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Hi guys,
My 172 runs an old SAAB T3 turbo, its developed a slight oil leak onto the rear housing somehow, even tho it doesnt smoke!??
Anyway as there is no play in the unit I assume that the shaft and core is probably ok!
Has anyone had any luck re-building a T3? I've tried a few T28's and never had any sucsess!! If so does anyone have any tips or links to step by step guides?
could ask clee,im certain he had a go not sure what the results were though
I rebuilt it with a 360 thrust etc .It's fairly easy just mark it all up for balance .The 360 bearing needs some holes to be drilled and tapped and if water cooled these will break into the water ways .This is normal and not a problem I'm told .I don't the water circut anyway .
It's on the car now as my very expensive professional rebuild unit fecked off the day before Nat day :mad: I spent nigh on £400 getting that done and it was just a whole world of pain and went back twice....and is still not right ..
It's down with Adam L now ,which is what I should have done in the first place :sad2:
My old DIY T3 survived a recent Scoff remap and is running around a bar at the mo :cool: and still not:smokin:
thats a co-incidence, I started fitting a 360deg bearing to mine yesterday. I don't have a water core, just drilled and tapped for M4. Looks like I need to remove the spring from the back plate that holds the normal 270deg bearing in, otherwise easy stuff.
ashy just beware, some of the t3 shafts use left hand thread on the compressor nut. I say only some because the cosworth ones I've done in the past have been normal thread. someone else might shed some light on this.
Yes, mine was a normal right hand thread .I've got two old T3 in the garage .I'll see what they are .
I think mine might just be strange then. It is a stage 3 turbine wheel (& shaft) so maybe that is the difference. all the normal T3's I built for my c1j were right-hand come to think of it.
great thanks guys, sounds like its worth a go then?
Where do you get the kits from? Is there a re-build guide on the web?
I haven't said you could have it yet!:D
You didn't need too mate, possesion is 9/10ths ;)
http://www.turboforce.co.uk/
Really helpful ,even sent me some undersized bearings FOC when I discovered my shaft had been reground 5 thou .
Not much to it really .
Mark the compressor ends nut relative to wheel and shaft .Lightly clamp the turbine wheel in some soft jaws or with a gloved hand and undo .Remove comp wheel .Remove 4 bolts from main core and tap the ali plate off .This plate will have a great big star washer type thing that pushes a bush on the 270 thrust bearing .
Then there is a little ring ,not a circlip as such, just a split ring ,this is very flexible and should pop off easily with a little screwdriver to splay it open a bit,there's a similar bigger ring on the turbine end .
Now you can get the bush off and the main spindle out .The 270 bearing is located by two little split pins and will just fall off .
There is a rubber seal surrounding the steel core that houses the main bearings ,this will just lift out .
You will need some clip pliers with very tiny points to remove the outer circlips from both sides of the main housing ,the bearings will drop out .There are two circlips inboard of the bearings to remove as well .
That's it stripped ....clean up ,inspect and reverse procedure with new bits innit .
http://i5.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/c0/7e/5585_1.JPG
Thanks Clee,
what about these kits,
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Turbo-Rebuild-...3A1|240%3A1318
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Garrett-Turbo-...3A1|240%3A1318
or this one, has 360 degree thrust bearing.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Garrett-T3-T4-...3A1|240%3A1318
You will have to drill and tap the core to fit the 360 .Give Turboforce a call ,they do the same style kits ,I've used them and they were good .
cool will do marrow thanks :)
right kits arrived :)
THose clips are tny, where do you get tny pliers from?!!
I use a pair of jewlers screwdrives! plus you only really need to take the outer clips out to swap the bearings - I atleast inspect the inner ones, if they look ok I'll leave them be :ashamed:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashy
I ground down some std little circlip arms to a needle point :agree:
Cool, i'll modify the set i've got!! Gona go pull the turbo off. The guy at turboforce said to check the rear groove on the shaft to make sure its a good fit!
I also use the same technique, I used to have a mini set of circlip pliers, but I broke them. Those inner clips can be extremely fiddly, it takes a while to be able to pop them in instantly. Ashy, if you've got any wear what-so-ever on the shaft ring land then it'll leak. If that's worn though, it may mean the bearing housing is too.... Worst case though, don't want to scare you too much:D.
Right turbo is off and i've removed the housings. Whats the best way to mark the wheel, nut and shaft up? We've got a vibro engraver at work so I guess that would be a good way to do it... Do you bother to mark the shaft, I guess that as its a single start thread its not necessary!
Also do you just grip the triangular nut on the exhaust wheel in the vice and losen the nut on the comp wheel? any tips on how to do it, or is it just brute force?
I measure the amount of shaft protruding past the nut with a depth mic and also scratch a line on the end of the shaft relative to nut and wheel .This will get it close enough for DIY job .
The turbine wheel's blades have a flat area that creates a diameter that you can clamp in some soft jaws .You only need a little bit of pressure to stop it turning as the comp wheel nut should not be on tight tight .
I found that you create more damage trying to get a good hold on the other end nut .
Thanks marrow, do you mean clamp on the exhaust wheel or the comp wheel?Quote:
Originally Posted by clee
Exhaust wheel .It's fairly sturdy :agree:
yo, i'm just trying to get the shaft back in, whats the trick to compress the rear metal seal so that it drops in?
sorted, its all back together :) all seemed in good condition inside, shaft wasnt worn or scored!! Only thing that seemed slightly slack was the rear seal, guess i'll soon find out if its any good!!
Was the seal slack before the re-build marrow?? Sounds like that was the culprit!:agree:
Duno, its hard to tell mate, its like a little piston ring, when its fully compressed I assume there shouldn't be a gap or if there is it should be a very small gap. But when its all back together you can see how much its compressed? so you cant measure the gap?!?
Maybe I could put the seal in on its own and measure the gap?
Well its done and re-fitted :)
run it for a few mins in the garage and seems to be OK, will give it a run out tomorrow and fingers crossed its fixed!!
I'm sure it'll be fine :goodJob:
If not I have a couple of old GTA T3s lying about that are reasonably priced :coffee:
Smashing marrow. Give it death:agree:
Marrow :confused: Marrow :confused: What's that all about
Being a bit further South and a tad more refined I'll say Smashing Courgette , have at it :agree:
How much power are you getting out of your 172 turbo, as that turbo is pretty much maxed out at 250bhp.
Just shy of 240 at 7psi i think.Motoscope in Northallerton have pretty good rollers. That turbo seems great on the road, hardly and lag and goes like stink. IMO no need for any more power unless for dragging.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveAVT
aye like Mat says 238bhp and 230lb/ft at 7psi.
Its a great turbo, makes the car really responsive on the road! Gona do some testing today, fingers crossed :agree:
You could easily get hold of a Cosworth 4wd wheel and housing to fit onto that. You may need the shaft assembley balancing up again, but it'd only cost about £30 or so.
That wheel looks a very similar size to the Escort RS one.
yeah, but then i'd need it re-mapping, and tbh I just want to use it as it is for now and enjoy it... I haven't done that many miles in it since building it so I'm gona leave it as is until I get bored ;)
Hardly ever happens after project completions :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashy
Nice one mate and good thread. :)
Been out and about in it, done about 40 miles, gave it a bit of boost too :cool:
Not a sign of smoke and the oil leaks stopped :agree: Job done.
Just hope it lasts!!
Thanks for everyones help!
good stuff :cool: just off into the garage to put my core back together and get it back on car :)
True, but as Adam said, in future if you wanted to, you could fit a 60 trim Cosworth wheel and cosworth exhaust housing (in fact just fit a 2wd Cossie T3) and there will be no extra lag at all, and will be good for 300bhp, it would even make more power on the same boost you are running..Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashy
That flapper valve wastegate on the Saab/Renault/Volvo T3 really does choke things up a bit, its only just over 2" outlet and the wastegate gas output bangs straight into the housing.
That's what Adam built for me and it certainly spooled up pretty quick and at around 2250 :cool: It's back with him at the minute to put right .It got cooked .........
I'm debating on whether to use that again on the new engine or go with something else so am hanging 5 on it for the time being .
The only nice other turbo to use on the GTA with a bit of jiggery pokery would be a GT28RS or R. Still good for 300bhp, going to spool up faster, and has the decent sized exhaust downpipe outlet. You'd need to get a T3 to T28 adaptor.
No real point speccing any turbo for much over 300bhp on that engine. Id stick with the Cossie T3, but it would be nice to see someone using the Cossie 0.48 ex housing and a decent downpipe.
I've got a 0.48 on with the std unit at present .I will probably get the cossie unit rebuilt in any case ,I'm sure I can flog it on if I don't use it .
I'm looking at the downpipe etc now and am off to see a guy next week about some big pipe .
Not a Cossie 0.48 you havent. The outlet you have on your wastegate is only just over 2", no point hooking a much larger downpipe up to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by clee
The cossie 0.48 is a 2.75" outlet, larger wastegate valve, and its angled and flowed into the main exhaust path, unlike the Renault one which is a crappy flapper that bangs intoa solid wall of iron, and will take a 3" straight onto it.
Cossie housing..
http://www.teamlorenz.com/images/90%...otus%20016.jpg
Ahhh rite-so :)
I was not going to keep the wastegate housing .I was looking at a vband type thing like old GT blinger had fitted but without the screamer pipe .
This sort of thing ....
http://www.atpturbo.com/root/releases/release103105.htm
Buy that...cut, rotate 180, and shut it again..
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Cosworth-4wd-E...|39:1|240:1318
Its cheaper to get the correct housing in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by clee
I think I have some 0.48 cosworth housings if you wanted to play lee. I also have an old T04B cover, wheel and backplate that will be good for over 300hp (going cheap) if you wanted to build a budget unit for the new engine :)
just to add, finnished off my own turbo's rebuild today, thankyou to Adam L for sorting a 360deg bearing kit. it now works fine again with no shaft play. I melted 2 270deg bearings last year - the back's of them in particular. guess that was too much thrust for them to deal with.
Got a new Cossie 2wd .42 Compressor if anyone wants to swap for a .48 4wd Compressor ;) :)
Cheers Scoff .I will take you up on that :)
I'll get Adam to rebuild the bits he has there and then I can play about with the hot end ..
Ah, all back up and running now, Chris? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoff