I'LL GIVE £100 to anyone who can sort me ongoing boost problem.. [Archive]

Slim

20-10-2009, 01:38

:brickwall::brickwall::brickwall: :badone:

Ok... i am willing to pay someone there travel expenses to come to me... and if they fix my boost probem then I will give £100 ....

basic story....

car has been like this for 2 years... i cant take this crap no more.. :P

i have a boost fluctuation problem. Say if i try to run 16psi, boost will spike to18 then go down to say 11*variable.... then slowly rise back up and try to get to 16 except by then i have to change gear so wont reach 16 (my desired boost) I can feel the obvious power loss.

pls refer to my profile pics to see my setup.

I have tried lots of things im nearly out of ideas (expect 1 but dont think thats it)
-changed all main boost pipes (except the one from bottom of charge cooler to turbo..but checked that)

-changed all the vacuum to 6mm or 3mm *tried both

-took my dumpvalve away from the equation

- taken any bleed valve off... vacuum pipe is now running direct from actuator to either carb top or base *tried both

-even tried changing carb... which i think is unecessary.

Is anyone willing to come down and try to fx...?? as i sed they will get £100 to solve.. im even thinkin more... all i want is my car to run at a stable-ish boost (even if it has a 2psi spike i dont care as long as it sits stable)

Slim

20-10-2009, 01:41

oh and have tried different turbos.....

last thing i will check is to run it straight wivout any from of intercoolers for a test run... but im sure that i tried it ages ago.. and no joy.. but il try it again to make sure..

markey b

20-10-2009, 02:22

is your actuator dying? have u tried another? i can post one down if you need a std one to try out

markey b

20-10-2009, 02:23

ah just read the tried different turbo's bit.... :cartman:

Kenobi

20-10-2009, 07:24

Have you got a split or crack in carb top?

IANMM

20-10-2009, 08:50

is your actuator dying? have u tried another? i can post one down if you need a std one to try out

that would be my first thought too :agree:

stu21t

20-10-2009, 08:52

what size is your air ffilter hose?
i can lend you the best tool in the world for finding boost problems if you like.
i made a tool that you connect to the air filter hose and to an airline so you can pump they system up and find leaks.
you need a compressor and a tyre gauge tho.
i used it on mine and found i had 4 leaks on a new engine with all new hoses and everything,
it wouldnt go over 1.5bar boostt, once i fixed the leaks it went straight up to and held 3 bar.
youd be amazed how many you will have.
also got a -31 actuator you can borrow if you like?

IANMM

20-10-2009, 08:55

leaky intercooler...?

check gaskets and black spacer at bottom of carb...?

Check carb top for splits or holes...

IANMM

20-10-2009, 08:56

stu21t

20-10-2009, 09:03

sorry m8 i dont have a pic, and ive lent it to a m8 with troubles on his cossie.
its very simple but a huge help.

it turned out i had 2 leaks on my fuel pressure regulator and a leak on each charge cooler, but i had new coolers, new pipes, new clips and couldnt hear/feel any leaks.
after testing the car was a lot more responsive and could hold more boost.

sounds like the OP definately has a leak to me.

Sparkie

20-10-2009, 09:10

a mate of mine a had a similar piece of kit for his audi s2. - it consisted of two large nylon/delrin bungs with a valve in one end, so you could pump up the boost system.

stu21t

20-10-2009, 09:19

you dont need 2 bungs.
if you pump it up from the air filter it will turn the engine over till it shuts all the valves, then it will test everywhere including the inlet manifold.
doesnt matter whether the TB is open or closed either.

Jimmy_GTT

20-10-2009, 09:36

RussellT

20-10-2009, 09:43

Throtle Bodies at a guess

I made one of these testers too. Piece of samco hose blocked one end with an old spray can and put a tyre valve in the side and then used my tyre pump to pressurise the system. A very good idea.

stu21t

20-10-2009, 09:54

I made mine with a wastepipe rodding access, then the top can b unscrewed and different fittings screwed on. Then drill the cap out, fit a tyre valve and silicone it in place.
Pump up on an airline to just over what boost pressure you want to run.
As said I pumped mine to 3 bar and it held pressure fine.
And yes tb is throttle body.

Jimmy_GTT

20-10-2009, 10:15

Arrows

20-10-2009, 10:25

Sell the car then the problem has gone, then buy another one without the problem, problem solved, how do i let you know where to send the money. :D

Slim

20-10-2009, 11:38

i would love to get another one and js put some of my parts into it...thats wat i want to do but i cant afford it right now.

Is no one willing to come down?? ok... £150 pounds.??? not going more than that tho

stu21t

20-10-2009, 11:46

As I said on mine I removed the air filter and put my tester there, that way it tests the turbo seal all the way to the valves.

stu21t

20-10-2009, 11:48

Where are you? Can the car b driven?

Slim

20-10-2009, 11:53

im willing to help andyone find the prob (would be best anyway cos i know wats been done and wat not)

Slim

20-10-2009, 12:08

wat would it matter wat size air filter hose i have!?! even if i had no air filter it shouldnt have a problem..

stu21t

20-10-2009, 12:10

I'm reluctant to come round and help as it sounds like it has a few probs and I don't wanna get blamed for any thing that goes wrong.
But I will let you borrow my pressure tester to try yourself.

stu21t

20-10-2009, 12:12

Lol I wanted to know what size the pipe from air filter to turbo is so I know what size tester you need lol.

Slim

20-10-2009, 12:14

lol.. why would you be reluctant? do you know 5 gtts well?? if you do..shouldnt be a problem cos il know what your doing anyway.. and im not gna blame you wiv any problems that are not related!! there are no probs right now (other than the boost) but its just i dont wana go too far out as yesterday was my first day. and i had a few teathing probs..

but fair enuf if you dont wna.

Slim

20-10-2009, 12:14

lol ohh

Slim

20-10-2009, 12:14

but i wouldnt know how this tester works!! where abouts are you mate?

Bigfoot

20-10-2009, 12:19

Tester sounds pretty easy to use. Put in over the air filter hose, connect to an air source (air compressor) and release air, use your hand over the engine and find any air leaks which are happening, might actually create one myself as that seems like an excellent way of finding out air leaks. Guessing an air compressor as that would have a constant flow of air rather than using a hand/foot pump which wont be constant.

stu21t

20-10-2009, 12:26

I'm in Croydon and I know a little bit about cars in general lol ;)
the testers self explanitory, plug it in, fill it with air from a tyre gauge and listen/feel for leaks.
They are quite obvious wham testing like that.
I fixed 2 of my leaks by just addin an extra jubilee clip, so make sure you have a few extra boost clips knocking around.
I wouldn't like to come round fix a leak then go up the road and find it's got 3 bar boost, an oil leak and a dodgy headgasket then I look bad when it goes pop lol
I'm not sayin this will hapen And not a dig at you but I've had bad experiences helpin others in the past.

stu21t

20-10-2009, 12:29

It goes in the filter hose, like the metal trumpet of an air filter would.
And it needs an airline on a compressor, hand/foot pump won't work.

Slim

20-10-2009, 13:34

hmmm is there any chance u can post it.. (i will pay pnp)

whats this tyre gauge i need? ( wat it does and where can i get one)... im guessing its just to connect to your device and just pump wiv air?

Slim

20-10-2009, 13:44

oh.. can it be anything to do wiv valve clearances??? or inlet manifold?? (not that i can hear any leaks)

also on the top of the carb.. pipe go somewhere(im told to servo) and im sure one goes to dash boost gauge (oe).. can i disconnect all this???/

stu21t

20-10-2009, 13:45

Tyre gauge as in to fill your tyres up with air, could always go to a petrol station if you don't have 1 or no compressor.
As for postin it I could but with royal mail as they are it could take forever to get to you, I could dhl it but unsure what if would cost. It weighs nothing but would have to go in a box so it doesn't get broken.
What's your address?

Slim

20-10-2009, 13:52

ive got a compressor already
do u think i can make one?
do u know roughly how much it'l be to send?

stu21t

20-10-2009, 14:30

You can, it's probably easier than sending you mine.
Get to a plumbing/diy shop, you want a 2"/55mm rodding access for waste pipe
then get a tyre valve from a tyre shop, drill a hole in the cap so the valve fits in there tightly, then load the end of the valve up with silicone and pull it through.
Wait till the next day before you use it so the silicone has a chance to dry.
If the 55mm fitting isn't quite enough to fill the hose the use ductape or a silicone hose as a packer and put it where the air filter normally goes.
I would leave everything connected to the boost system that the car will run when it's fixed and test the lot.
You can use your boost gauge to see how much pressure your putting in. (might need to pull it out the dash and connect it to a short bit of pipe in the engine bay so you can see it)

but don't over pressurise it or you could pop a seal. Only go a few psi over what you intend to run so if you wanna run 18 then test to 20psi...

Gttnutter

20-10-2009, 14:48

Slim have you changed the actuator for a known working one with a good spring ?

I've just called marky mark and theres a chance he may well be able to come over to you tonight about 7 or so possible is the engine aboe to be lit up ?

Slim

20-10-2009, 15:03

"possible is the engine aboe to be lit up" sorry wat does that mean??

ye changed the actuator countless times wiv different turbos... think i got a -31 on it now.. not sure.. but ur welcome to come n have a butchers :scratch:

tnite..im gna try changing carb top (although mine is the metal one from gt tuning) and disconect charge cooler from boost circuit... if anyone wants to come round js contact me on my mobi 07514 706 724.. im goin out now for a bit but bak in a short while :cooter:

Slim

20-10-2009, 15:03

i can get light if needed..

Mart

20-10-2009, 15:05

Colin/Master isn't that far from you. Might be worth dropping him a PM & see if he can come to your rescue.

Gttnutter

20-10-2009, 15:15

Yep was ment to say can the engine bay be lit up ie it gets dark in the eve

I've given mark your number so he will most likly give you a bell shortly :agree:

Slim

20-10-2009, 17:39

ye unfortunatly colin is 'out of order' .... :( think hes fecked his wrist up somehow :disagree:

Os8472

20-10-2009, 18:17

I know what the problem is :D

Slim

20-10-2009, 20:19

ok thanks banana man, il try that...come to think of ive got an re209 (phase 2- aei) on there atm but still located on top of the turbo, but also im not sure if i had the same problem with the phase 1 aei, but i think i did... il report back peeps :dearme:

RussellT

20-10-2009, 21:56

to find the leaks with the system pressurised mix some fairy liquid in water and paint onto joins with a brush. It foams up if there is an air leak.

I would start at the carb top and move back through the boost circuit.

Slim

21-10-2009, 00:57

ok... wasnt the aei.... could it be inlet manifold wivout me noticing?? im normally good at hearing noises :rolleyes:

stu21t

21-10-2009, 22:03

its A Boost Leak Somewhere
get The Tester Made And Stick It On.

Markey Mark (BD)

21-10-2009, 22:09

its A Boost Leak Somewhere
get The Tester Made And Stick It On.

:agree: or actuator set up problem but stu's on the right line i recon.

Sorry didn;t text you slim mate last night, was late back so didn;t get time to come round.

stu21t

21-10-2009, 22:54

Yeah it could but he said he's tried 2 turbos and 2 actuators and has a new -31 on there I'd put money on it being a boost leak.

Spooky

21-10-2009, 23:01

On the subject of boost...

Ive got a t28 fitted, with a -31 actuator, yet I can't get anything above 9-10psi above manifold pressure.

If I slip a bleed valve on, its fine, boost to where I want.

I dont want the bleed valve in place, so how can I increase the boost further ? :ashamed:

Scoff

21-10-2009, 23:09

-31 normally holds about 12psi spooky - make sure the preload is ok - normally you need to pull the rod about "half a hole"'s worth to hook it onto the wastegate. if it looks OK, trying shortening the rod and see how that goes.

Slim

22-10-2009, 00:01

ok... done the soapy water test today.... no leaks in the main boost circuit... im 100%sure no leaks (from turbo to carb top + actuator to carb base)

the one im thinking that may be affecting it (hoping its it).. is the vacuum pipe going to the oe boost gauge... ive taken it off now n blocked it... wanted to do another test run but the belt keeps slipping/breaking off!! :brickwall: the pulley has a ridge on it!! so no more testing til i get another pulley (which ive ordered today from renault) .. i js hope it is this pipe that was causing the issue cos this is the ONLY one ive not touched before.... il do a test run soon again.

il keep you guys updated (and yes i also strongly think it must be a leak somewhere ... obvoiously) but this ones not an easy one...as ive had many people look at it.. including k-tec! and many other people who know these cars inside out.... n im not so bad myself (not tryin to big myself up) ..... no ones ever found it.... so im js baffed!

OH 1 More thing...

Can someone pls re-assure me.. it cant be anything to do wiv any valve's or engine component or exhaust blow or somthing... cos as far as im aware doesnt even matter if u have no exhuast....

Slim

22-10-2009, 00:03

oh and did the sight go down or is that just me??

Slim

22-10-2009, 00:09

oh... and erm... sory to bother you again... but on my actuator.. i only can find a long number wiv a -30 (looks like) on it.... :P

does that make sense to anyone...

Slim

23-10-2009, 17:45

IVE DONE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D:D

ok.. so after years of having this stupid problem... it ended up being the only thing i ddnt change....

i js blocked off the pipe from the carb going to the standard oe boost gauge.. and voila!!! STABLE BOOST AT LAST!!! and she feels so much better!!!

thanks for the help guys..

markey b

23-10-2009, 19:09

well done for sortin it, plus you've saved a ton :agree:

Shane P

24-10-2009, 07:53

May be worth getting the little anti-belt jumping metal piece, that attaches to the water pump, to go with your replacement bottom pulley :smokin:

r5 rich

24-10-2009, 08:09

now i think you should donate the £100 to rtoc for help on this topic:cooter:

Slim

24-10-2009, 12:20

May be worth getting the little anti-belt jumping metal piece, that attaches to the water pump, to go with your replacement bottom pulley :smokin:

OH YE!!! thats wat i need too!!! thanksss...... im gna look for a spare before i buy it this time..

Anyone got one spare??? lol

Slim

31-10-2009, 22:16

SCRAP THAT COMMENT ABOUT ME FIXING THE BOOST PROBLEM...!! ITS STILL THERE:mad::mad::brickwall::brickwall::cry::cry::di sagree::(:(:upyours2::upyours2:

:cry::cry: OFFER STILL STANDS TO ANYONE WHO CAN FIX IT.....

Slim

31-10-2009, 22:17

The only thing i can think of next is either the inlet manifold (which looks and sounds fine)... or the engine!!!! wat crap!!

Slim

31-10-2009, 22:24

i thought it was ok before.. cos i disconected the std oe gauge... but also ran the actuator straight to the carb... I thought it was ok but it still had a 2 psi spike at 12psi,,, but the spike was lower becos i ran less boost. Now ive put the incar boost back... wen runing higher boost ie 16... it drops 4-5 psi....

the hight ther boost i run the more of the boost drop....

PLEASE HELP ME SOMEONE... im really thinkin of buyin another 5 just cos of this.. but i dont want to cos ive done so much...i know it must be somthin someone can fix!!!!!

Scoff

31-10-2009, 23:31

Slim

31-10-2009, 23:43

It will be one of three things:

1) Boost leak
2) Poor actuator
3) Throttle adjustment

1) How did you check the boost circuit ? The best way is to block off the air filter and put an air line into one of the carb ports, it should not leak away fast.

2) Have you tried a better actuator ? If its the standard twin-port, have you tried re-connecting the front port ?

3) Have you checked that you are getting full throttle ? Have someone press the pedal to the floor while you check that it is moving the linkage on the carb ALL of the way, not just 1/2 or 3/4 etc

1) i have changed most of my boost pipes to new ones... only old one is the turbo2charge cooler pipe.. which i took off many times to double chek.. il tripple check it... boost circuit goes from turbo to charge cooler,, to intercooler - hard pipe (changed) to carb)

2) yes a while ago... but this is yet another new actuator.. i js got the turbo rebuilt and this actuator has -30 on it :S yet im sure i saw -31 on it before i got it back from turbo company (they sprayed it)

3) yep checked that

---------------

could it be like a valve or anything to do with the head?? or inlet manifold?? im gna try changing the inlet manifold next....

if i do wat u say in 1) ... which i want to do... would i leave all the vacuum pipes intact?

Slim

31-10-2009, 23:45

Im just getin sick of this and very upset cos its been like a 2 year ongoing problem.. ive really had enuf of trying.. thats why i js wna give it to someone to sort!!! but il have to keep tryin if no one wants to try.... if i cant.. il end up buying another 5 wich i really dont wna do :(

used to have a ktr350 rollerbearing and sold it cos i thought it was that... then moved to various turbos.. now on another t28.. and still :(

Scoff

31-10-2009, 23:47

1) then you need to check the whole boost circuit, by pressurising it like I describe. Can you be sure that your charge cooler or intercooler don't have leaks ?

2) So a possibility then. Would be worth trying something different, one that you know works. What is the pre-load set to ? About 4mm is normal.

3) Fair enough, rule that one out then.

Slim

31-10-2009, 23:50

would it really matter the preload?? i dont really understand preload in mm... all i know is that i set it to like 10psi.....then i stick the incar boost controll on...

could it be anything on the head?
am i correct in saying even if i had a big hole in the exhaust it shouldnt matter??

Scoff

31-10-2009, 23:52

An easier (but less effective) test for boost leaks is this:

1/ Remove and blank off D/V if present.

2/ Remove air filter. Find a sheet of metal or something sturdy that you can use to press against the air filter pipe to block the inlet to the turbo.

3/ Leave air filter pipe open to begin with.

4/ Start engine

5/ Hold revs at 2000rpm

6/ Place metal sheet/whatever over air filter pipe to block the engine's air supply.

7/ If the system is air tight then the boost pipes will suck themselves in flat and the engine will stall quickly.

8/ If the engine continues to run, or you can hear air being sucked in somewhere, you need to investigate further.

Scoff

31-10-2009, 23:53

Preload is the amount you have to pull the actuator to hook onto the waste gate. Un-hook the arm, make sure the gate is closed and look at the distance between the 2.

Slim

01-11-2009, 00:15

preload..oh right.. ok.. ye its about 4mm

i js went for a run... wivout the intercooler and chargecooler...

from turbo straight to carb.....

Still same problem.. SO ITS 100 % defo not those 2

Slim

01-11-2009, 00:21

il try that scoff ... but wat if i cant hear any leaks and it still runs?? cos its quite loud n all... thanks for tryin to help tho..

could it be a valve not sealing or somthing like that? (i dont know much about valves n heads) but the engine was rebuilt recently tho.. but ive had the prob even before that..

Jimmy_GTT

01-11-2009, 08:21

Do you have now a bleed valve fitted?
Disconect it.

I don't think that a valve problem can cause such problem but youu can try a compression test.

Are you running on cup mod?
Check all the pipes from carb to turbo, carb to fuel pressure regulator. Maybe there is only a little crack on one of the pipes. Disconnect them one by one and pressure test them with a foot pump...
Have you changed the fuel filter recently? Changing the fuel pressure regulator?

Slim

01-11-2009, 11:36

"carb to fuel pressure regulator".... this is where i dnt know how..

Slim

01-11-2009, 11:38

p.s i need a bleed valve to run any more than 14psi.. else i cant get the actuator on... rod is kinda hard to pull :scared:

Slim

01-11-2009, 11:42

there a 2 pipes that i am not familiar with (and i cant see the other end)

1) from the carb top -- the black pipe shared wiv the oe boost gauge
2) from the back of the inlet there are 2 pipes. one is blocked off.. but the other i cant see where it goes...

could it be any of them?? anyoe knw where they go???

Slim

01-11-2009, 12:32

can anyone tell me how to test the fuel pressure regulator?? do i js blow the pipe that goes to it?? which one is this?

Jimmy_GTT

01-11-2009, 13:02

can anyone tell me how to test the fuel pressure regulator?? do i js blow the pipe that goes to it?? which one is this?

I think you can pull of the pipe from the carb top which goes to the fuel pressure regulaator, and pressure test it. If you are running around 17psi @ manifold, than it have to keep a 20-21psi without a problem.

I'd really take the bleed valve out. They used to have a ball with a spring in it to work as a one way valve but I'm sure it can cause the problem.
I suggest to take it out and simply put a T piece in its place. It should be in the tube which goes from the carb to the actuator. And the 3rd connection should be open. But you have to take care not to overboost. Put some restrictor to this open pipe.

The 2 pipes on the back of the inlet:
- one goes to the brake servo
- 2nd is breather system (I think this is blocked)
But they are connected to one way valves in the inlet.

Scoff

01-11-2009, 13:15

Jimmy has a good point, it might just be your in-car adjuster causing the problem (long/thin pipes too and from the in-car adjuster cause spiking)

Do as he says and remove it. Use a normal under bonnet bleed valve instead (jimmy, only the PRV types have a ball and spring, the normal under bonnet valve will work the same as your T-piece idea)

stu21t

01-11-2009, 13:20

you will nearly always have a boost spike anyway.
have you been in another car with a similar setup and not had one?
im just wondering if your trying to cure something thats not there?
i have a much bigger spike than 4psi in my car. its nothing to worry about if youve tested for faults and can find any.
only way to run without a spike is with a proper boost controller or air injectors(obviously not on a 5)

all a boost spike is, is when the actuator opens it opens a little too far to begine with then settles to what its set at.
also what gear are you testing the car in?
my car only makes stable full boost in 4/5th gear, its the only time the turbo/engine have enough load to make full boost.

stu21t

01-11-2009, 13:22

i use fuel hose for all my vacuum/boost pipes
its a much thicker rubber with a weave running through it and braid over the top.
if you use silicone pipes they can expand and loose the pressure/give a false reading.

Scoff

01-11-2009, 13:33

Stu, its not normal to spike 4-5 psi at only 16psi of boost, that is a problem.

Boost spiking (if not a leak, etc) is not the actuator opening too far but rarter it not opening far enough (read above, delayed signal from long/thin in-car pipe work).

stu21t

01-11-2009, 13:36

lol i spose im thining mine spikes more but then im running 2bar so more than double what his is.
tend to forget the details like that. lol
and doh, yep actuator holding back not too far.

Scoff

01-11-2009, 13:52

Have you tried an external gate stu ? I run similar boost to you, the internal gate was getting sloppy at 26psi or more. External tial does not spike even 1psi !

Slim

01-11-2009, 13:53

Ive been in about 20 different 5's.... most wiv incar boost....

i know this is defo not normall... im not a novice..

for the incar boost... i have one bleed valve under the bonnet (which connects to carb base, actuator... and other is going to incar boost control) this is correct right?

can i take the one under the bonnet out? will it still work??

Slim

01-11-2009, 13:54

i mean will the incar boost still work.. by replacing the under bonnet bleed valve wiv a t-peice

Scoff

01-11-2009, 14:03

Slim m8, you're not listening ;)

Use only the under-bonnet valve. Disconnect the in-car. Set the under-bonnet to your desired boost, with the middle port open to atmosphere. See how that goes.

Slim

01-11-2009, 14:06

Slim m8, you're not listening ;)

Use only the under-bonnet valve. Disconnect the in-car. Set the under-bonnet to your desired boost, with the middle port open to atmosphere. See how that goes.

k.. il give that a try..... but i should be able to use incar boost if i wanted to... :(

Scoff

01-11-2009, 14:13

Yeah you should, but you have to atleast know which part of your system is causing the problem before you can rectify it.

stu21t

01-11-2009, 14:16

Have you tried an external gate stu ? I run similar boost to you, the internal gate was getting sloppy at 26psi or more. External tial does not spike even 1psi !

no m8, but i have decided ive come to the end of the road with the 5 now.
not spending any more money on it.
im going to tidy up and improve on what ive got but im not going to spend any more money changing parts on it.
time to start the next project now.

Slim

01-11-2009, 14:18

true.... il have a go in a couple of hours... n report back.... n il make sure preload is 4mm ...

Jimmy_GTT

01-11-2009, 16:06

Slim m8, you're not listening ;)

Use only the under-bonnet valve. Disconnect the in-car. Set the under-bonnet to your desired boost, with the middle port open to atmosphere. See how that goes.

What I had in car adjustable had that little spring and ball in the T piece of the controller. So I really sugest to change it to a simple T and give it a try.

Jimmy_GTT

01-11-2009, 16:07

i mean will the incar boost still work.. by replacing the under bonnet bleed valve wiv a t-peice

For me it has worked fine.

Slim

01-11-2009, 16:14

For me it has worked fine.

hmmm can you just use a t-piece under bonnet instead of bleed valve..?? (wiv incar booost) is that wat u mean?

k.. i tried wiv just a bleed valve.... its better ..slightly. it now just spikes 3psi ish... still think it can be better.. (boosts to 17..then drops to 14)

Brigsy

01-11-2009, 16:41

Check your actuator bracket is securely fixed to the turbo & doesnt flex. I had a similar problem years ago & found the bolts were loose/missing.

Slim

01-11-2009, 17:11

Check your actuator bracket is securely fixed to the turbo & doesnt flex. I had a similar problem years ago & found the bolts were loose/missing.

thanks mate... thats checked and secure... very lol

Slim

01-11-2009, 17:14

Jimmy_GTT

01-11-2009, 18:06

hmmm can you just use a t-piece under bonnet instead of bleed valve..?? (wiv incar booost) is that wat u mean?

k.. i tried wiv just a bleed valve.... its better ..slightly. it now just spikes 3psi ish... still think it can be better.. (boosts to 17..then drops to 14)

Yes. It has worked fine.
Because for the bleed valve I had it was documented that it can cause such problem.
It was some cheap stuff from ebay.
Now I only have a single T instead of it.
The bleed valve should have a one way valve solution not to suck air from the open tube.

Jimmy_GTT

01-11-2009, 18:09

ive tried all sorts of pipe configurations u wouldnt believe lol....

im js tryin to keep it as basic as possible at the moment... but ive just taken vaccuum pipe from carb base and put it in the carb top instead... n loop from carb top to carb base..

also... on the other side of the carb (driver side).. there is another similar pipe going from top.. to base... i can remove that right??

Loop from carb top to carb base???
That's sounds crazy. Under pressure you are leaning the mixture!!!

Just have the cup mod and keep all the pipes in their std. place!

And maybe drop some pics from your engine bay.

Slim

01-11-2009, 18:46

Loop from carb top to carb base???
That's sounds crazy. Under pressure you are leaning the mixture!!!

Just have the cup mod and keep all the pipes in their std. place!

And maybe drop some pics from your engine bay.

hmm not sure u know wat i mean... look at the pic of my engine bay (thats a bit old tho things hav changed)

basically... on the carb top.. (the red pipe going into the carb top). .... instead.. im gna try puting one to the actuator... and the other where the actuator goes to know (carb base???) get me..?

Slim

01-11-2009, 18:48

and can you see next to my 2 yellow water hoses.... the carb top has one port blocked off... and the other has black pipes coming off.. one of those black pipes normall goes back to the carb??? can i take that off???

Jimmy_GTT

01-11-2009, 19:28

hmm not sure u know wat i mean... look at the pic of my engine bay (thats a bit old tho things hav changed)

basically... on the carb top.. (the red pipe going into the carb top). .... instead.. im gna try puting one to the actuator... and the other where the actuator goes to know (carb base???) get me..?

That is what I'm talking about. You are planning to connect the carb top and the carb base with a pipe. And with that I think you will lean out the mixture.
In the other hand if you are connecting the actuator to the carb top you will get less pressure.

But I'm pretty sure that the your T piece (bleed valve) has a one way valve in it.
Try to replace it with a normal T.

Jimmy_GTT

01-11-2009, 19:29

Slim

01-11-2009, 19:33

It is normal that way. It gooes to the side of the accelerator pump.

ye i know its suppose to be like that... but correct me if im wrong in saying some people take it out... block the pipe taken off n leave the other open?? not related to cup mod??

maybe im way off... but im sure ive heard this.. :sad2:

Slim

01-11-2009, 19:35

k.. im gna try my incar wiv a normal t piece under the bonnet... instead of the bleed valve n il report back...

Jimmy_GTT

01-11-2009, 19:57

Read this article from TurboSmart.
Page 3 is what I'm talking about.

http://www.turbosmartonline.com/index.php?s=file_download&id=200

Slim

01-11-2009, 20:48

thanks mate... i know how to setup an incar boost the normal way.. (wiv bleed valve under bonnet instead of t-peice)

http://www.rtoc.org/files/Technical%20Files/miscellaneous%20Technical%20Files/incar%20boost%20controller.jpg

this is how most people do it...

there is also another type of incar boost controller... a 3 port... one will go to the actuator... one to the carb... and one goes to atmosphere... (the one above is really a 2 port)...

Slim

01-11-2009, 20:51

i wana buy n try a 3 port incar boost.....

Slim

01-11-2009, 20:53

OK PEOPLE... IVE ORDERED THAT BUNG SO I CAN PRESSURISE THE BOOST CIRCUIT WHILE THE CAR IS OFF... so js waiting for that...

in the meantime im gna do some more testing wiv just the under bonnet bleed valve..

then il test wiv the incar boost wiv the t-piece instead of bleed valve..

Jimmy_GTT

01-11-2009, 20:55

But have you checked page3?
There it is written why it can cause spiking.

Slim

01-11-2009, 21:00

But have you checked page3?
There it is written why it can cause spiking.

ahh yess... but i havent got one of those spring and ball thingies... i got a different one wivout the spring n ball..... but its still a bleed valve... so il js put a normal in place of my underbonnet bleed valve n give it a go now... probly tmrw now..:coffee:

thanks for tryin to help :)

Jimmy_GTT

01-11-2009, 21:07

ahh yess... but i havent got one of those spring and ball thingies... i got a different one wivout the spring n ball..... but its still a bleed valve... so il js put a normal in place of my underbonnet bleed valve n give it a go now... probly tmrw now..:coffee:

thanks for tryin to help :)

But than that is also a normal T piece, isn't it?
Buy the picture of your engine bay I tought you have such a bleed valve with the ball and the spring. Once I had such controller installed it was very bad till I removed the spring and the ball.

I'm really looking for your test results! ;)

Slim

01-11-2009, 23:57

ok.. looks a bit better... i think im getting a spike of roughly 2psi no less.. hard to tell.. but its more like it...need more testing.. to be sure... n every time i test it .. i feel bait cos the car is so dam loud i think im gna get pulled over!! :P but i 'think' its better wiv the under bonnet replaced wiv just the t=piece.

Thing is now... my incar boost adjuster hardly adjusts now (obviously.. cos theres less air being bled out)... so thinking i should put the preload up cos only can get around 16 psi then the nob falls out lol..... if i put the preload up will it effect things negativly??

maybe i should get a different type of incar boost... one that doesnt need an under bonnet bleed valve.. (my brother has one on his 5) his goes from actuator.. to incar boost controller.. then from incar boost controller to carb.. and incar boost to nothing ... hope u get it..

in the mean time.. il be testing more... and playin wiv the preload....

Slim

02-11-2009, 00:15

Jimmy_GTT

02-11-2009, 06:10

mate is this wat u had before?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/UNIVERSAL-MANUAL-IN-CAR-BOOST-CONTROLLER-VALVE-KIT-BN_W0QQitemZ180426660030QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Cars Parts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item2a024458be

Exactly. Only in another colour. ;)

But what I have learnt here there is no need for such boost controller at all.
You would like to set up your car for let's say 18psi. Than you need to set up the fueling for it. Once it is good if you increase the boost, you will lean out the mixture is fou decrease you will make it reach.
The best thing would be to set up the required boost by only the actuator. But currently my actuator is not able to keep 17psi. So I use a little T piece and let its 3rd line to air. And by controlling the diameter of this open pipe I was able to set up the boost. But I'd like to buy an actuator so I do not need such tricks.
The other problem is what other members have already mentioned that if you use such in car controller you will install more than 1 meter silicon tube to your system. And it can also make such spike. Keep the tubes short as possible and better use petrol tubes.

Slim

02-11-2009, 12:42

ye.. i dont use alot of silicon vacuum pipe... alot of it is the plastic type wiv silicon on the end to join.. the only silicon bit i use is from actuator to carb...

and even wen i hook up my actuator wivout any bleed valve it still spiking 2 psi.. but much less than having the 2 bleed valves on.... 1 is not so bad...

on the note of its better to have no incar boost... sometimes i dont want *full power. Sometimes i feel its better to turn down the boost for the smaller road else il be going off road..:scared: i leave the bigger boost for bigger roads.. (i mean on race track ...would never speak on public roads ;) )

Slim

04-11-2009, 00:39

k... well at the moment.. im runing 15 psi wivout the under bonnet bleed valve...

Its spiking but only 2 psi.. im happy enuf wiv dat... atm.. gna do more testing wiv another type of incar boost system...

Slim

04-11-2009, 21:12

ok kul... think im done testing wiv everything now.... ive changed my incar boost so its able to bleed more air while at a lower preload...

im happy enuf now cos its only spiking 2ish psi.. Im guessing its cos its got a rather long boost circuit to finally get back to the actuator (charge cooler, intercooler) .. ive shortend the actuator pipes as much as i can...

i have an idea tho to help even more....

Wat if I make an outlet on the pipe just after the charge cooler... so instead of the actuator getin its pressure from the carb... its geting it quicker from the boost pipe???

ANYONE PLEASE FEEL FREE TO COMMENT ON THIS IDEA hehe

Slim

04-11-2009, 22:50

anyone??

Slim

05-11-2009, 14:28

Jimmy_GTT

05-11-2009, 14:40

ok guys.. dno if anyone is reading this lol... but im gna try somethin to try and eliminate the 2psi boost spike even further..

i am in the process of making an outlet on the boost pipe from charge cooler... that will go to the actuator... hopefuly it will reduce the boost spike more becos the actuator should get a boost reading quicker than it would get from the carb??

i will report back.. js for the sake of it lol :scared:

It could be a solution, but not the best one.
But there are turbos which have a connection on the compressor house and tubed directly to the wastegate.

I do not remember, have you already made a full pressure test on your complete system? It was advised here eariler.

Slim

05-11-2009, 14:47

It could be a solution, but not the best one.
But there are turbos which have a connection on the compressor house and tubed directly to the wastegate.

I do not remember, have you already made a full pressure test on your complete system? It was advised here eariler.

na. not yet.. im still waiting for the bung to come thru in the post.... but in the mean time.. ive reduced the main problem (the 5 psi unstable boost) now it just spikes 2psi.. sometimes 3 but no more.... so in the meantime.. while the bung is not here.. im trying different things... cos i know 100% the chargecooler and intercooler dont have any leaks :)

Jimmy_GTT

05-11-2009, 16:01

na. not yet.. im still waiting for the bung to come thru in the post.... but in the mean time.. ive reduced the main problem (the 5 psi unstable boost) now it just spikes 2psi.. sometimes 3 but no more.... so in the meantime.. while the bung is not here.. im trying different things... cos i know 100% the chargecooler and intercooler dont have any leaks :)

Okay, than have I earned the 60% of the offered money? :cooter::D

Slim

05-11-2009, 21:00

Okay, than have I earned the 60% of the offered money? :cooter::D

lol.. no sorry.. its 100% or nothing :P .. plus u need to actualy carry the work out.. not make me do it all ;) :scared:

right.. getting the actuator to read boost from the chargecooler boost pipe instead of the carb didnt really make any difference... so il still be waiting for the bung to come thru...

can anyone tell me about preload??? i cant decide or work out in my head which would be better to counteract boost spike... stiffer rod or softer :scratch:

rs250nut

05-11-2009, 21:30

Simple and quick solution to your obvious nightmare. Get said in-car goat valve and proceed to throw over your shoulder, after you have found it and smashed it with a big hammer proceed to part 2. Adjust fueling with wideband kit to required boost pressure.Now after a cup of tea and a quick smoke set about adjusting actuator of if you cant get it to boost high enough replace actuator with one with a stronger spring. If you dont want to go so fast on small roads put less pressure on the throttle.:ashamed:

Os8472

05-11-2009, 22:30

ye.. i dont use alot of silicon vacuum pipe... alot of it is the plastic type wiv silicon on the end to join.. the only silicon bit i use is from actuator to carb...

When you say the plastic type, do you mean that whiteish ridgid plastic pipe or the cheapo style vacuum pipe off the ebay?

either way I'd start by getting rid of it and using proper silicone stuff along the whole run, I've seen the plastic stuff get so hot it sucks flat when not on boost, a mates supra did this and his wastegate stopped working, not good when his car makes near as damn it 700bhp

Slim

06-11-2009, 00:22

OMG just now coming back home it done the 5 psi spike thing again!!:cry: ARRGGGG... im gna wait for the bung!!!! :mad: :scratch: must be a feckin leak somewhere!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Slim

06-11-2009, 19:22

P.S

OFFER STILL STANDS. £150 pounds to anyone who 'comes here and fixes it'.... not tryin to give me hints or advice then i fix it.... I DONT WNA DO IT MYSELF! im pissed off wiv it!!

Jimmy_GTT

07-11-2009, 07:40

P.S

OFFER STILL STANDS. £150 pounds to anyone who 'comes here and fixes it'.... not tryin to give me hints or advice then i fix it.... I DONT WNA DO IT MYSELF! im pissed off wiv it!!

I'd really like to help you. Not because of the money.
But you are more than 2.000kms away. :crap:

Trevhib

07-11-2009, 09:07

When you say the plastic type, do you mean that whiteish ridgid plastic pipe or the cheapo style vacuum pipe off the ebay?

either way I'd start by getting rid of it and using proper silicone stuff along the whole run, I've seen the plastic stuff get so hot it sucks flat when not on boost, a mates supra did this and his wastegate stopped working, not good when his car makes near as damn it 700bhp

I've read this whole feckin thing and intended to say, put up a recent pic of your bay and let's have a look at it. I was expecting to see some sh*tty silicone hosing between carb and AEI, actuator, in-car boost etc somewhere along the line. But then Os beat me to it, lol. As he says, this stuff is sh*t and causes the exact problems you're having. What you want is as much of the original black, thick-walled hosing in there as possible with all the restrictors in place. Firstly though, dump the in-car. I had THE SAME problem with a K-Tec in-car (and that was with the rigid pipe, barring where it joins), and despite it not being the end of the world, it's the most irritating thing ever -- as you are finding out.

If I were you, I'd get rid of the bleed valve and the in-car set up, make the pipework as OE as possible (or Cup mod), and test it and then get back to us. I bet it's much better.

Get a pic a of your bay up the way it is now too.

Slim

08-11-2009, 01:08

I'd really like to help you. Not because of the money.
But you are more than 2.000kms away. :crap:

Thanks bud... its such an annoying problem... the engine is fine.. everything bloody works fine except the boost!!

since last update... ive tried NO BLEED VALVE.... and ive also tried FUEL PIPE INSTEAD OF SILICON pipe.... still no go.... im sure its not the incar(yes ive tried wivout) but i want incar boost OK!! (i have 3 different types now)

oh... today.. i found a gasket missing!! where the car attaches to the inlet manifold... there is suppose to be 2 gaskets and a plastic spacer.... 1 OF THE GASKETS WAS MISSING!!! im gna hopefully change it tmrw. .if i can get hold of one...

so..... place your bets... who thinks this is the culprit??????? lol

Slim

08-11-2009, 01:12

*carb not car

Jimmy_GTT

08-11-2009, 05:43

Thanks bud... its such an annoying problem... the engine is fine.. everything bloody works fine except the boost!!

since last update... ive tried NO BLEED VALVE.... and ive also tried FUEL PIPE INSTEAD OF SILICON pipe.... still no go.... im sure its not the incar(yes ive tried wivout) but i want incar boost OK!! (i have 3 different types now)

oh... today.. i found a gasket missing!! where the car attaches to the inlet manifold... there is suppose to be 2 gaskets and a plastic spacer.... 1 OF THE GASKETS WAS MISSING!!! im gna hopefully change it tmrw. .if i can get hold of one...

so..... place your bets... who thinks this is the culprit??????? lol

I think it could be!
But the pressure test which was mentioned several times should point it out.
Which gasket was missing? Top or bottom?

Os8472

08-11-2009, 08:20

Thanks bud... its such an annoying problem... the engine is fine.. everything bloody works fine except the boost!!

since last update... ive tried NO BLEED VALVE.... and ive also tried FUEL PIPE INSTEAD OF SILICON pipe.... still no go.... im sure its not the incar(yes ive tried wivout) but i want incar boost OK!! (i have 3 different types now)

oh... today.. i found a gasket missing!! where the car attaches to the inlet manifold... there is suppose to be 2 gaskets and a plastic spacer.... 1 OF THE GASKETS WAS MISSING!!! im gna hopefully change it tmrw. .if i can get hold of one...

so..... place your bets... who thinks this is the culprit??????? lol

That certenatly wouldn't help matters, did you do a pressure test with the throttle fully open? If not it wouldn't have shown up as its after the butterfly

Shane P

08-11-2009, 09:58

since last update... ive tried NO BLEED VALVE.... and ive also tried FUEL PIPE INSTEAD OF SILICON pipe.... still no go.... im sure its not the incar(yes ive tried wivout) but i want incar boost OK!!

Actually its not. Whoever has told you it is acceptable to have is mistaken. Your carb will fuel for one boost level only, as you know, you DO NOT have the option to vary the boost level with a controller like that because your carb will NOT compensate for the varying boost level.

Pick your boost level, set your carb up. In car boost control is for the uninitiated.

:smokin:

Trevhib

08-11-2009, 10:09

Just had a look at your car pics in your profile. There's plenty of that silicone pipe crap in there you could do away with. I still think you should minimise the pipework (no B/V, no D/V, no in-car circuit) and retest it. That way you can eliminate the possibility it's anything to do with that lot. You may as well, you've come this far.

Maybe it's not that though. Have you tried swapping out the AEI with a known good one and the other thing that came to my mind was possible cracked turbo exhaust housing.

Btw, nice seats and good luck with getting the gaskets sorted, that might do it.

Mart

08-11-2009, 10:14

Actually its not. Whoever has told you it is acceptable to have is mistaken. Your carb will fuel for one boost level only, as you know, you DO NOT have the option to vary the boost level with a controller like that because your carb will NOT compensate for the varying boost level.

It will if the enrichment circuit is working correctly/modified accordingly.

Slim

08-11-2009, 10:14

Slim

08-11-2009, 10:15

It will if the enrichment circuit is working correctly/modified accordingly.

:wasntme: :agree:

Mart

08-11-2009, 10:16

Slim

08-11-2009, 10:22

I think it could be!
But the pressure test which was mentioned several times should point it out.
Which gasket was missing? Top or bottom?

bottom.. but i think i tried reversing them in the mean time.. but ddnt help...il get one today and see if it helps.. i hope it does. but im skeptical cos 5psi is alot to lose from there :S

Slim

08-11-2009, 10:23

And given that the vacuum pipes will be pressurised when on-boost, and thus not collapsing, I can't see how having silicon hoses in situ is gonna be the cause/make any difference to the boost spike problem.

THANK U!!! even tho i stil changed the pipe anyhow! :sad2:

Trevhib

08-11-2009, 10:32

pls read prior to this post... done all that..:sad2:

I have read every post, but in patches as the thread has developed, so I may not have remembered exactly what's been done because I don't review the lot every time I come back to it. Also, there's a fair amount of waffle in this thread and it's not always clear what you have and haven't done, nor whether you've made changes en-masse or in isolation (i.e. the quality of the feedback is patchy).

Perhaps it would be useful to those who are trying to help you, if you now re-listed, using bullet points, everything that you've changed, including whether it was for a known good item, removed it entirely in order to eliminate it, did it in conjunction with other changes, etc etc.

Trevhib

08-11-2009, 10:35

And given that the vacuum pipes will be pressurised when on-boost, and thus not collapsing, I can't see how having silicon hoses in situ is gonna be the cause/make any difference to the boost spike problem.

Mart, it's not the collapsing that's been found to be a problem, it's the swelling.

In any case it would appear Slim has 'changed the pipe'. So it's all good.

Slim

08-11-2009, 10:40

ye i did change the pipe... infact all pipes!!!! but still think that shouldnt be a problem seeing as the my brother and 2 other friends have silicon pipe going to their incar boost. So why should mine have a problem if thers and others dont. But its a good theory. Maybe at massive boosts may have a slight problem.... but not 5psi!! :crap:

anyhow... thanks for the help people... il update once ive tried the gasket.... pray for me peeps lol :coffee:

Slim

08-11-2009, 10:47

wat ive done

*Changed ALL boost pipes (taken d/v out)

*Changed ALL vacuum pipes (currently using 6mm fuel pipe)

*Run boost straight from Turbo to carb (to eliminate intercooler n charge cooler)

*Re-arranged vacuum pipes to many different configurations (even straight from actuator
to carb --- tested wivout any bleed valve/incar boost)

*Tried getting Actuator to get its boost reading from home made boost pipe straight after charge cooler)

*Changed all jubiilee clips

*removed pipe going to o.e boost gauge and blocked other end

* Changed Carb to a different one

* Changed Aei and its position

* Changed carb top wiv another (known working one but alloy)

* Changed Turbo... that has another actuator..

next... putting another gasket under carb... (sorry had to edit again cos i forgot about changing turbo n carb top)

Trevhib

08-11-2009, 10:49

il update once ive tried the gasket

:agree:

And don't discount things just because they seem unlikely. :)

Trevhib

08-11-2009, 10:53

Looking at your list (assuming it's complete), two things....

I'd change the actuator.
I'd change the lobster top for an OE one, and also check the o-seal between that and the top of the carb while you're at it.

Mart

08-11-2009, 16:49

Mart, it's not the collapsing that's been found to be a problem, it's the swelling.

At mediocre boost levels? That's some shady cr8p hosing then, as I've never seen any silicon hose swell under c1j esque boost pressures.

Slim

08-11-2009, 18:56

DONE DONE DONE :D :D

Thanks you guys.... it was the inlet manifold gasket. For the record... im now using incar boost wiv silicon vacuum hosing and its not dropping any more than 1psi... :D

Jimmy_GTT

08-11-2009, 19:35

DONE DONE DONE :D :D

Thanks you guys.... it was the inlet manifold gasket. For the record... im now using incar boost wiv silicon vacuum hosing and its not dropping any more than 1psi... :D

:agree::agree::agree:

Trevhib

08-11-2009, 20:15

At mediocre boost levels? That's some shady cr8p hosing then, as I've never seen any silicon hose swell under c1j esque boost pressures.

Yep, crap. You do know I'm not referring to boost hoses don't you mate. I'm on about the 3mm hose that constitutes many an actuator circuit and has been a known issue within the club for the last decade...