Innovate LM-1 over LC-1

Just after some advice really, been looking at the LM-1 wideband meter as recommend on here but when i have looked into it i see there is also an LC-1.

Now the LM-1 comes with a hand held plug in meter but as far as i am aware no dash display but can plug into a pc also.

Now the LC-1 has no hand held meter but does have a dash display and can also be plugged into a computer.

Now this is the question, is there any real differences apart from this as i can see the LC-1 being more useful as when your setting your carb up you would use the computer to download the AFR maps but your have a heads up display to tell you if your rich or lean where as the LM-1 does not have this, once you have finished setting up with the LM-1 you have no display to tell you whats happening.

Is this correct or am i missing something here?

Yep you are missing alot, the LM-1 is a tried, tested and reliable bit of kit where as the LC-1 is full of little faults, I had 1 and it never worked from new, got an LM-1 had it connected and working in 10mins.

Yes the LC-1 has the advantage of a gauge on the dash but you can get the XD-16 gauge that plugs into the LM-1 to give a gauge on the dash.

Bottom line the LC-1 maybe be cheaper and have a gauge as standard but it is far too unreliable and even innacurate in some cases.

Get the LM-1 far better and don't be tempted by an LM-2 either, there terrible

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Originally Posted by Os8472

Yep you are missing alot, the LM-1 is a tried, tested and reliable bit of kit where as the LC-1 is full of little faults, I had 1 and it never worked from new, got an LM-1 had it connected and working in 10mins.

Yes the LC-1 has the advantage of a gauge on the dash but you can get the XD-16 gauge that plugs into the LM-1 to give a gauge on the dash.

Bottom line the LC-1 maybe be cheaper and have a gauge as standard but it is far too unreliable and even innacurate in some cases.

Get the LM-1 far better and don't be tempted by an LM-2 either, there terrible

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Really, surprised its not acurate as you have the same lamdad sensor in the exhaust and your only reading what the sensor tells you, you plug your computer into this to get readings the same as the LM-1, surprised its not as acurtae when the readings come from the same place.

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Arrows

Really, surprised its not acurate as you have the same lamdad sensor in the exhaust and your only reading what the sensor tells you, you plug your computer into this to get readings the same as the LM-1, surprised its not as acurtae when the readings come from the same place.

Thanks.

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It's not the lambda that's the prob it's the lc-1 being crappy made by some Tawian blind man , the db gauge is a simple gauge and nothing wrong with that as to be honest it is basically a volt gauge and I think that is made in Holland. You will have the same prob with the xd-16 if used with lc-1 but the xd-16 will be fine running with the lm-1. As peeps have already said go lm-1 matey accurate and blood good:)

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Originally Posted by James5

it's not the lambda that's the prob it's the lc-1 being crappy made, the db gauge is a simple gauge and nothing wrong with that as to be honest it is basically a volt gauge. You will have the same prob with the xd-16 if used with lc-1 but the xd-16 will be fine running with the lm-1. As peeps have already said go lm-1 matey accurate and blood good:)

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Have you got one?

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Originally Posted by Arrows

Have you got one?

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I have had the lc-1 with db also had an xd-16 with lc-1 buy ended up with an lm-1 which I no longer have. I highly recomend the lm-1.

Any locals got an LM-1 i can see at all?

Depends if you consider Bury St Edmunds local.

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Originally Posted by Os8472

Depends if you consider Bury St Edmunds local.

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Thanks was hoping for someone might have one a little closer to me.

I take it we do not get a RPM output on our LM-1 just he AFR reading is this correct so you have to look at what RPM your doing and make a note of the AFR reading?

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Originally Posted by Arrows

I take it we do not get a RPM output on our LM-1 just he AFR reading is this correct so you have to look at what RPM your doing and make a note of the AFR reading?

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Correct - best way is to get a co pilot ti makes notes matey:)

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Originally Posted by James5

Correct - best way is to get a co pilot ti makes notes matey:)

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OK thats going to be a right pain then as i know for sure i will not be able to do that very easily, has anyone managed to do a mod so they can use the RPM unit you can get for the LM-1?

Could you not use the inductive clamp with RPM converter which is this,

Clamp-
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/x...8&cat=0&page=1

RPM Converter-
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/x...4&cat=0&page=1

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Originally Posted by Arrows

Could you not use the inductive clamp with RPM converter which is this,

Clamp-
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/x...8&cat=0&page=1

RPM Converter-
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/x...4&cat=0&page=1

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I used the lma2 part aswell matey but did the mod in the article section to get a decent Reading wasn't to bad when played back on the pc after recording but the live Reading was crap.

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Originally Posted by James5

I used the lma2 part aswell matey but did the mod in the article section to get a decent Reading wasn't to bad when played back on the pc after recording but the live Reading was crap.

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MOD? got a link?

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Originally Posted by Arrows

MOD? got a link?

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Here you go John https://www.rtoc.org/boards/showthread.php?t=6031

I hope the copy and pasted link works as I ha e done this on the itouch :eek:

I have the lm1 and the lc1. No probs with the lc1. It seems ok for me, wired correctly and does what it says on the tin! I do know that some people have had issues but untill i do i'll reserve judgment.:D

Now thats gone and blown it, one person for the LC-1 and one against the LC-1, if all you get with the LM-1 is a hand held computer then i personally would prefer the gauge and the plug in the computer option as i am not going to be going along looking at the hand held computer where as i will only get back and plug the computer into the LM-1 like i would with the LC-1 but i would use the gauge from the LC-1 also.

God i hate choices like this.

OK, I'll shift your opinion again - the LC1 were nothing but a nightmare when the club did their group buy a few years back. I bought one, I'm an electronic engineer by trade and could not get it to work reliably. Sent it back to the retailer. I fitted 4 others for customers at the time, 3 had issues with them. The retailer the club used later announced that there had been a problem with them and that they had aparantly been corrected, but I don't know if I believe that since I keep seeing issues with them every now and again.

If you want something to data log with then look at the Zeitronix stuff, I think a couple of guys here use them with no problems. Or if you are hooked on innovate then LM1 or LM2 as recommended by the others.

Thanks so it could have had the early issues sorted, maybe worth giving them a call to see.

Thanks.

Tech edge is another one I have, they do some nice compact things these days that come with a gauge, mine's a bit of a dinosaur now but don't have a bad word to say about it, unlike Innovate stuff!!

im also looking into an afr dash gauge/sensor set-up..im thinking of going for the AEM UEGO < seen> here

does anyone have one of these fitted? they seem very popular in the states!

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Originally Posted by Scoff

Tech edge is another one I have, they do some nice compact things these days that come with a gauge, mine's a bit of a dinosaur now but don't have a bad word to say about it, unlike Innovate stuff!!

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I'm glad you said that Chris as Emerald mentioned they've had quite a bit of success with the techedge and didn't comment on the LC-1 ;). I think I might go down this route as I don't need a gauge and at £138 it's quite well priced.. I'll be going for the 2j1 budget jobbie found here... http://trigger-wheels.com/store/index1.html

i have the techedge 3b1 with lcd screen so far so good .:agree::agree::agree:

http://trigger-wheels.com/store/index1.html

Do you get a computer software programme with both systems?

I've got a techedge V1.0 :D

and a 'modern' techedge 2A0

So do the other system plug into a computer for logging?

When you say the club group buy of lc1 do you mean the one's sold in the club shop as I purchased one about a year ago and have never got round to fitting it. I'm guessing now it'll be out of warranty and 4 out of 5 people having issues doesn't look good.
Thanks Andy.

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Originally Posted by Arrows

So do the other system plug into a computer for logging?

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Yeah you get innovates logworks software which to he honest Is quiet good the rpm part plugs into the the lm-1 and all then connected to a lappy or pc for either live Reading or recorded playback

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Originally Posted by James5

Yeah you get innovates logworks software which to he honest Is quiet good the rpm part plugs into the the lm-1 and all then connected to a lappy or pc for either live Reading or recorded playback

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Sorry i meant on the other makes people have mentioned, sorry i was aware you get logworks with the LM-1 setup, sorry should have perhaps been more clear when i asked.

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Originally Posted by Andyhot

When you say the club group buy of lc1 do you mean the one's sold in the club shop as I purchased one about a year ago and have never got round to fitting it. I'm guessing now it'll be out of warranty and 4 out of 5 people having issues doesn't look good.
Thanks Andy.

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Might be worth having a word with the manufacturer. 12 months is a minimum. The sale of goods act states that you must have a reasonable amount of use over a reasonable period for certain goods. Ie if you buy a tv and it packs in after 14months, then you could claim on not having a working product for a reasonable length of time. TV's should last longer!!

Well hopefully it will be ok.
Just hoping that if mine is one of a bad batch they won't just say well you should of tested it within the warranty period.
Thanks Andy.

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Originally Posted by Arrows

Just after some advice really, been looking at the LM-1 wideband meter as recommend on here but when i have looked into it i see there is also an LC-1.

Now the LM-1 comes with a hand held plug in meter but as far as i am aware no dash display but can plug into a pc also.

Now the LC-1 has no hand held meter but does have a dash display and can also be plugged into a computer.

Now this is the question, is there any real differences apart from this as i can see the LC-1 being more useful as when your setting your carb up you would use the computer to download the AFR maps but your have a heads up display to tell you if your rich or lean where as the LM-1 does not have this, once you have finished setting up with the LM-1 you have no display to tell you whats happening.

Is this correct or am i missing something here?

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Have you actually tried Google'ing LM-1 & reading up on the spec? It has its own built-in real-time display.

Pretty sure I also went through most of this on your previous thread from the other night...

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Originally Posted by Mart

Have you actually tried Google'ing LM-1 & reading up on the spec? It has its own built-in real-time display.

Pretty sure I also went through most of this on your previous thread from the other night...

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Yes i have looked up and seen the LM-1 i looked at the manufactures site, the display is on the hand held meter on the LM-1 where as the LC-1 has a gauge i am aware of this and i am also now aware that you can get a gauge for the LM-1 as well but what i wanted to know was as per the question is they only difference one has a gauge and the other a hand held unit.

I see no point in the hand held meter if all it does is display real time readings as i will not be able to drive and look at that anyway, what i am more intrested in is plugging either into my laptop and getting graphs at certain RPM so i can see if its rich or lean and make adjustments.


Thanks.,

That can be done with the LM-1 as well, and, as has been said, it's a more stable unit than the LC-1.

You can log rpm (amongst other parameters) with the LM-1 by using the LMA-3.

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Originally Posted by Mart

That can be done with the LM-1 as well, and, as has been said, it's a more stable unit than the LC-1.

You can log rpm (amongst other parameters) with the LM-1 by using the LMA-3.

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OK thanks, ill take a look, the thing thats strange is people say the LC-1 is not stable yet you would think it would be a stripped down version of the LM-1 using the same parts but who knows.

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Originally Posted by Mart

That can be done with the LM-1 as well, and, as has been said, it's a more stable unit than the LC-1.

You can log rpm (amongst other parameters) with the LM-1 by using the LMA-3.

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A cheaper way will be to use the LMA-2 with the inductive clamp which is over half the price of the LMA-3 if all your looking to record is RPM.

I always found it useful logging afr against rpm & boost.

Not so sure anyone on here has had success with getting an rpm signal via the clamp method...

My understanding is if you use the LMA-3 you can take a direct feed of the tach output at the AEI!?

Just to through another spanner into the works; I bought an LC-1 with DB gauge on the original group buy.

I didn't get round to fitting it for ages as my car was off the road. Now, bearing in mind I can bearly wire a plug, I managed to get mine installed without any issues and it's been working fine - no problems! :wasntme:

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Originally Posted by Mart

I always found it useful logging afr against rpm & boost.

Not so sure anyone on here has had success with getting an rpm signal via the clamp method...

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Be intrested to hear if anyone has had any luck with the clamp.

I'm not saying that none of them work, nor that they are complicated to wire up, I'm saying that an awfull lot of them didn't work as they should.

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Originally Posted by Arrows

Be intrested to hear if anyone has had any luck with the clamp.

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clamp works fine into the aux box, and some aux box's worked fine with the standard tacho input. It is the LM-2 that has the real faults.

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Originally Posted by Scoff

I'm not saying that none of them work, nor that they are complicated to wire up, I'm saying that an awfull lot of them didn't work as they should.

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Can i ask in what way they did not work correctly?

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Originally Posted by Scoff

clamp works fine into the aux box, and some aux box's worked fine with the standard tacho input. It is the LM-2 that has the real faults.

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Thank you for that.

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Originally Posted by Arrows

Can i ask in what way they did not work correctly?

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No display, stuck at max rich, stuck at max lean, intermittently sticking at some random valve and sometimes responding to a reset, other times not.

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Originally Posted by Scoff

No display, stuck at max rich, stuck at max lean, intermittently sticking at some random valve and sometimes responding to a reset, other times not.

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OK pretty unrealiable then, thanks.