohh getting along nice just ha d a delivary from renualt :)
Hi Guys.
Little update not much going on at the minuate awaiting for parts etc.
Collected my Rings from renualt, thought when i was on even the the engien is a genuine 6k unit i would replace all rings and shells
Steve come through on thursday night but we could not do much due to the electric going off, so he stood there looking good and then buggered off home again :)
hahaha
few pix of bits for some viewing nothing exciting, Heads away getting machined.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/P1060718.jpg?t=1264839682
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/P10606961600x1200.jpg?t=1264839757
Another quick update, I'm in Leeds today and have picked up a 225 meg turbo for the project. I'll be dropping it off tomorrow for Andy and all going well with the machinist the engine could be back in the car next week.
Looking at the pics it looks as though those cams would drop straight in a F4R, which has got me thinking about swapping mine out for them.
Obviously we know the F4R N/A cams will flow 400bhp+ as this has been proven (by Scoff) but I wonder if the turbo cams would be more suited to a road car maybe giving better mid range? and still flowing 300+ the cosequences could be more torque which might give the gearbox a hard time.
cheers stevo!!!!!! :) wahoo what a bargin too ;)
god my garage loosk so messy in that how photos can lie :sad2:
Just aswell you took those photos after you'd tidied up LOL
What was it you said mid week "Steve, next time you set foot in here it'll be immaculate"
Wheres that pinochio smiley gone?
cheers stevo!!!!!! :) wahoo what a bargin too ;)
What did you go for in the end?
Just the stock meg 225 tdo4, if more power is required in the future Andy can get the hybrid kit for it which should take it to 300+
now steven, was it tidy today?????
just a 225 megane turbo i only want 250 area for the track so i think any thing else will be pointless at this stage :)
I'll give you that, it was actually tidy for once. Lets see how long it lasts LOL
How did Si get on with his evo? Is he still furious?
Well Good Progress.
New Rings Installed
New Bearings sorted, well in business
Heads Back on and Torqued and a Mockup of the bet is also done too make sure it all still fits :)
Had the head machined as the Fr4T block does not run two idlers as it runs the water pump on its own :)
Here are a few pixs
Removing the Crank from the bigger block
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/225blockopen.jpg
The mess!!!!
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/225EngienOIL.jpg
The Head after being marked and drilled
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/225HeadMaschined.jpg
Idler installed
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/225hEADMACHINEDPully.jpg
Rings being installed
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/clioblock.jpg
Pistons being dropped back in
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/InsteraRing.jpg
Crank and bearnings installed
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/Blockdone.jpg
New oil pump fitted
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/Blockwirtoilpump.jpg
Short motor Finished
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/Fullblock.jpg
The belt mock up
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/Beltedup.jpg
good work andy :)
did you get any detailed pictures of the 225 rods and pistons ?
good work andy :)
did you get any detailed pictures of the 225 rods and pistons ?
after i put the head on i remembers i forgot to put a f4r and a turbo rod together... i am stupidddddddddddddddddddddd..
:)
i May have to remove the head tommorrow as i am not confident that its right.....
I torqued in sequance.
20nm
then
20nm
then 100degrees
then 100 degrees
but then i got to the end ones they were loose after i had done 100 in 1 2 3 4 5 6 ....
Is that how its ment too be, ive never noticed it like that before...
ahh, shame. I was eager to compare them. did they look or feel any more substantial than the 172 rods ? don't go taking the head off on my account :)
re bolt tightening, I'm a bit old-skool, I don't bother with the angles, I just torque them up to 80ft/lb and walk away. I don't use stretch bolts though. I have a PDF copy of the f4r tech manual if you would like a copy ?
I have a copy already thanks Scoff. But it says it in a very strange measurment
da Nm you mean ? multiply that by 10 and you have Nm, but it sounds like you've done that already. I'd have to re-read the manual to get to grips with it again.
Is Auto Data tellign me fibs
20nm
20nm
100degrees
100 degrees
renault say
20Nb
then 165degrees...
I think ill start again tommorrow, as i get a headgasket with the full seal kit :)
Andy, that's awesome :agree:
Other than machining another pulley location, what other modifications are required for the f4rt head to seat on the f4r block?
Andy, that's awesome :agree:
Other than machining another pulley location, what other modifications are required for the f4rt head to seat on the f4r block?
Thats a secret ;)
nothing at ALL :)
Cue 225 heads being bought up and down the country and 5 turbos everywhere running f4r/f4rt hybrid engine and retaining the all important OE bonnet :)
Is Auto Data tellign me fibs
20nm
20nm
100degrees
100 degrees
renault say
20Nb
then 165degrees...
I think ill start again tommorrow, as i get a headgasket with the full seal kit :)
I did the same as Scoff... toruqe it up and forget! Seems to be OK so far.
Cue 225 heads being bought up and down the country and 5 turbos everywhere running f4r/f4rt hybrid engine and retaining the all important OE bonnet :)
:agree:
Keeping the bonnet is a big plus as you may have gathered with what I have said before but the other thing was the level of power the combination of the engines Andy is aiming to achieve.
I am just really intrigued about the driveability of it too. I know you guys are aiming for useable torque and good horsepower, that build will not just be awesome on track but pretty handy on the road, which, ultimately is what I want.
I just can't wait to see the finished article :smokin:
Spooky it's going to be a beast I'm sure it only weighs around the 850kg mark as well.
Spooky it's going to be a beast I'm sure it only weighs around the 850kg mark as well.
831 ;)
Obviously without you in it! LOL
Spooky it's going to be a beast I'm sure it only weighs around the 850kg mark as well.
:burnrubber: much :D
The only major difference for a GTT would be the exhaust manifold layout. I take it the Clio has the room to keep the turbo in it's oe position?
Looking forward to seeing it plumbed in with all the engines juices in full flow :D
Yeah, luckily Andy's pervious engine was a F4R so everything lines up no probs, we'll find out next week how much space is between the block and bulkhead but people have been turboing clio williams and valvers using log manifolds where the turbo sits square on the back, with the OE turbo it sits on top of manifold so is even more compact so we can't see any probs in that area.
Wellll.
The engine is built!!! Its ready too drop in :)
Got a full Gasket Kit today from Renault, so i used that head gasket and its went on how you lads said, so i got some photos for you scoff :)
The Cam Seals installed
The Special Renault Glue uses
Crank Seals
Cam Bolts
Timed up, rocker fitted and painted
Manifolds fitted,
Awaiting turbo Gasket and then, it will be dropped into the car :) Rock on Dudes Ill update some pix tommorrow :)
Obviously without you in it! LOL
:eek:
:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:
Im only 14Clem you checky get
so i got some photos for you scoff :)
Of the rods? Looking forward to seeing those! Get tehm uploaded lad :smokin:
Andy what sort of fueling system did you run with the old engine?
Is it the same as clios and megs with the fuel pressure regulator in the tank? or did you have it on the fuel rail the same as mine?
As this could be our first stumbling block :cry:
I've never seen a meg 225 fuel rail so i'm not sure if it could be adapted to run an external fuel rail or not. I've had a look at Matts project thread and he's running an external FPR but not sure if it's the original rail.
I wonder if a ph1 fuel rail would fit? that way you could use a stock fpr instead of an external one.
I actually have these left over from my conversion
http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=2103
http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=2251
Might be some use
By the looks of it Matt is using the standard fuel rail, come on Andy it should be running by now at the speed you work!
Steve.
The OEM Megane Fuel Rail only as a INPUT, controling the pigging fuel pressure from the tank.
The Clio 172 ph1 does fit but the brackets to hold it too the rale dont.
I am going to make a custom fuel rale :) Rock on Rodger!!!
I already have a Adjustable FPR so i am good at the moment Cheers Buddy :)
This will be in the car this weekend and the exhaust started on :)
Then Scoff will be sending me a shiny ECU and loom :)
Matt Cole
05-02-2010, 16:56
Andy, not sure what your regulator is but if its a 3 port, leave the standard rail, plum the supply to it. Let the regulator return to tank. Job done!:agree:
What size injectors are you going for then?
Andy, not sure what your regulator is but if its a 3 port, leave the standard rail, plum the supply to it. Let the regulator return to tank. Job done!:agree:
What do you mean?? the rail that comes with the megane engine doesnt have a end to return it too the tank??
Andy
What size injectors are you going for then?
some nice juice 555cc from a Impreza STi that i happaen to have lying about :)
Andrew Cooke
05-02-2010, 17:42
What do you mean?? the rail that comes with the megane engine doesnt have a end to return it too the tank??
Andy
fit the regulator before the fuel rail
fit the regulator before the fuel rail
So inline from the fuel pumps??? and then block up the "return " fuel pipe :)
andy, like this:
imagine your fuel line from the tank via the pump, this goes to a T piece. one oultet of the T piece goes to the rail, the other goes to the 'in' on the regulator. The 'out' of the regulator is your return to the tank. The regulator will pressurise everything before it, including the T piece, including the rail. I think Matt ended up doing his like this since I remember a similar conversation about a year ago :)
Ah i understand now :) Simple when you think about it, Jobs a good one, custom Fuel rale no longer needed Get in :)
Scoff tryed callign you ALL night "welcome to orange"
Well here are a few selected pix as at the min, lots of "tarting upp too do still
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/P1060787640x480.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/P1060789640x480.jpg
The Blue resien from renault £9 robbing *******s
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/P1060794640x480.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/P1060797640x480.jpg
Wouldnt be a project thread with out a pix of me and me mate Tony, who came too help me torque the pullys on :)
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/P1060798640x480.jpg
The Turbo sat in place, going too get its ceramicly coated :)
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/P1060799640x480.jpg
Matt Cole
05-02-2010, 20:22
andy, like this:
imagine your fuel line from the tank via the pump, this goes to a T piece. one oultet of the T piece goes to the rail, the other goes to the 'in' on the regulator. The 'out' of the regulator is your return to the tank. The regulator will pressurise everything before it, including the T piece, including the rail. I think Matt ended up doing his like this since I remember a similar conversation about a year ago :)
:agree: Thats the way matey. I remember the head scratching doing mine at the time and then realising that it was the simplest part of the conversion!:D
Matt Cole
05-02-2010, 20:27
Awesome mate. Youll be chuffed with that engine if its pokey as mine. Is that a new water pump i see??
Ah i understand now :) Simple when you think about it, Jobs a good one, custom Fuel rale no longer needed Get in :)
Scoff tryed callign you ALL night "welcome to orange"
sorry andy, phone's right next to me ?
Just looked at it, no signal. that'll be one crashed nokia then :)
Awesome mate. Youll be chuffed with that engine if its pokey as mine. Is that a new water pump i see??
replacing every single thing young man :)
andy
Trial Fitment of the Engine Went well. I knew the Break Servo would be a issue, but sod the brake we need BOOST :)
Ordering Brake Pedal box tonight so that shoudl sort things out :)
Sorry for the shocking image quality took my Wilkys Blackberry
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/wilkyway/2-1.jpg
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/wilkyway/4-1.jpg
Oh and Wilkys Track Car Punto too , nearly sorted too its got a 2.0 16v Turbo from a Fiat Coupe in it :) WOW it will fly
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/wilkyway/5-1.jpg
Big Steve - Raider
07-02-2010, 20:23
You'll need a custom exhaust regardless of what you do for braking so you might just as well get an exhaust craftsman to work his magic working with what you've got??
You'll need a heatshield to protect brake servo.
i wont need a custom exhaust at all., its a full custom system on there already. and the megane cat pipe that i am using to size up matches my custom front pipe already, we changed teh flange.
Regardless if i did get a custom down pipe it would still touch the servo,
so the servo is being removed and a pedal box fitted
cheers for your input tho
Matt Cole
07-02-2010, 20:49
Good progress mate. Bags of room in there im jelouse!!:D
Maybe if you use a remote resivior from a GTT might you have enough space to squeeze a 2.25" downpipe out.
The Blue resien from renault £9 robbing *******s
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/P1060794640x480.jpg
Thats an all too familiar sight from the weekend :sad2: I hope I don't have to see that for a long time yet!
Looks like you're making good progress Andy, good work.
Steve said you had a night mare mate :)
All sorted now tho :)
Scoff please give me more info
andy
Matt Cole
07-02-2010, 22:10
I think scoff means instead of the resevoir sitting on the top of the master cylinder, you have a remote resevoir feeding the master cylinder. This might give you a little more room.
I think scoff means instead of the resevoir sitting on the top of the master cylinder, you have a remote resevoir feeding the master cylinder. This might give you a little more room.
Do the R5's run this?? I am not sure TBH, the body of the Hydrolics sticks out as far
Are you using k-tecs de cat pipe or the standard cat?
The de cat pipe comes out quite a bit, shouldn't be too much to get a down pipe made and mated up though should it?
I will be using a decat pipe mate, its a track car so i dont need to pass a MOT, even tho it gets one every year too make sure every thing is safe, it always fails on Emmisions untill i put the sport cat in :) ;)
Well Well Well.
One of the final parts is on its way from Liverpool thanks too the Scoffmister!!! Our ECU will be here tommorrow good job i have the day off work, Thanks to my good mate and co owner mitch he found the money and got it paid for :)
Updates tommorrow
Let me know how you get on with the loom, I'm starting mine at the weekend. :coffee:
Loom is done, pretty much did in one night :)
Just the TPS to sort out need to speak to Scoof re this but he was in london yesterday so he was busy.
The only other part i need to sort is the wires for the boost solinoid :) and then the internal bits for lanuch control etc :laugh:
Well Well.
Intercooler and custom pipe work here tommorrow :) Lets hope i can start her on saturday.
Wiring done and sorted with help from the Scoff, , , And Matt for there help on the phone. Doesnt help when i am colour blind LOL :) TIK TIK POP
Throtttle Bodie Sorted
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/IMG_6135800x600.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/IMG_6152800x600.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/IMG_6138800x600.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/IMG_6134800x600.jpg
ta daaa
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/IMG_6150800x600.jpg
Matt Cole
26-02-2010, 08:24
Very nice matey, and the TB seems to fit niceley!!All in all very good progress!:D
Yeah that throttle body looks a lot easier fit than an F7R one, did the inlet need machining to match it ?
yeah slightyly but only took 2 mins :)
Well Got my Boost Pipes, and my water pipes back today :) Look ok :)
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/P1060887DesktopResolution.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/P1060886DesktopResolution.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/P1060885DesktopResolution.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/P1060884DesktopResolution.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/P1060883DesktopResolution.jpg
From turbo too the intercooler pipe work :)
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/P1060882DesktopResolution.jpg
Nice biscuits...:study:...:laugh:
The Dog got a good slap she twocked them :)
cheeky mongrel :D
you must be getting close to completion or something like it? really impressed with the speed and thought put behind this entire project :agree:
i hope tomorrow that it will be ready top start and tick over, been itching all week but thought just wait till the inter cooler is on and the waster pipes are back,
Ordered pedal box tonight :) i THINK thats the last thing we need :)
not far off at all then :) :agree:
Well, a little pissed off with the way i have had to route the pipe work for the cooler, i didnt think the altinator would be on the way, so there is more pipe work that i would want. But its looks OK i suppose. i may as well have got a twin pass now :(
Excuse the blue pipes forgot to pick up the black stuff Friday so will replace when i tighten them all up this week
Got my boost controller Apexi AVCR :) Yummy. should let me control the boost the way i want and able me too control the booost from inside the car with the press of a button
Water pipes fitted, Just need to finished them off onto the turbo and get a new 172 rad, the one i have has been sat on :( you can see by the photos.
I hope this will be alive Tuesday, then it will be Tidy up the engine bay time.:D
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/GetAttachmentaspx.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/GetAttachmentaspx2.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/GetAttachmentaspx1.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/P1060889DesktopResolution.jpg
Andrew Cooke
01-03-2010, 13:13
is there space forward of the strut tower engine mount to cut a hole and run a pipe through? There is on the 5, but that doesn't have that mount.
Well ive both lost the internet ( due to a company digging up roads!!! ) and intrest in the car due to various reasons so ive not been on here for about a month!!!
Big updates, photos will be posted tommorrow.
Had massive issues getting the piece of **** to start and used 2 starters and more electric from charging batterys than the whol eof the uk uses!! But after many swearing and more calls to both Scoff and my Mate Andy Carr ive managed to find the issue my self LOL :) the car would crank but not catch, it was the fact that the settings for injectors were set to "sequential" and not Batch. Clicked that pressed this Clicked that again and it turned over and started with the first push.
Updated list of parts
1) Pedal Box with Bias Bar
2) Internal Brake Pipes
3) Digi Dash unit
4) Toyo Proxi R888 Tyres
5) New Dash froma Mark 1 172
6) New Starter x 2 LOL
7) New Altinator
8) A divorce ;) LOL
Lots to do for mot in a weeks time!!!!!! Look at the colour of the roof!!!! :( MCP needed
Oh and me being a daft get i got some plugs from Renault too £37.60 not too bad :) I like were there made "Japan" may be of ok Quality :p
http://www.andygreer.co.uk/images/plugs.jpg
It's nearly always the simplest of things! glad it's running :)
Thanks for all the help so far Chris :)
Well a few more updates.
Weve decided to go for a DIGI dash too resolve the issue with the speedo, got that all sorted today and working a treat too :) Get up :)
We had to remove the master Cylnder and servo for the down pipe! So in the meanwhile we had to install the pedal box, which was spot on and looks pretty trick :) The only thing i have to sprt on that now is the clutch cable, as it no longer has the mecy that tightens the cable on its own. Im sure www.speedycables.co.uk (http://www.speedycables.co.uk) will sort it out before friday :) We also made a place to cover the BIG hole left by this, :laugh:
Break lights are a isse so were going for a hydrolic switch type in the break lines and sesnors pressure when the pedal is pushed ( i love techology )
We installed the new radiator too so thats sorted that and all sensors connected too the ECU and Dash are now complete :)
Installed new RAD
List to do before thursday night
1) Rear Discs and Bearings ( play )
2) Bleed Brakes
3) Install Brake Switch
4) Clutch Cable
5) Install Drivers Seat
6) finish off tidying some wires in the bay
7) Install the Bloody Dash :)
8) Fill the Gear Box with Oil
9) Install Air Filter
13) ( hahah ) Cut the front bumper for the intercooler!!! Ekkkkk
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/engien.jpg
so far so good keep it up looks well and i bet it will go well also:)
1) Rear Discs and Bearings ( play ) DONE
2) Bleed Brakes DONE
3) Install Brake Switch DONE
4) Clutch Cable DONE
5) Install Drivers Seat DONE
6) finish off tidying some wires in the bay DONE
7) Install the Bloody Dash :) DONE
8) Fill the Gear Box with Oil DONE
9) Install Air Filter DONE
13) ( hahah ) Cut the front bumper for the intercooler!!! Ekkkkk DONE
The cars now driving and apart from one oil leak things are looking well :) The car drives well and i cant wait to get to mapped asap :) Due too the wife having a BIG bump and keep having the longest labour ever i may get thsi sorte din a few weeks.
Here are a few photos :)
I treat my self to a new dash :)
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/dashdigi.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/Cliovsmg.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/Clios-1.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/fronts.jpg
Big Steve - Raider
02-05-2010, 22:50
Sweet!! :niceone:
You bringing it to Pod?
Sweet!! :niceone:
You bringing it to Pod?
I am Affraid not, apart from it not being fully tested yet, Well have our new addition to our family this week, Our little baby :) So i wont have time. I will be at Nationals tho :)
Andy
hydrotec78
03-05-2010, 07:51
That is one sweet looking clio !
Thought it was time for a little update.
Oil Leak
Clutch
Out of action.
We had a small oil leak that was so little and annoing it couldnt be found, we assumed it was the crank seal as the oil was from between the box and the block, as the clutch started to slip, So out came the engine and all, and i decided to get a Helix Paddle Clutch at a very good price. Once the engine was out there were no signs of any oil on the clutch or in the box its self, we did notice the sump was weeping, so we replaced the oil crank seal and the sump gasket too make sure, re sealed the end cap too. Refitted and Spot on no Leaks or Slippage of the Clutch Happy Days.
I am having some issue with turbo surge now tho, if you load the car up in 3rd or 4th between 2200rpm and 3500rpm the car just holds back its defo turbo Surge,
We have fitted a Hall Sensor so we now have Lanuch Control ( thansk to www.efi-parts.co.uk (http://www.efi-parts.co.uk) ) Chris shipped this out next day. Along side the Coil Pack he sent me too which again was here the very nexy day.
new bonnet aeros and mirrors
Today we went to York Raceway, What a waste fo time that was 3 runs in 5 hours! Rain Wetness and just a utter gash setup. we mannaged a 15.33 13.11 and a 12.88 pretty disapointed but the car has "ching wang chang" tyre and a Marshall, These were just tyres on the wheels when i got them, as the other wheels we have are not road legal
Here are a few photos of the progress from the last month,
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/Clio%2016v%20Conv/cliostreetwings.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/Clio%2016v%20Conv/bonnets.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/Clio%2016v%20Conv/elf.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/Clio%2016v%20Conv/enout.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/Clio%2016v%20Conv/helix.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/Clio%2016v%20Conv/york.jpg
12.88 isnt to be sniffed at on road tyres! What trap speeds have you done?
Wonder how the j series box will fair with launch control:D
110 mph mate just no grippppage
Will be good for a low 12 with decent tyres, well done:agree::)
Good times on road tyres!
Saw you today, an hour or so ago, on my way out of Crook.
Good times on road tyres!
Saw you today, an hour or so ago, on my way out of Crook.
I was eith taking Speedy for a spin or on my way back from york :)
Yo Ashy if there was a handsome ******* in the passenger seat when you saw him it was when he was taking me for a spin LOL
Anyway I had a ride up to Andy's to pick up some 182 hubs so that I can drill and tap them and fit a hall effect sensor so that I can run speed sensitive boost settings.
He still had the car on the drive from when he got back from york so we jumped in and headed off to the garage to put a bit of air in his tyres as he'd let a little out whilst at york in a bid for better traction. After that we headed out onto the rural roads, whilst not driving like a **** he gave a fair example of just how brutal the acceleration is, the fact he was getting wheel spin through each gear was just stupid. I must point out that this is a track car with an mot so the suspesion was pretty solid and the amateur gymnastics trying to climb over the roll cage also made me chuckle.
Obviously the biggest thing most people are interested in is the actual engine conversion. It works extremely well, obviously the traction issues Andy's suffering are a lot to do with the unforgiving suspension and the "family killer" tyres but there is a very strong wave of power from low down in the rev range all the way to the red line, he is suffering a bit of turbo surge which is under investigation to try and rectify it.
I honestly think that people who are toying with the idea of this kind of hybrid F4R/F4RT engine conversion will definatley go for it if the get a chance of a spin out in this. So all in it's been a top job :)
Andrew Cooke
31-05-2010, 11:11
110 mph mate just no grippppage
12.88@110 on road tyres is bloody good.
To me, and quite a few others it's the 110 that's the interesting number. If my Twingo goes 97 I'll be happy.
12.88@110 on road tyres is bloody good.
To me, and quite a few others it's the 110 that's the interesting number. If my Twingo goes 97 I'll be happy.
We were happoy about that ill post the slips up when i scan them in at work
I can't believe I've never sent his thread!!
awesome project.. when you swapped the internals did the f4rt crank fit the 172 flywheel and in turn enable you to use a 172 clutch with a r5/172 gearbox?
I can't believe I've never sent his thread!!
awesome project.. when you swapped the internals did the f4rt crank fit the 172 flywheel and in turn enable you to use a 172 clutch with a r5/172 gearbox?
yes andrew, Ill get some photos this time its in a zillion bits
Well, After our little mishap at Rockingham, and melting a piston due to a fuel pressure reg issue ( opps )
Two weeks later were ready to rock and roll again, still bits too but a lot closer to drop in this weekend ;)
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/Clio%2016v%20Conv/P1070485.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/Clio%2016v%20Conv/newPiston.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/Clio%2016v%20Conv/Cams.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/Clio%2016v%20Conv/block.jpg
oh and here is speedy if the timing is wrong then its his fault :)
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/Clio%2016v%20Conv/Steve.jpg
And for the record Andy asked me to pull a face like Sloth from the Goonies, I don't normally look like that :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
And for the record Andy asked me to pull a face like Sloth from the Goonies, I don't normally look like that :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
LOL
Just what ive been waiting for :)
New Bearings Main and Big End
New Piston and Rings
New Seals
New Gearbox :) Clio 182 Trophy :)
Lets hope a new start
Just ordered a AFR from Efiparts.co.uk :)
Shes back in the bay lets hope i can just have some bloody fun!!
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/Clio%2016v%20Conv/P1070566640x480.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/Clio%2016v%20Conv/P1070568640x480.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/Clio%2016v%20Conv/P1070570640x480.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/Clio%2016v%20Conv/P1070571640x480.jpg
Matt Cole
28-06-2010, 08:29
Looking good matey. I bet this conversion has cost a fekin packet!!!:eek:
Well We have operation lift off, It starts :)
I love when a plan comes together, the starter is only 3 months old but its sqwarking now pile of **** ! i think ill take that back, sound strange on start up putting that too the starter.
Got all sorted just need too do some miles and test the engine and make sure all is tight etc, Lets hope i have better luck now :) AFR is 11.5 on idle is that right?
Andy
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/Clio%2016v%20Conv/IMG_8593DesktopResolution.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/Clio%2016v%20Conv/IMG_8590DesktopResolution.jpg
not very tidy on here
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b255/Andyrg/Clio%2016v%20Conv/IMG_8585DesktopResolution.jpg
Got all sorted just need too do some miles and test the engine and make sure all is tight etc, Lets hope i have better luck now :) AFR is 11.5 on idle is that right?
AFR of 11.5 at idle :eek: thats a tad rich mate, 11.5 is more than you'd need at full boost, dunno exactly what an F4RT sits at idle but my 5 sits at 14.1 at idle
LOL i didnt knwo what too set the FPR at so i set ti too 3.75 to be safe i am sure it was set to 3.5bar, duno why it just was ill changce it tommorrow :)
As Ollie has already said 11.5 is a rich afr for idle you want to be about 14.7 on idle and at wot you want to be around 12.1
Andrew Cooke
04-07-2010, 23:53
that little bit of extra fuel pressure won't make the idle that rich. Are you sure that you've set the sensor up right as it'll idle pretty bad if it really is that rich.
With your cams you might be able to get a nice idle at 14.7, but often you'll need to richen it up a bit from there.
[quote=Andrew Cooke;163180] Are you sure that you've set the sensor up right as it'll idle pretty bad if it really is that rich.
[quote]
yer i did ........... honest!!!!!! lol ( gets home pulls the user book out oppps )
which wideband did you plug for andy lad? i've just about installed the AEM effort from scoff parts.co.uk ;-)
how you finding using it?
which wideband did you plug for andy lad? i've just about installed the AEM effort from scoff parts.co.uk ;-)
how you finding using it?
the same AEM mate, no set up required its plug and play AFRS now are 14's so im happy :)
i dont have a cluw hwo it works LOL ill wait till its mapped and get them too explain
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