View Full Version : Old Smokey
The old lump is in and running like a good-un :) Not that smokey at all really. Paul B has just finished welding the jacking point and it's ready to MOT next week :smokin:
I might just tempt fate and buy a track ticket for nat day .................................
Did the crank trigger time up ok ?
Yes all fine Chris .Bolted the pulley trigger setup on the new/old lump and away she went :) Started first time .I've binned the idle vale and adjusted the throttle plate so it's open a bit but it still needs a tad more .Going to put a bleed valve in the boost gauge pipe feed to act a 'choke' .I can operate that from the cabin .I know it sounds a bit daft but the idle valve is a real pain as you know .
I'm now able to get on a bit with the Adapt development fingers crossed .
Had a good look over the old lump and caps 1 & 2 are misaligned to the block ,also the end float is **** ............................Bigger, better plan is forming for the rebuild .
I have got horrendous clutch judder :cry:Only in first , all other gears it's fine .This is just pulling in and out of the garage ,but the engine nearly leaps out the back .I'm hoping it'll go away once it's had a run ...............The clutch is only 1k old and looks fine ................
Is it hydraulic ? all bled up OK ? just guessing mind :)
Yes it's hydraulic ,all engages fine and dandy .Reverse is fine as is 2nd,3rd etc ....I can pull off in 2nd no worries .......
Still does it after a few sneaky blast round the block :confused::confused: 2nd gear starts and it's fine all through the box .
Will not have 1st at all without the extremely violent shaking .Reverse is fine as well .1st is 3.36 reverse is 3.55 so if anything it should be worse in reverse if its contaminated ??
Paul ,book me in for the MOT asap please ,I want to give it a good run out .
did you swap clutches or was that the one on the old engine...
if son, might just be a bit of surface rust on the plate .....
see how its goes or if it beds in with some miles..
It's the old clutch off the last lump but it was new 1k ago .
Still does it after a few sneaky blast round the block :confused::confused: 2nd gear starts and it's fine all through the box .
Will not have 1st at all without the extremely violent shaking .Reverse is fine as well .1st is 3.36 reverse is 3.55 so if anything it should be worse in reverse if its contaminated ??
Paul ,book me in for the MOT asap please ,I want to give it a good run out .
you can have 12 o clock today if you want.......
I haven't had time to finish the underside .Do you think it'll be OK ?
:cool: and the Gang !
I'll be down in a bit ,I'll put the towing eye on first though and mayhap the rear cover ........
:agree:
But what a Rodney :laugh:
It helps if you do up the lower bellhousing bolts innit tho :o
Still was very easy to correct with it up on the ramps .All Mot'd and ready for action .Cheers Paul ,hope your head feels better soon :cry:
well , I am back and feeling better...LOL..cheers..
Good to know she is sorted,your number plate lights are bright, I can see them from here...LOL...
you know you want a ramp, don't you...LOL....3 phase.....DO IT....LOL
Good to know she is sorted,your number plate lights are bright, I can see them from here...LOL...
They must be cause they're in a drawer in the garage :laugh:
The new lump is a bit smokey but hey it's working .
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z110/cleetav6/image7-8.jpg
Why are you having a prob with the idle valve Lee, Its a synch?
Not for me it isn't Dave .It's always been problematic .Been running with the throttle plate slightly open and a ' leak ' in the boost pipe and it starts and runs and idles so it's something less to worry about .I'm only using the car for fun these days :laugh: well sometimes it's fun but never boring .......
Where you been at then ?
Not for me it isn't Dave .It's always been problematic .Been running with the throttle plate slightly open and a ' leak ' in the boost pipe and it starts and runs and idles so it's something less to worry about .I'm only using the car for fun these days :laugh: well sometimes it's fun but never boring .......
Where you been at then ?
Well if you just leave the valve in place and dont have it connected (power wise), the car will still idle at 1050 there abouts.
You shouldnt have a problem, Ive done loads...One output to one side 50hz, one output to the otherside (50hz inverted). Set it to open loop, then just fiddle with the max and min duty gains and coolant temp gains till it sits where you want it to.
Ive been relaxing, bored of talking about cars now. Getting old :D
Spunkey misses you :cry:;)
I've slapped the DV next to the throttle now so nowhere for it to go .It works for me .Next on the list are bigger injectors .The turbo is being run in at 10lbs until after nat day .
she'll be skipping round Mallory before you know it.......
you could put a diamond on your number plate lights, like the bat-sign then shine into the sky when you need help......LOL
Spunkey misses you :cry:;)
I've slapped the DV next to the throttle now so nowhere for it to go .It works for me .Next on the list are bigger injectors .The turbo is being run in at 10lbs until after nat day .
Lol, have you seen his Delorean Turbo vid? It does 0-60 in like, 10 seconds.:sad2:
dave, lee's idle valve was defective so it didn't get done in the mapping - lee if you can find a worker then I can send you over some common settings for it if you want to set it up and twiddle the settings ? it'll help cold running too.
That might involve buying a new one so no thanks :laugh:
I've tried 4 old ones and they are all ****e ........
I'm never in any hurry to get away anywhere so it sitting for a while doesn't hurt .
Lol, have you seen his Delorean Turbo vid? It does 0-60 in like, 10 seconds.:sad2:
No, not seen that vid .He hasn't mention it on raoc .I had a nose round Robs car at wsr .
No, not seen that vid .He hasn't mention it on raoc .I had a nose round Robs car at wsr .
Oh the comedy..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViF3YfNqkfM
dave, lee's idle valve was defective so it didn't get done in the mapping - lee if you can find a worker then I can send you over some common settings for it if you want to set it up and twiddle the settings ? it'll help cold running too.
Weve got some working operational settings for the ISCV on his original map (from my old GTA with Adaptronic). Like you say, must be the valve or wiring.
valve was sticking I think, lee will remember better :)
valve was sticking I think, lee will remember better :)
Wack em with a hammer, I kid you not! One of mine is playing up at the mo, quick tap, back to normal.
Best to rob the same unit of a newer n/a car like a Clio that hasnt had 25 years of oily hot boost going through it.
but we iz profesionalz :D
but we iz profesionalz :D
Use a professional hammer then, duh :rolleyes::D
Wack em with a hammer, I kid you not! One of mine is playing up at the mo, quick tap, back to normal.
Best to rob the same unit of a newer n/a car like a Clio that hasnt had 25 years of oily hot boost going through it.
Yes. If I give it a damn good slap it stops idling at 2500........I'm not going to get out at the lights and bitch-slap it every time though ......
Gone back to having a idle valve again .Chris ,can you send me the tweaked figures for it please :confused:
Gone back to having a idle valve again .Chris ,can you send me the tweaked figures for it please :confused:
Every GTA will be different, as its not running closed loop. Cam timing, wear, turbo size, idle bypass screw, throttle plate position, looseness of the engine, exhaust backpressure all affect the amount of air going through the engine at idle. On a closed loop system, this is all irrelevant as the ecu just alters the valve position to the target RPM, on your open loop system it doesnt. Copy Petes old settings and then fine tune from there.
All the settings in lee's previous files (pete's ?) were garbage, IMO. Look like they'd been plotted with an etchasketch.
All the settings in lee's previous files (pete's ?) were garbage, IMO. Look like they'd been plotted with an etchasketch.
Don't know what Lee had then. Mine (Pete's) basically went from 1100rpm below 30c, then sat at 850 above that. A couple of other GTA's are running this and idling fine.
Basically in the open loop Base idle value table, all 12's up to 30degs (or higher if you like) then ramping up to 17 for the rest of the table.
Overall control, min was 9, max was 100, 20 extra effort after cranking.
But even all this is academic because it still depends if your idle fuel map is actually sorted, and your ignition timing at around idle.
Lee's actual map is good, or was on the old engine, hopefully so on this one too :)
It's all good so far .Had been out testing the higher injector amp setting ,just blown the doors off some big fat Clio v6 and it stalls at the roundabout :laugh:
Start stop start stop It didn't want to idle but ran fine ,no bogging down as previous .
Got home ,left it for a few mins then got a log of the stall .10 mins later it's fine .I've put an idle valve back on .Wiil see how it goes from cold in the morning .
One issue with the turbo though .It smokes from the intake side as far as I can tell through the mirror..Looks like it's burning oil on boost :rolleyes:
Adey aka Ewok
13-09-2008, 21:22
at type of clio do you need a idle control valve for? ive got a fully working 172 one doing nowt here, any good to you?
Cheers Adey .I dunno though .It's a 3 wire Bosch job .Dave ??
.Had been out testing the higher injector amp setting ,
What setting are you on, I was on 1.5a
Yes, Bosch is a 3 wire, I think the 172 unit isnt the same.
What setting are you on, I was on 1.5a
Yes, Bosch is a 3 wire, I think the 172 unit isnt the same.
Upped to 1.9 .Chris thought it might help me to run more boost on the 214 cc .I was getting hesitation at about 10lbs ....It seems to have helped a bit ,12psi and no issues .
I need another 2 A610 jobs .804s ......
Put 3 different idle valves on and they all do nuffink :laugh: Wired in or not ,though the one on now at least keeps it at about 1200 which is OK .
172 unit different, direct into air inlet ....
the V6 is the same as a 21,25,espace........
"try the one of dawny's 21".......touches nose, ;);)
172 unit different, direct into air inlet ....
the V6 is the same as a 21,25,espace........
"try the one of dawny's 21".......touches nose, ;);)
Nope ,it's a stepper motor on that I think .I need to take that off as well as it's sticking and has an even madder idle than the GTA :laugh:
shouldnt have......
PM the reg.....I am close to putting money on it being the same one....LOL..
then , dawny buys a new one, you fit to the GTA, she gets the best of the 3 knackered ones you have,,,
shouldnt have......
PM the reg.....I am close to putting money on it being the same one....LOL..
then , dawny buys a new one, you fit to the GTA, she gets the best of the 3 knackered ones you have,,,
Looks nothing like the GTA one ......Perhaps it's SAS Performance Idle upgrade :smokin:
K516 XBM
SAME ONE.......................
Av Itttttttttttttttttttttttttt
Looks nothing like the GTA one ......Perhaps it's SAS Performance Idle upgrade :smokin:
K516 XBM
perhaps you aint looking under the manifold far enough.....LOL
SAME ONE.......................
Av Itttttttttttttttttttttttttt
Indeed one will not ' Av Itttttttttttttttttttttttt ! '
21 ....Renault
94
GTA ....Bosch
93
Upped to 1.9 .Chris thought it might help me to run more boost on the 214 cc .I was getting hesitation at about 10lbs ....It seems to have helped a bit ,12psi and no issues .
I need another 2 A610 jobs .804s ......
Put 3 different idle valves on and they all do nuffink :laugh: Wired in or not ,though the one on now at least keeps it at about 1200 which is OK .
Your car is certainly strange... What fuel pressure are you running?, and what regulator?
Have you actually checked you're actually getting 12v at the valve? Also, have you deffo deffo deffo checked your using the right wires for the outputs. Also, if you are, tried using different outputs instead of 1 and 2..
Your car is certainly strange... What fuel pressure are you running?, and what regulator?
Have you actually checked you're actually getting 12v at the valve? Also, have you deffo deffo deffo checked your using the right wires for the outputs. Also, if you are, tried using different outputs instead of 1 and 2..
Std Reg and I've got 2.85 bar at idle ......
Just checked again again .....12.88 v on one side ,2.45v on the other as it's idling right now .................. weird just now ....Starting with power wires unplugged it revved right up to 3000 and stayed there .....I still have the throttle plate open a bit so I'm thinking the valve was fully open at that point .
Indeed one will not ' Av Itttttttttttttttttttttttt ! '
21 ....Renault
94
GTA ....Bosch
93
Oh #Bugger#
LOL....ah well, trust you buy a weird 21 Turbo....LOL
Tiny Tim
15-09-2008, 14:09
Not wierd, dizzyless phase 3 pixie magic...
They're steppers on the phase 3 arent they?
No biggie, I replaced the one (had been converted to run a ohase 2 lump) on my 21 for one off a clio... they're pretty common.
Std Reg and I've got 2.85 bar at idle ......
Just checked again again .....12.88 v on one side ,2.45v on the other as it's idling right now .................. weird just now ....Starting with power wires unplugged it revved right up to 3000 and stayed there .....I still have the throttle plate open a bit so I'm thinking the valve was fully open at that point .
Ah i didnt mean are the wires correct in the sheet, I mean have *you* actually put the correct wire to the ISCV, or checked there isnt a break in connection somewhere.
Even if you have sticking valves, playing around with the numbers in WARI should still do something to it while you sit there, if its rev max, or stall. But your still getting nothing, am I right?
Ah i didnt mean are the wires correct in the sheet, I mean have *you* actually put the correct wire to the ISCV, or checked there isnt a break in connection somewhere.
Even if you have sticking valves, playing around with the numbers in WARI should still do something to it while you sit there, if its rev max, or stall. But your still getting nothing, am I right?
Yep, checked continuity and the plug is the std plug .If I play with it in Wari it does alter but never runs correctly so I don't know .Dave M has some really odd figures that seem to sort it on his setup .......................End of the day ,if it starts and will idle at decent revs I'm happy .I haven't gone through all this grief to get it to idle sweetly :burnrubber:
The shakedown for Mallory continues .The crank sensor is getting tooooo hot I think .It's only about an inch away from the exhaust and after some spirited driving it starts to miss very badly .I have wrapped the exhaust locally and also the sensor itself .Might have to fab up a heat shield as well I think .
104
Don't you just love it when that box of ****e throws out little gems :)
Looking to make a heatshield for the crank sensor and looks what I finds on an old 25T-turbo
111
Bent the plate flat and voila :agree:Like it was made for it :smokin:
112113
BRILLIANT..
top job:agree:
Don't you just love it when that box of ****e throws out little gems :)
Looking to make a heatshield for the crank sensor and looks what I finds on an old 25T-turbo
111
Bent the plate flat and voila :agree:Like it was made for it :smokin:
112113
25T Actuator heatsheild, I got's one of them :agree:
Turns out the sensor was too close @ 0.5mm :confused: I moved it away a good 2 mil and it doesn't drop out .But it's worse on a hot start .Somewhere in between will be good .
I think it moves and clips the wheel when close and hot .
Turns out the sensor was too close @ 0.5mm :confused: I moved it away a good 2 mil and it doesn't drop out .But it's worse on a hot start .Somewhere in between will be good .
I think it moves and clips the wheel when close and hot .
the crank sensor should sit approx 0.9mm
It doesn't seem to like being close at all :confused: About 2 mm away seems best ,although it will still struggle to start when very hot .
Got to sort a few oil leaks from the timing cover as well as it's getting covered in oil .......
Not as smokey as this one though
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbq0juIt0QQ
cracking vid......
and look at the crowds back in 1987...when it was a spectator sport for the masses...
good old Murray,soon to Brose's new job
Think it's a F1 support race ....Should be getting the whole race on DVD soon .
Old Whizzo seems to be able to handle the rear end pretty well :cool::cool:
Hi quality mode
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbq0juIt0QQ&fmt=18
It doesn't seem to like being close at all :confused: About 2 mm away seems best ,although it will still struggle to start when very hot .
Is that definately sensor related or something to do with temperature related cranking fuel enrichment in your map?
Yeh it may be cranking fuel ,dunno .I'm gonna get Mr Scoff to fine tune it once the bigger injectors etc are done .It is running the same all the time now ,starts on second turn from stone cold ,doesn't miss .Only had a slight issue at Mallory with it missing coming out of the hairpin with about 5 gals ,put some more fuel in and it went away .
I'll take this one thanks Paul :cool:
228229230
LOL....fiat coupe wins the badge.....LOL
so, that will be one hundred million dollars......:smokin::laugh::smokin:
Fixed ready for heat soak test .Turned end tank 180 ,extra room for pipework .
239
Need to run some ducting from the side vents . Found just the jobs at Merlin Motorsport
240 Small collector @ side vent
241 25cm x 8 cm at the cooler .
Gonna work out expensive at this rate :laugh:
cheers for popping over Lee,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
like its made for the job,well done that man..
:agree::agree::agree::agree::agree::agree:
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z110/cleetav6/IMG_2753.jpg
KINELL,
only just finished my kebab and chips and you have a heatshield and bracket for it....
:agree::agree::agree:
It's meant to be :laugh: 25T turbo shield and a bit of ali with holes in already at exactly the right pitch :eek:
The outlet was getting hot but the core remains cool without any ducting ...
All done :cool: I will need to fit an air temp gauge so I can compare this to the std .
Would a food temp probe type unit be good enough ?? I can't get the Std Renault unit on the throttle body to read correctly in Adaptronic for some reason .It worked before but seems to have gone wrong .Saying 80c + from stone cold ..
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z110/cleetav6/IMG_2823.jpg
TOP JOB LEE....
hope your happy with it, looks a neat job too....
:agree::agree::agree::agree::agree::agree:
It'll ' PING ' when she's done as well , just set the desired temp :laugh::laugh:
I can compare the two setups .Should really plumb in another boost gauge pre coolers to check drop ...............
277278
Had another test day at Bruntingthorpe yesterday .
Big thanks to Scoff for finally getting the Adaptronic sorted :smokin:
The 2nd test days figures were taken with the car as it is now but running on the std renix with big turbo @ a bars boost ......
There's a lot more to come I feel as I'm only running 12 psi on a std turbo with 214 cc injectors .Next stage is 300bhp capable turbio and 330 cc.
Figures coming out now are very good .These are of course subjective but all the figures were taken on the same equipment at the same venue over three events .
So a level playing field for once .
I've yet to see the official results but old JIL is avin-em-all 1b1 :laugh:
Only thing close to her is a 50 grand supercar with 350 bhp;)
Yesterday's results JIL
0-60 5.8s
1/4 14.4 @ 98
0-60-0 10.4 Std brakes ds2500 grooved front and rear discs .
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Results from test days 1 & 2
BHP (Corrected) At Flywheel
Alistair Stripp GTA Atmo 158.5
Simon Taylor GTA Turbo 202.6
Justin Black GTA Turbo 170.0
Lee Crowston GTA Turbo 191.8
Tony Law GTA Le Mans 202.0
Joe Salama A610 265.9
Mark Garner Clio V6 227.5
Simon Gamblen Renault 21 Turbo 211.8
Paul Rombaut Renault 21 Turbo 188.0
Steve Kentish Renault 21 Quadra 213.6 (225.9 boosted)
PERFORMANCE 0-60 (Best Run)
Alistair Stripp GTA Atmo 7.6s
Simon Taylor GTA Turbo 6.7s
Justin Black GTA Turbo 6.9s
Lee Crowston GTA Turbo DNR*
Tony Law GTA Le Mans 6.2s
Joe Salama A610 6.0s
Mark Garner Clio V6 6.9s
Simon Gamblen Renault 21 Turbo 7.3s
Paul Rombaut Renault 21 Turbo 7.5s
Steve Kentish Renault 21 Quadra 7.1s (6.8s boosted)
* 2nd Gear Failure
PERFORMANCE VMAX (Best Run)
Alistair Stripp GTA Atmo 136.2mph
Simon Taylor GTA Turbo 143.6mph
Justin Black GTA Turbo 143.9mph
Lee Crowston GTA Turbo 128.8mph
Tony Law GTA Le Mans 142.5mph
Joe Salama A610 153.1mph
Mark Garner Clio V6 135.4mph
Simon Gamblen Renault 21 Turbo 139.1mph
Paul Rombaut Renault 21 Turbo 126.5mph
Steve Kentish Renault 21 Quadra 135.4mph
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RAOC BRUNTINGTHORPE RESULTS 30/11/07 CONDITIONS DAMP
NAME VEHICLE COLOUR 0-60 0-100 VMAX BHP 1/4 Mile
Kevan Slater Clio V6 255 Blue 6.9s 19.5s 125.7mph 240bhp 16.3 @ 91.2
Lee Hodson Megane 225 Red 7.2s 17.7s 133.8mph 229bhp 15.8 @ 94.1
Andy Mackenzie Wintle A310 V6 Yellow 7.6s 23.3s 129.2mph 136bhp 16.3 @ 86.1
Lee Crowston GTA Turbo White 6.8s 15.5s 135.8mph 214bhp 15.1 @ 98.3
Keith Walker Venturi 400 Red 5.3s 11.2s 168.6mph 364bhp 13.8 @ 109.3
Chris Hawes Delorean Silver 9.2s 24.7s 117.2mph 130bhp 17.4 @ 80.3
Mark Garner Clio V6 Silver 6.7s 18.0s 135.8mph 230bhp* 15.6 @ 92.5
Simon Gamblen Renault 21 Turbo Red 8.3s 19.3s 142.0mph 212bhp* 16.3 @ 91.4
Andy Holt Spider Yellow 6.1s 13.8s 145.4mph NT 14.8 @ 102.1
Martin Guard Venturi 300 Silver 6.0s 13.8s 115.9mph NT 15.6 @ 100.0
* Previous Test
NT = Not Tested
I haven't confirmed this with the manufacturers but the figures for the unmodified cars would seem to suggest a correction factor of approx 6% to 7% for the power figures due to the wet surface.
For example that would put the 400GT output closer to 390 bhp
good results, and for not much boost, well done :cool:
I'm really pleased .After the last year it's good to actually get out there and use the car .
It even sat in M1 traffic jam for an hour on the way home with just one little burp :laugh:
I'm sending the big turbo to Adam to repair then I'll be up for you to sort the fine tuning on the bigger set-up .
I also spoke to the guy with the 610 conversion , he's now up for having another go at sorting his I think .You may get a mail ..........
as ever, no problem, just shout when you need some more mapping done.
looking at those trap speeds you've done well in comparison to the rest, quickest renault by far, besides the yellow spider, assiming thats a renault spider. forget 0-60's, 1/4miles, they're all grip and driver related, the real tell-all is the trap speed.
how heavy is your car with you sat in it ? I could estimate rwhp from that and your 1/4m trap.
I meant to get it weighed but didn't get round to it .....I weigh 90k :ashamed::laugh:
Kerb weight is 1180 kg for a GTA Turbo.I reckon I've lost about 40/50kg stripping .Tank was about 2 galls off full .
Yellow Spid is not std btw ....It's that Turbo f4rt
Looking good Lee, its always good to see a GTA going well, and with more to come, hopfully ill get my ass to a meet nxt year (if i have a car running;))
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/jonnyboost/th_MOV01977.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v196/jonnyboost/?action=view¤t=MOV01977.flv)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/jonnyboost/th_MOV01975.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v196/jonnyboost/?action=view¤t=MOV01975.flv)
where where them clips filmed..? is it local to us?
Bruntingthorpe airfield, Lutterworth , just south of Leicester .You can hire it for test days which means you can time and log :cool:
Think the club has to be MSA registered to do events .Insurance cover etc .....
2 mile runway about 65 yards wide + a bit of a track .
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