water and methonal injection

[r5 rich]

What are the pros and cones of using these systems?

I have tried to look into in but can`t find the answer that I am looking for so thought I would ask to see if anyone has run water and methonal injection on here to see what they though.

[Big Supes]

In short, I believe it helps reduce detonation while cooling the combustion chamber. Having it enables you to run more boost/gain more power. Not really aware of the cons as I've never had it on any of my cars.

[Duncan Grier]

Loads of well documented info on the web but the reason using methonal is used as it burns well unlike water which can weaken the mix slightly ;)

As stated can be used to help keep temps down or ability to run more advance / boost etc :)

DG

[r5 rich]

I was thinking of putting this kit into my clio as its more of a track/road toy but have been told that I won`t be able to run nos at the same time which was my first port of call but Mark got in there and bought the kit that I wanted before I had the chance to:cry:

[Rob@Backyardracing]

If your running NOS look into using Q16, you wont look back... ditch the water injection crap....

[Ian S]

It can help you run a few more PSI when you've reached the tweaking limit of what you have. There was a thread recently saying it was best not used and most of the fast 5's over the standing quarter were not using it.

I think the idea there is that it's better to make bigger changes, ie, drop the compression, to run more boost.

Aquamist had some blurb showing where lorry racers were able to go faster when using it.

It's is a fact though that water does take away a bit of power. But I was under the impression that, if done right, the gain from extra boost could be greater then the loss.

Water injections real job is to stop the detting, forget about cooling the internals, that's so minor it's just not a consideration.

I had water inj in my 5 and Mike Spencer had it in his 5 and we played with that a bit. It seemed to not rob any power. We could drive along in various gears and revs and switch it on for a few seconds and off and the noticeable effect was nil. What using it did do was allow him to add about 3 psi extra after when without it had started to det.

It seemed to have no such effect with mine. We'd fitted the jet in the wrong place, the side of the outlet of the intercooler. It should have been in the boost pipe as Mike and others later found that position to have an effect. My engine capitulated before I made the change. I also had too big a water jet, a 0.4mm seemed to be the optimum.

[Rob@Backyardracing]

Or just run a better fuel if you INTEND to make more power???? thats why i think its pointless in this modern day? with the new fuels coming out on the market over the last few years i dont see the point of using water???

[Alastair]

If you are limited to pump fuel it effectively increases your octane rating a tad, hence more boost before det. If your not restricted on fuel there are other Options you should consider, especially if your after bang for buck.

[Ian S]

We were all using the cars as daily road cars therefore on Tesco 98 fuel or whatever.

[michael tierney]

i would imagion that using water too much would contaminate your oil eventually ...shorten ur oil service ect

[Trevhib]

i would imagion that using water too much would contaminate your oil eventually ...shorten ur oil service ect

Your charge air doesn't mix with your oil. So why would adding atomised water to the charge cause a problem? The water is going through the combustion cycle, not the block/sump.

[phase i 16 v turbo]

I played around with this alot in the early 90s might have moved on sine then, but methanol is corrosive to alloy, so need to mix acetone in with it. The jet positioning, the size of the jet and the spray pattern is very important. Spent a lot of time seeing no improvements, but got there in the end, but using fuel pumps as there are a lot cheaper than Aquamist kit.

[michael tierney]

u will always get a certain amount of leakage past the rings thats why u have a breather system:)

[rs250nut]

Or just run a better fuel if you INTEND to make more power???? thats why i think its pointless in this modern day? with the new fuels coming out on the market over the last few years i dont see the point of using water???

Ive heard from a guy who used to work for a company down on the south coast called atol that elf do a turbo specfic fuel that is meant to be the bollocks, apparantly they spend more money than anyone else in the world blending there race fuels, I think the only down side being you can only buy it in 50+ litre drums as apposed to 25 litre drums.

[Ian S]

the size of the jet and the spray pattern is very important... using fuel pumps as there are a lot cheaper than Aquamist kit.

Fuel pumps are also only up to 5 bar? Compared to the Aquamist 12 bar with a small jet.

So that means much finer mist droplets and better dispersal.

People seemed to find that a 0.4mm jet worked best.

Fuel pumps also can rust internally when pumping water.

[phase i 16 v turbo]

Fuel pumps are also only up to 5 bar? Compared to the Aquamist 12 bar with a small jet.

So that means much finer mist droplets and better dispersal.

People seemed to find that a 0.4mm jet worked best.

Fuel pumps also can rust internally when pumping water.

We use to rump 2 - 3 pumps in series to increase the pressure, but the down side it they would burn out after a while as they don't like water. :laugh:

[Rob@Backyardracing]

Ok so whats peeps thoughts on the SG (specific gravity) of water compared to a normal high octain fuel and its cooling effect within a combustion chamber? you may think the water may cool piston tops better? :coffee:

[Mr_Dave]

Fuel pumps are also only up to 5 bar? Compared to the Aquamist 12 bar with a small jet.

So that means much finer mist droplets and better dispersal.

People seemed to find that a 0.4mm jet worked best.

Fuel pumps also can rust internally when pumping water.


I had a system going back a few years now, using a bosch pump of a old BMW 520 (I think...!) That was able to run the WI at 7.5-8bar without a problem. Think theres just a couple of the bosch pumps that can run at pretty high pressures, (generally oldskool injection cars) but like Ian says, most can't handle it. (check on the net, you can find pressure/flow rates of most pumps) Holts do a screenwash thats basically methanol, nice and easy to get hold of :) Again, we used the aquamist jets.

As to how effective it was, we didn't really have the gear at hand to get the best out of it, but it did feel a bit punchier with the water on. Ran a 0.5 jet, 24-25psi :)

The pump never packed up either! We ran about a 50/50 methanol/water mix, guess that was enough to provide lubrication to the pump.

have a butchers over on the great auzzi site of http://www.autospeed.com/cms/search/index.html?keywords=water+injection&x=0&y=0

:)

[Trevhib]

We use to rump 2 - 3 pumps in series to increase the pressure, but the down side it they would burn out after a while as they don't like water. :laugh:

You should have mentioned that the first time for those that don't know. Your first mention of it presented it as a good cost saving tip for someone wanting to have a go at fitting their own water injection.

[Trevhib]

u will always get a certain amount of leakage past the rings thats why u have a breather system:)

Aye, good point but how much atomised water do you think will survive the combustion cycle and squeeze past the rings? IMO, none, or at the least not nearly enough to warrant changing the oil sooner for that particular reason. The increase in power (via more boost in conjunction with water inj), would be a much better reason to up the frequency of oil changes.