02 reg Clio 172 poor idle

My Clio 172 developed abit of a poor idle recently, its got very lumpy now and when you rev it it has abit of a lumpiness before it finally revs on (does while driving too)

I done a full service on it recently and even before then it done it abit but since doing the sevice its got worse, i checked ther inlet manifold gasket and thats fine sealed up well. I stuck it on my brother machine at work and only issue that showed up was brake pedal switch so changed that anyway

I'm looking as poss a throttle body fault next as i believe the idle control valve is built into this (fly-by-wire throttle), would anyone else do same or recommend something else to do first?
If i do change the throttle body does it need coding to the ecu or can it be swaped over with a spare one?

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Originally Posted by Markey Mark (BD)

My Clio 172 developed abit of a poor idle recently, its got very lumpy now and when you rev it it has abit of a lumpiness before it finally revs on (does while driving too)

I done a full service on it recently and even before then it done it abit but since doing the sevice its got worse, i checked ther inlet manifold gasket and thats fine sealed up well. I stuck it on my brother machine at work and only issue that showed up was brake pedal switch so changed that anyway

I'm looking as poss a throttle body fault next as i believe the idle control valve is built into this (fly-by-wire throttle), would anyone else do same or recommend something else to do first?
If i do change the throttle body does it need coding to the ecu or can it be swaped over with a spare one?

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Mark i would be changing the TB as you say the later models have ICV built in, not sure if coded though (i doubt it for TB)

I was thinking of the throttle body but wasn't too sure if there was a common fault on them which caused lumpy idle, i did have a look on a few of the Clio owners clubs and i'm amazed at what some onf them said :sad2:

I'll have look on ebay for a throttle body now

Can anyone confirm if it needs coding or not? I know some VW's and Audi's do but not sure with the Clios one

Just try cleaning it to begin with if you haven't already.

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Originally Posted by Tony Walker

Just try cleaning it to begin with if you haven't already.

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I was under the impression they are sealed unit's?? I could be wrong been a whilse since I have seen one.

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Originally Posted by Tony Walker

Just try cleaning it to begin with if you haven't already.

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Is the idle control valve located on the underside of the throttle body?

I will give it a go cleaning it out if you can remove it, i have just bought a throttle body but can always keep it spare if cleaning works

ICV for sure (well, maybe :D ). Known for gunking up over time.

Fairly sure Steve to the Big had a similar problem with Sarah's 172 a couple of years back, and that turned out to be an ICV in need of some cotton-bud loving.

Fly by wire throttle won't have an idle valve, it's a built in as an adaptive.
Take it off and clean where the throttle butterfly is first.

Soz, didn't read it was a fbw type. Ignore that then :D

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Originally Posted by Matt@CodeRedMotorsports

Fly by wire throttle won't have an idle valve, it's a built in as an adaptive.
Take it off and clean where the throttle butterfly is first.

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Just been out and removed the throttle body, gave it a good wipe inside both sides of the butterfly.
Put it back on and no difference, i'll give the new one a try when its arrives

Anything else on these engines that can cause an issue?
The vac pips off the inlet looks ok although i may change it to be sure once i can see where it goes (hides under battery)

lumpy up to what rpm mark ? If <2000 then maybe a vvt fault or odd cam timing (use renault tools to check alignment)

does it still have it's original 2x lambdas ? If it's had a de-cat and 2nd sensor removed then it's possible the first sensor is playing up but would have expected that to show up on a scan.

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Originally Posted by Scoff

lumpy up to what rpm mark ? If <2000 then maybe a vvt fault or odd cam timing (use renault tools to check alignment)

does it still have it's original 2x lambdas ? If it's had a de-cat and 2nd sensor removed then it's possible the first sensor is playing up but would have expected that to show up on a scan.

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Its all before 2000rpm mate, if i hold the revs just above 1000rpm it'll still be abit lumpy maybe dies out about 1500rpm if i can remember, if i blip the throttle it has a quick bit of lumpiness then smooths itself out
Cambelt was done a while ago and felt fine when i bought the car so not too sure it being camblet timing but could it be the dephaser pulley playing up?

Its totally original still has cats fitted, i plugged it in earlier and it come up with no faults except the brake pedal switch which i changed

Dephaser makes noises if really faulty (sounds like a diesel) might be worth checking the solenoid that controls vvt. Checking the cam timing is worthwhile, but you will need locking tool and some new bungs.

Wheres the solenoid located that controls the vvt, is it under the rocker cover?

I'll see if i can fine someone locally who has the tools to check cam timing, will see if its been thrown out or not

Anyone friendly near you with a clip machine?

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Originally Posted by Markey Mark (BD)

Wheres the solenoid located that controls the vvt, is it under the rocker cover?

I'll see if i can fine someone locally who has the tools to check cam timing, will see if its been thrown out or not

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It's in the cam cover near the spark plug hole nearest the timing belt cover... Hope that makes sense??? Has a black plug vertically in the top of it.

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Originally Posted by Matt@CodeRedMotorsports

Anyone friendly near you with a clip machine?

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I'll find out if someone near me has one

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Originally Posted by Matt@CodeRedMotorsports

It's in the cam cover near the spark plug hole nearest the timing belt cover... Hope that makes sense??? Has a black plug vertically in the top of it.

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I think i know where you mean mate, it take it is abit of a pig to remove and clean if thats possible or is it case of replacing if feel its faulty?

They can get a bit of granulated cr4p in them, they are about 3 or 4 inches long. Bit of brake cleaner and then swill it about in some clean oil to help it prime up. Free to check and no parts to replace when playing with it....

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Originally Posted by Markey Mark (BD)

I'll find out if someone near me has one

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If you can find someone, see if the car is due a software update. I remember the 197s had to have it done months after they were released.
Also what fuel you been using? 98 recommended.

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Originally Posted by Matt@CodeRedMotorsports

They can get a bit of granulated crdp in them, they are about 3 or 4 inches long. Bit of brake cleaner and then swill it about in some clean oil to help it prime up. Free to check and no parts I replace when playing with it....

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Ok cool will give that ago in the week.

I been using normal unleaded in it with a super every now and then, should be using super i know :o

No worries, also make sure it's got a genuine coil fitted as the non gen ones are a poo fitment for the connector to plug onto resulting in poor running.
Does the car have the 'gold' terminal tdc sensor and loom fitted, identified by a blue connector and tdc sensor.
The phase 2 onwards cars are very sensitive on emissions and can bring on the light for very minor reasons, even a light blow around the cat fire rings.....ask Ricardos! Hehehe!

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Originally Posted by Matt@CodeRedMotorsports

No worries, also make sure it's got a genuine coil fitted as the non gen ones are a poo fitment for the connector to plug onto resulting in poor running.
Does the car have the 'gold' terminal tdc sensor and loom fitted, identified by a blue connector and tdc sensor.
The phase 2 onwards cars are very sensitive on emissions and can bring on the light for very minor reasons, even a light blow around the cat fire rings.....ask Ricardos! Hehehe!

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I believe its all genuine stuff still on there as well as the tdc, not been replaced in its life but will check it all to make sure its genuine stuff

Wierd thing is the dash light has only come on for the brake pedal switch, nothing else.

Just a quickie.... What spark plugs did you fit at service?

Sorry for all the questions, but Internet diagnostics can be difficult:laugh:

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Originally Posted by Matt@CodeRedMotorsports

Just a quickie.... What spark plugs did you fit at service?

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Can't remember the code but there the NGK Iridium ones that are listed for the Clio, they were fitted in the engine previously too so swaped like for like

Mas airflow metre..?
Coolant temp sensor?

I would of thought the tb would be coded although it might have to have a throttle adaption.

There might be a procedure to reset the values without using diagnostics,

Have you tried the onboard dash diagnostics..see if any fault codes Come up?

Sorry i ment TB not coded I'd of thought

I had a similar issue on my 182 turned out to be a lambda sensor the one pre cat

The sensor did throw up the management light, have you had a look on cliosport.net?

Theres no air flow meter and throttle's arn't coded but coolant temp probe is a valid suggestion. It's the one sensor that drives the ECU and dashboard gauge so if the dashboard gauge reads sensible then it won't be the sensor.

Regarding spark plugs Mark, NGK PFR6E-10 are the only ones that should be used on the Clio 172/182

Does it also have genuine Renault HT leads?

Coolant temp sensor doesnt show up on diagnostics either

Scoff, temp gauge reads perfect so sounds like the sensor is ok. Good to know about throttle body too, it might not be that but i have bought one off a very low mileage car so will swap that over and try. Also got a vvt solenoid on the way too to clean up and fit in, will give cleaning the priginal a go but least i have a spare just incase

Ricardo, there the exact plugs i fitted so all good on that front :agree: HT leads are all genuine Renault although jot sure how old, if it was a lead gone down then i would of presumed i would of had issues higher up the revs but it runs fine then

Matty J, i have had look on Cliosprt and various Clio sites but was abit shocked at some of the answers, some said its how the car is at that age may aswell live with it! :laugh:

They often idle a bit crap when cold, they don't have enough cold start enrich from factory. Some of the RS tuner maps correct it. But I think your saying its much worse than a slight ropeyness.

You can test the VVT solenoid out of the car by sticking it on 12v. You should hear it click and the valve should open. (operation is obvious when you look at a removed one)

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Originally Posted by Scoff

They often idle a bit crap when cold, they don't have enough cold start enrich from factory. Some of the RS tuner maps correct it. But I think your saying its much worse than a slight ropeyness.

You can test the VVT solenoid out of the car by sticking it on 12v. You should hear it click and the valve should open. (operation is obvious when you look at a removed one)

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Yeah its alittle more than just abit of lumpiness, engines actually moving due to the lumpiness its worse when cold too but still not ideal when warm either if you drive at around 1000-1500rpm you can feel it.

I will pull the vvt solenoid out and giving it a clean and test, as say do have a good spare coming so at least covered that way if it is buggered

Assuming you've already checked compression incase of bent valve, etc ?

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Originally Posted by Scoff

Assuming you've already checked compression incase of bent valve, etc ?

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To be honest i've not done that as its been a fault that has slowly got worse not just happened so couldn't imagine it being a valve. When i first got car it was almost perfect, had slight lumpy idle when cold but as you say they were common for that

I've checked all other basics already, think will give the vvt solenoid a go first then work from there if it doesn't sort it

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Originally Posted by Scoff

They often idle a bit crap when cold, they don't have enough cold start enrich from factory. Some of the RS tuner maps correct it. But I think your saying its much worse than a slight ropeyness

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My 182 does it from cold too, pretty sure Matt said to me a while back that Renault have a revised map that deals with it. TBH I'm used to it, it clears out after a couple of minutes although I have been tempted to get a 98 RON map for the RS tuner.

Rich, if you wanted to do the 98 map, just borrow my RS tuner.....and I think I have the right map on disc anyway, and if I remember I might have the launch map too.

RS tuner is locked to chassis number, no ? It was the last time I used one.

Yep, but you can buy a licence from Henk.

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Originally Posted by Matt@CodeRedMotorsports

Rich, if you wanted to do the 98 map, just borrow my RS tuner.....and I think I have the right map on disc anyway, and if I remember I might have the launch map too.

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Do you have the revised Renault map? As for the 98 map i'll look into that in the next month :)

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Originally Posted by Matt@CodeRedMotorsports

Yep, but you can buy a licence from Henk.

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Ah, I thought you were somehow doing it without the licence :)

Have you done a compression Test before other avenues? Low compression tends to miss most at idle.
Valve seat could be worn/burnt and/or rings worn. Not the most likely but easily checked.

Is there a particular cylinders it's most lumpy on? They are usually pretty lumpy on idle.

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Originally Posted by Scoff

Ah, I thought you were somehow doing it without the licence :)

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If I could crack it somehow I'd be quids in, was looking into trying to become a RS tuner dealer, but I doubt it somehow.

Having read this thread properly now, I would definitely be inclined to say coil pack. Swap it out with a known good one and then test. They do break down with age.
I'm sure you know a lot more about these than I do, but a friend had a clio cup with the exact same issue and the coil pack fixed it instantly.

Right bit more of an update, i have fitted and tried the following parts

-good used throttle body
-good used vvt solenoid
-new coil pack
-new HT leads

all made no difference what so ever :(

We thought it had air leak on the inlet manifold so sorted and stll no difference

Stuck it on the c0 machine and the lambda readings are reading very high but as the garage mentioned (mates garage) this can be down to the fact the car is running rough on idle
I have also noticed while stationary the engine still likes to have an irratic cough right up in the revs, right up to 3000rpm

My mates garage are reconing air leak but i can't find one anywhere
They poss mentioned maybe injectors are leaking/failing :confused:

I know people have mentioned doing comp test but this fault just doesn't sound like a failed cylinder (low comp) as every now and then you hear it fire on all 4

Its getting alittle worse now, to point i'm not actually wanting to drive it as sitting in traffic is alittle shakey

Is the canister purge valve leaking take it off and block it up? Did the garage have a look at the pre cat lambda sensor readings?

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Originally Posted by Tony Walker

Is the canister purge valve leaking take it off and block it up? Did the garage have a look at the pre cat lambda sensor readings?

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We plugged yet another diagnoistic computer in and no faults, lambda didn't show fault but on the c0 manchine lambda is reading around 1.2-1.3 (hope makes sense)

I'll have alook at the purge valve to see if its leaking, thats down in the drivers side wheel arch isn't it?

There's light at the end of the tunnel, its now running better :D Its not perfect but its better!

I swap the injectors over to a spare set and its now idles abit better, it drives a hell of alot better so a big improvement :)
I'm wondering due to the knackerd injector if its killed a spark plug or sooted up the lambda sensor and thats why its still not quite perfect on idle, i will be swaping for new set of plugs again and double check the lambda sensors to make sure

Fingers crossed it'll idle perfect soon