View Full Version : VAG engines
Only a quickie, do the petrol 20V lumps use the same engine subframe as the TDi engines?? :ho:
Duncan Grier
23-12-2009, 17:16
Sure they are ;)
If you give me the specific tdi engine I can confirm
DG
iv had a look at this as my golf is diesal and checked my clio frame against it... all looks the same about from a fish bone rear mount on the petrol subframe which had been added i think from a r32
Sure they are ;)
If you give me the specific tdi engine I can confirm
DG
I was thinking the 1.9 TDi? From the Passat or Golf
I was thinking the 1.9 TDi? From the Passat or Golf
Get it done Rich'. You know that engine conversion will make for a great all-round usage car :)
Get it done Rich'. You know that engine conversion will make for a great all-round usage car :)
Loosely working out what it would cost, would need the complete engine/box, loom, ancillaries.
What do think, too tight for a 5, was thinking Valver shell
Scoff did you make the tailer made subframe for the VAG project?
Loosely working out what it would cost, would need the complete engine/box, loom, ancillaries.
What do think, too tight for a 5, was thinking Valver shell
Scoff did you make the tailer made subframe for the VAG project?
yes mate.
Scoff, could the subframe work in a phase 1 Clio? ( thinking that R5 and Clio share the same subframe)
Also wondering if the TDi would be a tighter fit than the 20V setup in a 5, obviously love it to work in a 5 shell but the phase 1 Clio having a bigger bay with room for FMIC etc
Sure they are ;)
If you give me the specific tdi engine I can confirm
DG
Seen a Passat 1.9 TDi engine on E Bay with the code AHU Duncs, then looking into it and there's a few codes for the 1.9 :ashamed:
AHF
ALH
AVB
Ricardo, yes it should work fine.
Ricardo, yes it should work fine.
OK, theoretically we're getting somwhere in the way that:
I could have a Clio 16V rolling shell in the garage, bespoke subframe with a 1.9 100 TDi in situ. I'd love a GT rolling shell but don't know if the TDi engine would fit in the GT engine bay, i assume the bespoke subframe is to allow the use of the VAG gearbox as well?
Does it all make sense so far :coffee: :)
OK, theoretically we're getting somwhere in the way that:
I could have a Clio 16V rolling shell in the garage, bespoke subframe with a 1.9 100 TDi in situ. I'd love a GT rolling shell but don't know if the TDi engine would fit in the GT engine bay, i assume the bespoke subframe is to allow the use of the VAG gearbox as well?
Does it all make sense so far :coffee: :)
sounds about right to me :)
not sure why you'd want to fit a diesel ? but I think the diesel engine should be of similar size to the 1.8T so might fit into the R5. the 1.8T is a very tight fit, mm's in some places and took some thinking about. The clio mk1 has more space in front of the engine, no more behind or to the sides.
VAG gearbox required with custom shafts and a cable-select remote shifter. use the 5 speed, 02J type. Pick your own code based on the ratio's you want. :)
:cooter:fancy building the diesel lump in my clio rich:laugh:
not sure why you'd want to fit a diesel ?
Torque. Reliability. Bloody good mpg. Chip-fat fuel. Good power gains for little work (remap, exhaust, intercooler).
Sounds ideal to me :agree: :D
In my mind it ticks many boxes:
There's the potential to remap the 1.9 TDi engine from 100ps to 133ps and give a final torque figure of 221ft/lbs from the respectable original figure of 184ft/lbs. All this in a lightweight shell and returning at least 50MPG
I guess adding those figures with a bespoke subframe already tried and tested, money permitting it's a feasible project given time and effort.
Low down torque and lightweight car i guess :) There's obviously a whole lot more to it/involvement in making it work.
Torque. Reliability. Bloody good mpg. Chip-fat fuel. Good power gains for little work (remap, exhaust, intercooler).
Sounds ideal to me :agree: :D
Toruqe = too much for such a light car I expect. At what speeds to you think all of that torque could be aplied to the road ? Probably at about the same speeds you wished you had more power.
Reliability = notably more than the 1.8T or other modern petrols ?
Good MPG = sure, at the expense of FUN and performance :D
:cooter: ;)
ofcourse, I'm having a laugh and am always interested to see different engine's fitted to these cars, but I genuinely don't think that the TDI is the way to go in such a light car.
.
Low down torque and lightweight car i guess :) There's obviously a whole lot more to it/involvement in making it work.
equals no traction, and as above when you reach speeds where you finally have traction you will start to wonder why you fitted a heavy engine with only 130hp.
I don't know, I'm probably not all that neutral on this subject. Maybe thats just how I would feel. I definatly wish you luck with it though, and if I can help in terms of advice then I'd be glad to :)
Doesn't the vag ecu come with traction control (or a variant of) as standard?
I can't see it causing an issue with wheel-spin either way though, at least certainly when not on the move.
I reckon it'll still give a good grin factor :D
Would the engine/box fit in a gtt bay Chris?
My thoughts were to sell the 172, source a GT rolling shell or Clio16V, source a 1.9TDi unit with ancillaries....... Sweet talk Scoff into fabricating a subframe :D and somehow make it all work. FMIC with hardpipe, exhaust, etc etc :cool:
Well I don't know anything about traction control in the factory management, I expect it does but will need a host of wheel speed sensors and other odds and ends fitting. On a similar note it would be worth looking for other people that had done convesrions with this engine, to make sure it's possible to re-use the ECU in a different car, if you havn't already Rich.
Mart, OK, lets say you rely on traction control - you'll then have the ECU limiting torque all the time, the only beneficial aspect of a TDI engine short of fuel ecconomy. In 1st, 2nd and probably 3rd gear you'll be spinning the wheels every time boost comes up and then it'll fall on flat on its arse once the power drops off. All the wrong things you need in a lightweight performance car.
I'll shut up now :) drop me a pm if you need any advice rich. merry xmas all :)
Would the engine/box fit in a gtt bay Chris?
I think so mate, but providing you have no issue with chopping the bulkhead or scuttle area about. We had to try a couple of different exhaust manifold variations and even then needed some bulkhead work to get the 1.8T in. I don't know what sort of crap the TDI engine has dangling down the back. Clio is slightly better because of the smaller scuttle areas meaning more space at the top rear of the bay. Also, you have the option to shift the engine forward a bit in the Clio, something you cannot do in an R5 bay.
Chris, thanks for taking the time to post on this thread. I'm all ears to how this would/wouldn't work, regards traction, torque etc. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to PM you with any queries.
It's something different, something i've been thinking about a while. I mean even running std 184ft/lbs in a Clio shell with 50mpg should be respectably quick but not break traction at every stab of the throttle?
I don't know the technicalities/ins and outs of this project, to me in lamens terms how i've described everything above makes me think it might work :ashamed:
The 2.0l lump is better, 140bhp and 240ft lbs standard, but i'm not sure if they do a 5 speed box. I suppose the box off the 1.9 would fit though. Although it's a fairly big engine too.
People rave about the rempas for them, with apparent figures of 180bhp and over 300ft lbs
hi on whilst on the subject ,do u have to run a cable box on the conversion?? or is it poss to run the dsg box ? thanks matt:ho:
rs250nut
24-12-2009, 21:30
The 2.0l lump is better, 140bhp and 240ft lbs standard, but i'm not sure if they do a 5 speed box. I suppose the box off the 1.9 would fit though. Although it's a fairly big engine too.
People rave about the rempas for them, with apparent figures of 180bhp and over 300ft lbs
Sounds pretty good to me, people rave about maximum hp figures but maybe this is all good for the quarter mile but out side this torque is king. Wrc cars make a tad over 300hp but make double the torque, I know which I would rather drive on the road.
Torque, hence thinking TDi route. The Megane 225, Focus RS are FWD cars out on the market and kick out plenty of torque on road. Torque and MPG though :)
I've seen the 2.0l engine in a mk2 golf doing 12's on the quater mile. You're limited to the standard turbo though unless you're prepared to spend alot of money on a hybrid. The manifold is cast into the exhaust housing of the turbo, so it's one peice, just like the 1.9.
hi on whilst on the subject ,do u have to run a cable box on the conversion?? or is it poss to run the dsg box ? thanks matt:ho:
think you can fit it to the 1.8 20v,appears so anyway after doing some research a while back,but would cost mega bucks,also if it goes wrong,which is unlikely,it is a lighter box to use though and im not sure of the ratings some folk are saying 246lb ft which is kind of measly in a tdi 170 and other say its more 300lb ft..???
:)
Duncan Grier
27-12-2009, 19:27
All, I seriously looked at this engine for a while with the dream of mega mpg, monster torque etc etc. But also looked at the RS4 engine box combo :D
You would need to stick to the 02J typre box - 6 speed is not going to fit unless LOTs of work and poss loss of ful lock one way. The vag 5 built is only runing 270ish bhp / torque and even with sticky tyres upto temp struggle with traction (diff fitted also)
Cannot see how the short range of big torque of diesel is going to help tbh
You wil need to convert to cable - eaasy enough although Big steve converted his on the clio vag conversion to run hyd version
The 1.8 20v could get 40mpg driven off boost and nice (never happened much lol)
Good luck either way - would love to see the end result though - black rod tuning :D
Stick a 2.0 vag TSI engine in ;)
DG
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