ctm/ms motorsport drag cam [Archive]

markey b

07-10-2009, 01:11

does anyone have any specs on these?

i've debating either fitting, or selling it, but would like to know a bit about it, what i'd gain on my setup etc

Scoff

07-10-2009, 01:17

I don't think it was particularly suited to only drag racing, not really lairy enough for that. Close to the later variation of BP285, if not the same.

markey b

07-10-2009, 01:28

293 degree's rings a bell, if that is correct, i dont know :confused:

Ian S

07-10-2009, 01:38

It's just a 285 at 110°.

markey b

07-10-2009, 01:40

what could it change on my car, i dont want to loose torque as my car makes pretty good torque as it is (256lb/ft)

i've heard that the valve spring seats would need to be lowered to stop the springs coilbinding

Ian S

07-10-2009, 01:51

what could it change on my car, i dont want to loose torque as my car makes pretty good torque as it is (256lb/ft)

That's a lot of torque. Don't you already have a Mike Spencer engine? Won't that already have that cam in it?

I forget what they found to be the difference to the 285 @ °112°.

i've heard that the valve spring seats would need to be lowered to stop the springs coilbindingNo more than any other Piper 285.

Ian S

07-10-2009, 01:53

Never the less, I had my seats lowered and longer firmer new springs fitted.

markey b

07-10-2009, 02:12

James5

07-10-2009, 09:14

yeah i've got engine number 2 apparently, but it still has a std cam in it, i know the engine is high comp, but i've got a really good 'drivable' powerband and dont want to loose it, or torque by fitting the cam

Mark, let me find my R&R printout for when i did it @ 16psi at Track n Road in essex as I had MSM engine number 9 with this cam in and used the VNT also not sure if high or standard compression though - would assume he done all his engines High Comp

James5

07-10-2009, 09:18

OK Just found the Track n Road printout (bit of any etcha sketch printout as i had a few probs, overfueling due to the 27.5mm venturi and 140 main and water injection caused damping of the spark) but still she done the following:
16psi
197.7bhp, @7065rpm
207.8lbft of torque
Revved to 7880

I am sure GTTnutter or someone will have the video link of it

(After the rolling road the water injection was dumped and so was the 27.5mm carb)

allanr5gtt

07-10-2009, 10:50

does the cam have any stamps on it? as i have msm engine no3

markey b

07-10-2009, 14:46

i'll have a look, i know it came out of the engine that was from goobies white (then black) 5, H***HRK, but i'm not sure if biggs had it fitted at mikes before we got the car

allanr5gtt

07-10-2009, 19:42

i also have msm engine no6

are the number the order they was built or the spec they was built to?

Ian S

07-10-2009, 20:17

The order.

ROB C2GTT

07-10-2009, 20:42

Well i have engine number 1, i was always led to believe that the cam was infact a 285? It was timed to 112degs when i got it, it was only when i rebuilt the engine that mike said to time it at 110degs which i did. I cant say i noticed a massive difference in the engine? still pulled very well! I was just looking at my read out from track and road which was with the cam at 112degs. I got 231.4bhp@6510rpm and 214.1ftlb@4882rpm.

markey b

08-10-2009, 00:28

thats what i'm worried about, i dont want my torque to drop, my car made 217bhp but 256lb/ft torque on the last dyno (can of worms i know) but 3 diff dyno's have been consistant

Ian S

08-10-2009, 00:54

Were any of those three Track and Road in Rainham, Essex?

That VNT you have there, if it's the same one I think it is, was tested on a couple of cars before it found it way to Biggs.

It was delivering more 'get up and go' than the ones that Mike got to replace it with. We were all a bit disappointed that the latter ones lacked what the first one gave.

TD kept insisting they were all the same, but we thought the first one had a bigger turbine. Didn't measure it though.

Ian S

08-10-2009, 00:59

Changing to that cam isn't going to take away all that torque. It may well change things a bit but as we don't know what cam you have not even a guess can be made.

I think Bu$hy had the 285 @ 110° and we know how well that engine worked, 247bhp and, I forget exactly, but about 235ft lbs at Track and Road.

Mike found that backing off the timing using the TDC 'slider' gave more power but less torque. Made the car faster but less fun.

Maybe yours has advanced timing?

Woznaldo

08-10-2009, 01:42

does anyone have any specs on these?

i've debating either fitting, or selling it, but would like to know a bit about it, what i'd gain on my setup etc

In the interest of shared factual knowledge for the club, why don't you send the cam to Andrew Cooke and let him measure it? Yes, you'll have to pay for postage but at least you'd know for sure what you have and we'll all have the info for any future questions.

Completely your choice of course.;)

Ian S

08-10-2009, 02:13

Or just go to the RTOC cam wizard

http://www.rtoc.org/cam/

and type in 285 @ 110° and compare it to 285 @ 112°.

Woznaldo

08-10-2009, 03:27

Is it definitely a 285? I thought that was part of the dilemma?

Ian S

08-10-2009, 12:39

The MSM cam was a Piper 285 at 110°. There's no uncertainty about that.

There might be an uncertainty over whether Piper actually ground every one to that spec!

If it's the MSM cam it ought to be stamped MSM.

Andrew Cooke

08-10-2009, 13:12

the new piper 285 'ultimate' is a normal 285 but at 110deg. ie if you order a piper 285 today it'll be identical to a MSM cam.