help getting it started please

So its all in one problem I am waiting for my starter motor to turn up which is coming tomorrow I tried to bump start it but no luck. I have fuel I have power from the coil pack and it does catch a spark every now and then but seems like its at the wrong time? I was thinking faulty Tdc sensor but I was reading on the internet http://www.acuravigorclub.com/timely...timely0704.htm about a cyl sensor could this be the problem does ny engine even have one ? So far I have learnt a lot from this project and don't think its over yet any help greatly appreciated.


thanks
ryab

http://www.acuravigorclub.com/Timely...Timely0704.htm

There's no cylinder sensor. The ecu expects cylinder#1 to be at TDC when it's actually there. This is all set manually when the engine was built, and/or the timing belt fitted.

Are your leads correctly numbered to each cylinder, and is your dizzy cap fitted correctly - I.e not 180 degs out? Not sure this is possible with an F7P?

there is no adjustment on my dizzy. the leads i copied off a picture i found on the internet hoping they where right really so they could be in the wrong order. i was thinking it was a bad earth somewhere but i re done all the earths today the only one i am not sure about is the engine i have got it earthed on the bracket that you hoist the engine up from. do you think that will be enough or should i earth the block.

if the leads where in the wrong order it will still fire every time right just out of time i bumped it ten time and i only got a actual bang i suppose twice the rest of the time it just drew fuel and nothing.

Will know more when my starter motor arrives just to eager to get it running

wouldn't bother trying to bump it not if its its first start. I have an earth to the block, head and gearbox just to be sure:D
check that the leads are the right way around.

i may earth the block and the box too has anyone got a photo of there leads that are defiantly correct. i am pretty sure its something silly as i have fuel and power to all the right place will know more when the starter motor comes in till then its a bit of a mystery to me .

Firing sequence is 1-3-4-2, Dizzy will be pointed @ No1 when the engine is at TDC.

Dizzy leads are all right but does someone no if the starter motor lead on the loom big connector should be a live or a earth. I think earth as it has not current going through it but I am wondering if I have messed up. the little connector has power when key is turned

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Originally Posted by beast

Dizzy leads are all right but does someone no if the starter motor lead on the loom big connector should be a live or a earth. I think earth as it has not current going through it but I am wondering if I have messed up. the little connector has power when key is turned

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The big 13mm nut on the starter is a direct connection to the POSITIVE battery terminal. The push-connector is the 12v kick from the ign key that engages the solenoid. The starter is earthed through the casing.

Starter should have 2 power feeds one from battery and one from alternator both go to same place on starter.

Stop messing around & see what it does once you can start it (or not :D ) off the key.. messing around trying to start it without will just keep you chasing your tail.

so the starter motor lead on the loom big one has got to go on the starter motor plus a straight live from the battery. i have both lives going to the loom constant and switched. got dark will have to wait for tomorrow night now :) it will start just teething problems

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Originally Posted by 5teve L

Stop messing around & see what it does once you can start it (or not :D ) off the key.. messing around trying to start it without will just keep you chasing your tail.

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:agree:

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Originally Posted by SCHWARTZ

Starter should have 2 power feeds one from battery and one from alternator both go to same place on starter.

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No- the take off from the alternator isn't a feed to the starter motor....think about it, the only time the alternator is working is when the starter is not in use (engine running).
EDIT: But yes, there is a lead that goes battery + to starter and starter to Alt

Starter has two big cables going to it and one little one, job done.

Starter motor in and turning over nicely but I have no spark there is power going from the coil pack to the dizzy but no power coming out . The rotary arm is spinning need some help please

SO you've got spark from the coil pack? But not out of the dissy to the leads?

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Originally Posted by Dave Reed

SO you've got spark from the coil pack? But not out of the dissy to the leads?

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tested the lead from the coil pack to the dizzy and it had power but nothing from the dizzy to park plugs. brand new leads brand new rotary arm tried swapping back to the old parts and still nothing any ideas ?

If you have spark just before dizzy your fault is with the dizzy and rota

does anyone know how much power should be at the coil pack and how would you go about tracing the cause of the loss of spark? i have fuel so thinking its not the ecu.

As James has said if you have spark at the coil then its your, king lead, dizzy cap or rotor. Put the king lead on the coil and arc it to see if the lead is ok if so I'd be checking cap and rotor or that some how the cam is timed up wrong.

tbh i dont really no what i am doing been watching a few you tube vids ;) and going to have a proper look tomorrow as i was putting my multi meter on the coil lead and deciding it had power so should be working but i now realize its suppose to be a pulse of power and may not always register. which i was getting this problem of having power sometimes and not others i was thinking bad earth (un educated eyes ):crap:. but i will get the test lamp out tomorrow and work my way from the spark plugs back. when testing the two leads that plug into the coil pack from the loom what should i be testing for ie should the two pin plug be a constant live a pulse live or a earth?

Thanks for all the help could never of got to this stage with out all the help from the people on here

The best way to see if you've got a spark from the coil is to remove the long lead (at the sissy end) hold it with a rag or something and put the exposed part of the lead to something earthed (engine etc) then crank it over.

You'll soon see if its sparking..

On the coil you'll have a constant live and an earth..

Have a read of this to better understand what it's trying to do

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/ignition-system3.htm

If you've got no spark I'd look at te triggering device for the coil (tdc sensor)

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Originally Posted by Dave Reed

The best way to see if you've got a spark from the coil is to remove the long lead (at the sissy end) hold it with a rag or something and put the exposed part of the lead to something earthed (engine etc) then crank it over.

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Best way to zap yourself.

Put a spark plug in the end of it and rest it on an earth. Holding a plug lead while cranking is just plain stupid.


^^Yet another hard learned lesson :laugh::wasntme:

So I have no spark from the coil pack. Going into the coil pack I have power and earth but nothing coming from the two other wires which I am guessing they are the pulsing wires from the tdc sensors. So I am thinking tdc sensor what do you lot think ? Also tested the sensor and getting nothing there

If you can hear the injectors clicking(very quiet) while craking then the tdc sensor should be ok

Running bike carbs so got not injectors

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Originally Posted by DaveL485

Best way to zap yourself.

Put a spark plug in the end of it and rest it on an earth. Holding a plug lead while cranking is just plain stupid.


^^Yet another hard learned lesson :laugh::wasntme:

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Hence why I said hold it with a rag or something ;) :coffee:

Anyway it keeps you awake a little zap every now and then.

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Originally Posted by beast

So I have no spark from the coil pack. Going into the coil pack I have power and earth but nothing coming from the two other wires which I am guessing they are the pulsing wires from the tdc sensors. So I am thinking tdc sensor what do you lot think ? Also tested the sensor and getting nothing there

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So have you got power to one side of the tdc sensor?

Have a look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ws8EVQ6NjE

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Originally Posted by Dave Reed

So have you got power to one side of the tdc sensor?

Have a look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ws8EVQ6NjE

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The sensor is working got a new one as well and ideas what it could be?

What ECU you using?? is it a phase 1 demobilised valver ECU.. Strange this is GaryS had the same issue's on his valver turbo conversion when running the valver ecu not sure if he found out what it was:scratch:

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Originally Posted by James5

What ECU you using?? is it a phase 1 demobilised valver ECU.. Strange this is GaryS had the same issue's on his valver turbo conversion when running the valver ecu not sure if he found out what it was:scratch:

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Yea its a phase one ecu I fort if it was the ecu it would not run the fuel either ?

I have well and truly run out of ideas

One last idea when doing the wiring the I missed out b1 Clio brown plug to b7 ash tray plug as I don't have a lead going to this plug on my campus to connect it to. So what is at b7 a and where else could I connect it

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Originally Posted by beast

One last idea when doing the wiring the I missed out b1 Clio brown plug to b7 ash tray plug as I don't have a lead going to this plug on my campus to connect it to. So what is at b7 a and where else could I connect it

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What colour is the B7 wire on the clio loom?

Like a peach colour

Sorry b1 on the Clio loom is peach which is the one I missed our and it goes to b7 on the five but I don't have anything in b7

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Originally Posted by beast

Sorry b1 on the Clio loom is peach which is the one I missed our and it goes to b7 on the five but I don't have anything in b7

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I am sure B7 is like the oil pressure switch so doubt is the issue, think you need to make sure you have power / ign live's to the ecu and the coil and check all earth's,

Basically anything black earth it, anything red live or ign live it. Is the fuel pump activating

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Originally Posted by James5

I am sure B7 is like the oil pressure switch so doubt is the issue, think you need to make sure you have power / ign live's to the ecu and the coil and check all earth's,

Basically anything black earth it, anything red live or ign live it. Is the fuel pump activating

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Is the fuel pump priming at all?

On the wiring diagram it says its ignition module to tachometer. I have fuel and the constant and switched lives are working all he earths are attached

just thinking could it be a relay ?

Do these have a map sensor at all? if so what's happend to that? and how have you plumbed it in?

yea it has a map sensor took the suction from the carbs for it matt at code red said to do this.

https://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=14659 this is where i took my wiring diagram from and everything else seems to work apart from the spark.

also on this https://www.rtoc.org/boards/attachmen...9&d=1296297505 its saying the lead i missed out is to the coil pack could this be my problem do you think?

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Originally Posted by beast

yea it has a map sensor took the suction from the carbs for it matt at code red said to do this.

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Cool just thought I'd ask.. Just trying to rule some stuff out :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by beast

also on this https://www.rtoc.org/boards/attachmen...9&d=1296297505 its saying the lead i missed out is to the coil pack could this be my problem do you think?

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If you've missed a lead of the coil then I would most likely say thats your issue.

yea but i got a campus so it has no tachometer to put this lead to so i am a bit stuck

I am going to check all my relays today make sure there all good and then possibly sit and sulk as I have not got a clue what else to do :scared:

rev counter mechanical on the campus ? Pretty sure that the one to tap into for the coil, but it was a few years ago since I did the wiring on mine... If it had a coil before, it must have a way of picking the signal up ;)

When I get a free 5 mins mate, I'll pop over.
Matt.

No rev counter at all on my campus. Does the wire feed the signal to the rev counter or take the signal back to the coil pack. Basically if its not connected would your rev counter not work or would your car not spark

Does any one know what the big black relay in the Clio relay box runs

So I took the black relay out went to the local parts shop and got told it was a dealer only part put it back in and the car started first turn run for a couple seconds and cut out then would not run again. So I am thinking depending on what that relay does that could be the problem or a bad earth or live at least I know it will start

Fuel pump relay?

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Originally Posted by JRP

Fuel pump relay?

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not sure its showing loads of resistance so could do with replacing either way

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Originally Posted by beast

not sure its showing loads of resistance so could do with replacing either way

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Its not the Clio fuel pump relay that's one of the brown ones in fact all the relays should be brown swap it around with one of the others:agree:

hopefully whatever it does/is its the cause of all my problems :) or i may have to re do the wiring again to make sure every connection is spot on

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Originally Posted by beast

hopefully whatever it does/is its the cause of all my problems :) or i may have to re do the wiring again to make sure every connection is spot on

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Swap it around with one of the other relays :agree: and see what happens

its the only one of its kind otherwise i would and its a dealer only part so going to get ripped off